To think that wolf whistling wasn't such a bad thing?

[NovemberMorn]

Joanna Lumley has just given an interview in which she says..."I never minded wolf whistling, I always thought it was tremendous".

She also said... "I think we were a little bit tougher then. Somebody put their hand on your leg, you didn’t feel affronted and report it. You’d give them a slap.”

Do you think she is right?

Let me clear this up for you.

Not all builders and not all men catcall but many do. Please refer to the stats @meh2025 posted.

I assume you didn’t read them.

No, that's not the narrative at all. Firstly no one has suggested all builders wolf whistled. There are men who are the type and men who aren't and those that are can be found in all jobs. The builders who were this type were all ages from the 16 year old YTS kid copying the grown ups to the 60 something. Of those there will have been the odd decent looking 20 something. Of these decent looking 20 somethings there will be the odd one who might check carefully whether the young woman looked 18 before whistling at her. However the insistence by some on here that 'their' builders all fell into this tiny subset of wolf whistlers is not only a bit silly, but impossible to know unless they spent all day every day walking past the site checking who was getting the attention.

Clearly, it wasn’t just builders that wolf whistle, another ridiculous comment!

Almost as ridiculous as @Bbq1 comment that men in her area were only did it to 18+ women.

Why are defending it as “harmless”, it’s sexist and misogynistic.

Why any woman would take it as a compliment, life no idea. Low bar?

Also, no one says it was all men, or even all builders.

Indeed.

Let's discuss this thing and share our experience, maybe we could learn something.

No, your experience is not right, my view of this is the correct moral one.

Ad infinitum.

@aliceinawonderland

There is a suggestion that ALL builders in the 80s and 90s whistled at children ( which means that ALL of them are paedophiles)

Who has said this?

Nope. Nobody suggested ALL builders (not all men here we go again) and nobody has suggested that all builders or men are creepy and predatory.

Those who experienced disgust, terror, upset and revulsion and have dreadful memories of regular harassment simply won't allow anyone to minimise, laugh it off and pretend it was all a bit of a larf or try to slyly insinuate that the millions of girls and women who hated it were all weedy little victims who should have been tougher.

Despite what the OP stated, mllions of us loathed street harassment, and have always loathed it, throughout the world and throughout history.

Women who enjoyed the attention of strange men making noises at them are welcome to that point of view and as far as I can recall, nobody has suggested otherwise.

Not agreeing with the minimisation of street harassment and refusing to pretend it was acceptable, fun or harmless is in no way, manner, shape or form asking women who enjoy strange men making noises at them to reshape anything at all.

This is the just of this whole thread. It’s also very insulting that those of us who enjoyed a bit of harmless flirting have no self worth/are desperate for attention/those guys were probably perverts.

so exhausting

Yet we have not denied the experience of others at the hands of perverts, some of us had a different experience.

Nope. Nobody suggested ALL builders (not all men here we go again) and nobody has suggested that all builders or men are creepy and predatory.

Those who experienced disgust, terror, upset and revulsion and have dreadful memories of regular harassment simply won't allow anyone to minimise, laugh it off and pretend it was all a bit of a larf or try to slyly insinuate that the millions of girls and women (throughout history) who hated it were all weedy little victims who should have been tougher.

The OP literally asked the question if wolf whistling - or as its better known now street harassment - wasn't such a bad thing and tried to minimise invoking, for some bizarre reason, the luxury class beliefs of Joanna Lumley.

So the answer to the OP's question has been robustly answered. Lots and lots and lots of women and children loathe and detest street harassment. And no, that doesn't make them weak.

If you enjoyed the attentions of strange men making noises at you, nobody has suggested you should not.

Not agreeing with the minimisation of street harassment and refusing to pretend it was acceptable, fun or harmless for many women and children doesn't prevent you from enjoying your memories of strange men making noises at you.

But why did you enjoy the attention from men in that way? Surely some at least were unattractive to you?

Didn’t it at the very least make you roll your eyes or think “fuck off”?

I honestly find it interesting to know why you enjoyed it.

that actually the wolf whistle from the 20 something guy on the scaffold wasn’t an innocent bit of flirting, but actually quite sinister, because that 20 something guy was actually a real pervert.

And the wolf whistles from the 40 or 50 year old men aimed at much younger women. Is that just innocent flirting too?

@Nonaynevernomore

Because it was lighthearted and never sexual

Because it was usually a mornin darlin and sometimes a “ looking nice today “

Because they were in their twenties

Because it was a bit of fun when I was also in my twenties

Because I then had my mind on other stuff and didn’t give it a moment’s thought.

💯 agree

Plus, strange men making noises at any passing girl or woman from 13 to 50 is barely flirting anyway, it's just really weird behaviour.

So now we have “they were in their twenties” to add to “it was only to woman 18+”, what a load of nonsense!

if your mind was on other things why did you enjoy it?

And it was sexism and sexual, why else would they do it?

The point is NO MAN should be wolf whistling at anyone.

Some women like bondage and S and M. They don't go round telling people being physically assaulted is fine because they enjoy it.

It was never a 'bit of fun', what is fun about it?

@Nonaynevernomore
Are you calling me a liar?

And yet I believe those who had different experiences!

In 2018 a member of the public made a submission to Parliament on the frightening effects of street harassment.

"I’m submitting this information because as a young women (1980s and 1990s) I know that I was altered by my experience of street harassment, I was fearful when on my own in the street (not just at night). I felt the need to be constantly watchful. I feared harassment could turn into physical or sexual assault and that if it did I wouldn’t get justice. I believe this is still the case for young women today and that unless something is done to change it, nothing will ever change. I also believe that repeated sexual harassment can be a factor in women internalising unhelpful stereotypes.
Summary in bullets
General

• Harassment is pervasive and happens very regularly to many women.
• Some men, and groups of men, seem to consider it acceptable and probably harass women every day for it to be such a regular occurance.
• It is not always intended to be malicious or aggressive but can lead to the target feeling vulnerable, exposed, unsafe and abused.
• The target always feels objectified.
• Sometimes harassment is aggressive, filthy, deliberately abusive and designed to shame women.
• Sometime if you ignore, answer back or politely reject the man’s comments you can be subjected to a torrent of vile abuse. This can feel extremely threatening.
• I cannot count the number of times street harassment has happened to me, it is really regular.
• Comments are often sexual and about your personal appearance.
• Women are often taught to placate people and to not escalate situations, this can lead to serious under-reporting of this problem.
• The very real risk of attack looms large in the problem, this is the background fear in the mind of the woman when they are harassed.

Circumstances

• Some men in vans (alone or in a group) shout out to female pedestrians vulgar comments.
• Men in groups are more likely to exhibit this behaviour.
• Some men who’ve drunk alcohol will make vulgar comments to women.
• Some men harass waitresses and bar staff in a public way.
• Some men will deliberately sit or stand next to you on public transport in order to harass you.
• The more a woman is out in public, the more harassment will happen to you. Therefore it predominantly happens to young women who walk and use public transport, although it can happen car-to-car in a traffic jam (this has happened to me).
• It happens more to young women and school girls than to older women.
• If a woman is on her own her she is more likely to be targeted than if she is in a group. If she is in a mixed group, it is very unlikely to happen.

Locations

• Building sites, football crowds, crowds near busy pubs on match day, lone men outside pubs, men shouting things from cars or vans, on public transport and walking along the pavement."

Consequences:

• Women can feel that they can’t have power in a public space, that they have no option but to accept this as part of the culture. They have to put up with it.
• Many women believe there’s nothing you can do and they try to not dwell on it.
• It can ruin your day.
• If a women already has problems or difficulties in her life, the experiences of being targeted can make her feel worse.
• Women can feel that have to operate by men’s rules in a public space.
• Street harassment is just one aspect of the incessant negative social experiences based on their gender that some women can have to deal with, these can have a significant effect on women’s mental health. Women have higher rates of mental distress.
• As there is no clear and effective way to challenge this behaviour, it can feel like your power and self-determination have been taken from you.

She goes on to list some of her own experiences. It's a good submission, we've all been there.

What a shame some are still telling women to put up and shut up.

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/87801/html/

Yes I am! I do not believe for one minute ALL the men wolf whistling at you were in their 20s. No more than I believe that @Bbq1 experienced women over 18 only being whistled at.

You’ve evaded my question as well, why did you enjoy it?

I answered your question above.

But anyway suffice to say that I never felt intimidated by the builders in the City, but certainly do here!!

They never made me feel lesser or worthless, but you lot have suggested that I must have such low self esteem to want the attention of weirdos.

Thanks for that

I'm off

Did someone suggest that? I must have missed it.

Men who make strange noises at women they don't know are certainly weirdos though. How you feel about their weird, predatory behaviour is entirely up to you though.

@aliceinawonderland

This is the just of this whole thread.

I mean it's not though, is it?

Literally nobody has said that all builders in the 80s / 90s wolf whistled at children. Or that it makes them all paedophiles.

You've just extrapolated that from people saying that it was common place to be wolf whistled at by builders as children.

Common / regular doesn't equal 'all'.

Don't you know you're not allowed have a different opinion or experience, the herd will grind you down and make you start thinking they're right...imagine not being allowed say you didn't mind a wolf whistle and you didn't experience huge discomfort, how dare you, disgrace to women blah blah

The OP asked the question if wolf whistling - or as it is now better known as street harassment - wasn't such a bad thing and then quoted for some reason Joanna Lumley opining that street harassment was great and implying that loathing fearing and detesting street harassment makes you weak.

The OPs question was then robustly answered. Lots and lots and lots of women and children loathe and detest street harassment. And no, that doesn't make them weak.

If however, you enjoy or enjoyed the attentions of strange men making noises at you, nobody has suggested you should not though many have no idea why you would.

Not agreeing with the minimisation of street harassment and refusing to pretend it was acceptable, fun or harmless for many women and children doesn't prevent anyone from enjoying strange men making noises at them. You do you.

Noone said anything about being weak, people are allowed have a different opinion, doesn't make it wrong, and stop with the stupid "you do you", seriously how old are you🤣