To think people with terminal illnesses should be allowed to choose assisted death?

[ByPoisedOliveMoose]

If someone is suffering with no hope of recovery, shouldn’t they have the right to end their life on their own terms? AIBU to think assisted dying should be a legal option for those with terminal illnesses?

My dad has dementia, he was highly intelligent etc. People are more than their intellect and their memory. He has emotions, he can enjoy things, he can love, he is still human. I value him and he can be a happy forgetful. Yes, deterioration and death is painful. That is inevitable. He cannot consent to his own death, nor can anyone with severe dementia. That shouldn't really be part of your argument.

Re. "We do need to put sufficient safeguards in..."

What do you propose?

Having watched agonisingly slow deaths from painful cancer, I 100% agree. Let people choose

The issue and legitimate concerns are about coerced dying aka murder.

Guaranteed acress to sufficiently funded and well provided health and social care including palliative support, and properly meeting the financial needs of the elderly, ill, and disabled. Then yes, assisted suicide could be debated as an uncoerced option.

Currently things seem to be heading in the opposite direction, which is concerning. The safety net is being weakened rather than strengthened. That's not ok irrespective of the assisted suicide debate.

Address that. Then, and only then, might it be acceptable to consider legalising the option of assisted suicide.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-45117163

In January a young Dutch woman drank poison supplied by a doctor and lay down to die. Euthanasia and doctor-assisted suicide are legal in the Netherlands, so hers was a death sanctioned by the state. But Aurelia Brouwers was not terminally ill - she was allowed to end her life on account of her psychiatric illness.

Why are these threads being posted repeatedly? You know you can do a search and get everyones opinions then instead of the same one twice a week.

Agreed. Here's how the thread will go:

#1: Everyone should have the right to die, bodily autonomy, wouldn't put a dog through it, my right to choose, not a compulsion to die, if you disagree you must love suffering.

#2: What about coercion, vulnerable people, too risky, will be used as a money saving tool, NHS is broken, look at Canada. If you disagree you want to murder the vulnerable.

Saved you all some time there!

What do people think about this then? Sounds like the young woman was getting medical attention and support but was suffering horribly. What else could/should have been done?

Of course, YANBU. People should have choice over their own bodies.

I have been diagnosed with MS. This is an incurable degenerative disease. It gets worse. It gets worse. Nobody should have the right to tell me I can’t end my life, if I want to end my life. I detest people who have the temerity to think they know best.

They should walk a mile in my shoes; but actually I can barely walk.

I don't think the state has any business killing people.

Ibelieve the proposal is for the meds to be self administered, the doctors would simply supply it.

No one is telling you that you can't end your own life.

I’m not interested in playing semantics.

As far as I’m aware it’s an either something you drink or you press a button to administer a drug to yourself. I’m obviously taking about people with capacity to act in their own best interests.

There are no euphemisms involved in what I said.

Any living being, being forced to endure unnecessary pain is inhumane.

But nobody is saying that?

They are saying they should have the choice.

I have been there at end of life.

There comes a point, be it a few days, weeks, or months when the quality of life is just gone. The person has had enough and just wants to go. Often they get to the point where they can't move, can't toilet themselves, are in pain, can't eat, often need thickened liquids as they cannot cope with water without choking.

They just have to wait for their systems to shut down. Usually once one goes, the rest follow fairly quickly afterwards, but even this final stage can still take a few days.

I don't know anybody who wouldn't have wanted to bow out of all that before it got to that stage, by just being able to drift off to sleep.

In this case, in the time that it takes to get the sign off of two doctors and a judge the person in question would have died anyway.

My friend had good palliative care. Really good palliative care. She spent the last three weeks dying from cancer when she didn't want to be here any more. It was inhumane. No amount of good palliative care replaces being listened to. If people want to die with dignity, they should be allowed to. My dogs have better end of life care than many humans.

Yes assisted dying should be available to anyone terminally ill. I went through this with a family member and was with them as it happened. It’s such a kind way to go on your own terms.

Even great palliative care can be harrowing.

I think there should be a point at palliative care where an injection can be given to send them off to the big sleep.

Why wait until they are shitting themselves and choking on their own saliva and dying of starvation, all whilst getting increasingly confused and terrified?

I strongly agree with assisted dying in cases of terminal illness and would want it for myself.

And I strongly disagree with assisted dying.

This thread is pointless. Everyone is entrenched in their position, convinced they are right, and no one will change their mind.

Oh for goodness sake.

I've been with a relative at EOD.

It was traumatic. He wanted to die, I wanted him to die.

I had the JUST IN CASE meds from the district nurses in the house.

So you think I could and should have just given him then?

I'm not medical. No way could I play this hard and fast with those drugs.

District nurses wouldn't give them him because he's "wasn't at that point", ie he wasn't in huge amounts of pain, the pain he was in was manageable with the morphine which I was giving him.

But you reckon I should have ignored them and just dished out the JIC meds and hoped for the best?

Additionally, don't call it suicide. You're just getting into semantics calling it that.

If I what you are suggesting, and it was labelled as suicide, there are insurances that would not pay out for his dependents. Which would be grossly unfair.

Assisted dying, to speed up end of life deterioration, is not suicide.

I think it should be allowed for the end stage of terminal/severe/progressive illness. I'm thinking of things like MND, which tends to decline acutely and suddenly and has a truly horrific ending. And things like end stage dementia, which leaves people bed bound and unable to function at all (though most people with dementia die of other causes before this). If I had MND, I personally would not want to see out the entire illness. I also work with older adults with dementia, and whilst some people with dementia do live happy, meaningful existences, I'm too scared of living through the opposite end of the spectrum where I have frightening hallucinations/smear poo/remove my clothes, etc. It couldn't really be implemented for dementia though due to capacity. By the point of diagnosis, unfortunately a lot of people no longer have capacity.

Palliative care however needs to be improved. And it's important to remember that people on end of life care can live for years.

I think the issue is we can't implement it safely in the NHS. There is also the risk of pressure and coercion. Disabled people/people with intellectual disabilities I feel would be at high risk of this.

I'm not against it at all in principle, but I think it's very difficult to implement safely in reality.

I was in hospital recently with a woman who had end stage cancer and her pain could no longer be managed; people need to realise that a natural death isn't always the best outcome.