To think people with terminal illnesses should be allowed to choose assisted death?

[ByPoisedOliveMoose]

If someone is suffering with no hope of recovery, shouldn’t they have the right to end their life on their own terms? AIBU to think assisted dying should be a legal option for those with terminal illnesses?

It’s downright cruel if a person is reaching the end of their life anyway.

If I were diagnosed with MND, terminal cancer or similar I’d be taking a rather large dose of heroin before it got to the stage I was dependant of anyone else. Expecting anyone to endure incapacity, pain and fear with no hope of recovery is wrong.

I can see both sides. I live in NZ where it is legal (since a couple of years ago) - it was legalised following a referendum and if I recall correctly, only won by a narrow margin. However, a number of senior doctors disagreed with it and they have some convincing arguments. Now that it is legal, I understand that doctors are allowed to opt out of delivering it if they wish.

There are a huge number of restrictions around it and having all of the restrictions makes me feel better about it, like I know that it isn’t being used in inappropriate circumstances. But it also means that there hasn’t been a huge amount of people using it.

They also think that assisted dying means a doctor injecting you like a vet would an animal.

As it stands now, if someone took an overdose in front of their family, and their family members sat around and soothed them until they died... they would all be arrested and questioned.
A bill about assisted dying is as much about the family as it is the person who wants to die too.

Yes, with animals we always say better a week too early than a day too late.
If an actual human is asking to go a week too early, then it is cruel to deny them that. Best they go when times are a bit better, then spending their very last moments in torture.

For me on the one hand is the legal side and safeguarding. If this is very tight so pressure from 'loved ones' to end life would be detected, then in theory I'm in favour of relieving suffering.

I currently have doubts it will be safe enough to ensure it's the patients free choice.

They should die when they choose to die. Do you think is a good death by being provided with good palliative care in a hospice? it’s not even your true you, you don’t know what is happening to you, you’re stripped of the bit of dignity you have left . You haven’t looked after a loved one dying of cancer if you say that. Do that and then come back and speak Do you know the pain you’re going through by the time you get to palliative stage? all in vain as well, it’s heartbreaking watching it.

Think of how many problems it would solve? Problems that are going to get so very much worse as we have fewer and fewer children. Housing crisis, NHS, pensions. Quality of life is going to tank in coming years, it will be many peooles preference to die. Life will be for the wealthy only.

Quality palliative care is possible, but expensive. Death is a cheaper option. As budgets get tighter, the cut off when treatment or symptom management is offered gets sooner and sooner.

My grandparents are both in their 90s, they don’t have carers and live quite independently. Mentally they are 100% there.

My grandad has various health issues with his heart and I think he knows he’s not long left in this world, but otherwise he is quite sprightly and enjoys his life.

My Nan, has lots of mobility problems and is near enough bed bound. She has had spinal surgery numerous times over the last few decades but it’s a condition that can’t be cured and she is clearly deteriorating. She depends on my grandad to help her move position in bed, and help her to get to the bathroom etc.

As a result of the chronic pain she’s had over the years she’s got a stash load of morphine hanging around the house, bottles and bottles of it, and she says she’s saving it for when she “needs it” - and by that she means end her life.

I think when my grandad unfortunately passes (probably within the next few years), if she is still alive she will overdose herself on morphine.

She said she will 100% not go into a care home and not does she want to be a burden to others (her words).

I know it’s not the same as assisted dying, but it’s just another example of people having the right to choose how and when they want their lives to end.

You only have to read posts from people with a cancer diagnosis- their lives feel precious to them and something worth fighting for, their lust for life is palpable
we need better services not the best offer being death

YANBU. Having watched a parent die in agony from cancer due to sepsis infection, where the pain was so horrendous even the strongest painkillers couldn't make a dent to allow them to pass quietly in peace, I thought at the time we wouldn't watch an animal suffer like this, why are we subjecting those we love to it.
Safeguards should always be robust but there should be dignity and choice in death as there is in life.

Cancer kills some people.

And chemo kills others.

Some people keep fighting on chemo until the very end, desperate to live. And I here for them, completely.

Whilst there is that glimmer of hope, they should be given the best chance they can of fighting it.

But once that hope is gone and they have no hope of regaining any quality of life, the drugs are available to spare them a final few days or weeks of pain and misery. And I think they should absolutely be used.

Dying isn't peaceful. Or dignified. Or quick. Maybe for a lucky few.

A few days or weeks of pain, confusion, distress, end of life agitation, fear, lack of dignity, doesn't sound much to some. "Only a few days / weeks".

But to the person dying, time stands still. They feel every single minute of it. And for the family, watching them suffer, having time off work, having to juggle childcare and other commitments, while sleep deprived as caring around the clock....a few days or weeks is a long time.

Of all the people I have known you have died of cancer (or similar) I don't know a single one who wouldn't have chosen to bow out a few weeks earlier, if the choice was there.

I disagree. In the first place, people have been changing their minds - there has been a massive social shift towards assisted dying over my lifetime. Secondly, it should be discussed openly - the kinds of concerns people may have are not ridiculius and should be listened to to ansure that what happens is the best possible outcome. Thirdly - you are naive if you think it isn't already happening, but people should not have to risk their freedom to support the wishes of the terminally ill.

But in the end, this should be a choice for people. You don't have to agree and you don't have to opt for it. But you also shouldn't have the right to deny me the choice of the dignified death that I choose for myself.

This is a heartbreaking read.

I would say in the context of the current bill being passed through parliament, that the case of this woman would never be considered for assisted dying in the UK.

In her case - I do understand that there are some people that find the emotional pain of being alive far too much to take and therefore would like to end their lives. I do not blame these people if that is what they choose to do. But I absolutely do not think the state should help in cases like this.

She was young. As the article mentioned, people with BPD often find their symptoms much more manageable as they get older. I am convinced that she would not have tried absolutely every single treatment available to get better before making this decision. Including illegal ones (I am referring to psychedelic treatments here but these are probably legal in her country). I would not agree with assisted dying for someone with her condition(s) as I truly believe that she lacked the mental capacity to make the decision for herself. Suicide risk is literally a feature of the condition she had. It makes no sense. It’d be like allowing someone with alcohol addiction to get free alcohol provided for by the state, surely?!

I would not let a family member suffer in such pain, I would end it for them, even if that meant me going to prison

If I get ill, there are various ways that I can end it myself before it gets too bad, no need to rely on the Gov to help

But he could have consented at the point he still had capacity, early on in the disease. I don't think anyone is arguing for the right to die when the patient lacks capacity to make the choice themselves.

Agree. My friend is dying and this painful decline is just so hard for everyone. Made worse by cancer in the brain which is impacting behaviour etc. Only diagnosed 4wks ago.

Stop infantalizing people! The fact that some people with terminal illnesses feel that their life is worth fighting for doesn't mean that everyone shares this view. They have to live the extra time you seem desperate to force upon them, not you.

There was a thread recently where many people acknowledged that they were done with life. Not in a feeling suicidal way, but more a complete feeling. They said they wouldn't mind not living anymore. It is too much for you to insist that these people must go through months if not years of pointless agony in order to live longer when they expressly have stated that they don't want to. We have to believe that humans are capable of having different perspectives on the value of life and that it is totally normal for someone to get to the point where they make an assessment that it simply isn't worth it anymore.

That's not the reality though. When my Nana had advanced dementia they wouldn't force her to take her medication as it was her choice. I can't imagine doctors taking the decision to "end" someone based on a decision they made years ago. It's the stuff of nightmares.

x.com/danny__kruger/status/1884330731872346341?t=x-ghyUpscr9QM8ZL18_8ZQ&s=19

This thread on X is a really interesting overview of the discussions happening in the committee discussing the bill.

The findings of a BMA survey are also interesting:

70% of palliative care doctors surveyed believe the BMA should remain opposed to assisted suicide, whilst just 7% were in favour.

• 54% of doctors surveyed said they would not be willing to participate actively in the process of administering life-ending drugs. Only 26% said they would be willing.

There was a case in the UK a few years back about a lady with BPD, who, after repeat suicide attempts, was allowed to deny treatment and die from the method she chose. The hospital basically made her comfortable, and she died.

My MIL had fantastic palliative care. Can’t fault it. But she knew she was dying, it was literally a given and she wanted to go. She said so, many times. The last 6 weeks of her life, even with excellent palliative care, were brutal. Had assisted dying been an option for her, she would have grabbed it with both hands. She asked for it daily.
At that stage in her illness, the only option for pain relief was massive doses, so she was asleep a lot of the time. But she would wake up, frightened and in pain. For weeks? In the end she was 4 stone when she died. That is not living. It was beyond awful for her, awful to watch and I absolutely do not want that for myself. I wouldn’t do that to my dog.