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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think life is very different now?

109 replies

CockerMum · 26/01/2025 08:34

Just for context we have no children but are planning to start a family (as in trying now) hence I may be more sensitive than usual to these kinds of comments.
MiL has DH and his brother. She has always made comments about how children (but in particular boys) need their mum until the age of 5. Yesterday she made this comment again over dinner, and I said that life is different now to how it was when she was raising her children and the reality is for many families both parents need to work to pay the bills. I went on to say that DH and I both need to work to pay our bills. Mil said she thinks the government should pay for mothers to stay home with children until the age of 6. I said that is a totally unrealistic policy.
AIBU to be irked at her implication that
a) mothers should stay home, as opposed to fathers (she never mentions fathers staying home although tbh in our case it is more likely DH would cut working hours as I earn more)
b) it is cruel to put children into childcare settings pre school
and
c) boys need their mothers more than girls (obviously she is biased having had two boys in whom she can see no wrong)

How to handle these conversations? I worry that when we have kids she will go on and on about it.

OP posts:
MissDeborah · 26/01/2025 12:35

I don't think she is wrong
The welfare of small children seems to have got lost over the last 20 years.
Children starting school not potty trained, no skills such as using cutlery or dressing , rotten teeth and S&L issues.
MH issues rocketing in young children.
Child care settings such as nursery are not the amazing thing everyone states for under 3s , if you think that you know zero about child development.

The main issue is that as women have wanted/ needed to WOH, the workplace remains based around the needs of men and men are not stepping up to parent their children .

DownThePubWithStevieNicks · 26/01/2025 12:35

ObelixtheGaul · 26/01/2025 11:45

Agree with PP that mother's working is not new, but would add:

Very wealthy families have always farmed their kids out to others. Nannies from birth, governesses, boarding schools. Most of the mothers did not actually work, but it was socially acceptable for them to see their children for only an hour or two a day, and to have little contact for entire terms.

We accept it when the very rich do it, despite not needing to for financial reasons.

Indeed, I strongly suspect the royals, including the Waleses still do this, despite the ‘perfect family’ image. The kids will be minded all day by nannies, fed separately, and brought to parents for a few hours a day.

CockerMum · 26/01/2025 12:39

Mrsdyna · 26/01/2025 11:13

https://criticalscience.medium.com/on-the-science-of-daycare-4d1ab4c2efb4

Unfortunately, it's not true that kids aren't damaged by it.

I didn’t say all children or even the majority are not. I said plenty are not. Back in your box.

OP posts:
RamblingEclectic · 26/01/2025 12:49

I agree with the 'Wouldn't that be nice', moving the conversation on is the best tactic and that it reads like she's more frustrating with wider social situations than with you working specifically from what you've written.

Times have changed, as they always do. For most of humanity, families and communities worked together to deal with survival including caring for and teaching children how to be part of that. The recent changes are more individualisation of people and families rather than surviving being harder - most mothers have always worked, just usually with the family. I don't think this would change your MIL's mind much though to get into.

I would not throw a barb at your husband's earnings to try to dismiss your MIL's opinions as many are suggesting, unless you both agree to that beforehand. I really don't see how making a jab at your husband is meant to teach your MIL anything, especially when she specifically said that the government should be helping to enable this rather than that men should.

My husband and I took turns being at home with our kids. Only our oldest (now 20) went to childcare and it was a disaster - it did cause him harm in ways that took awhile to repair. I live in an area that was known to really struggle with having quality provision at the time, especially for little ones with additional needs as my oldest was, and it's not improved that much over the years so while I agree preschool provision can be great for kids, much like as many mention with SAHP & is often discussed about schools, any care for kids is only as great as the provision that's accessible to them and their families.

When preparing to have kids, I do think that is something to consider - what is available in your area and how you would manage if you have a child who cannot access childcare. There is a cultural image that, while horribly expensive, all the paid-for childcare options are there, and for some kids, families, and communities, they aren't.

women being the only mammals to go through menopause, which stops reproduction after a certain age but they continue to live for many active decades afterwards with the purpose of supporting their own offsprings to raise more children.

Humans aren't the only one, if we define menopause as cessation of female reproduction rather than menstruation as most mammals reabsorb rather than shed off the uterine lining. It's been well-recorded in some species of whales and there is growing evidence that many mammals including chimps and mice do so if they live long enough - it's just most species don't live that long enough in the wild to get to that point of running out of releasable eggs. Humans may do so earlier compared to our maximum lifespan compared to the average for mammals in part because that gave evolutionary benefits as the theory suggests, but we're not unique in having menopause in the safer domesticated settings we've designed.

I don't think this would shut up someone who wants the government to support SAHPs.

jannier · 26/01/2025 13:19

AnnieMay55 · 26/01/2025 10:49

Times have certainly changed. I also believe 'most' children are better off at home with their primary carer until around 3. When my children were young they all went to pre school part time from around 3 and built up sessions before full time school. It worked well if you had a good local pre school. The children learnt social skills, mixed with others and learnt to share. In my area the majority of mums were all sahp. We then went to the increase in day nurseries so people could work full time. From there we next got breakfast and after school clubs. When a breakfast club was started at our primary school, probably 20 years ago now, the leader was surprised that nearly all those attending, which was only about 10 children at the time, all seemed to be problem children. Maybe opinions differ but it seemed at the time those were the children who had spent all their early years in childcare and not had the consistent love and care at home with a parent. Fast forward another 20 years and day nursery and breakfast/ after school clubs are common place, 3 new nurseries have just opened near me in the last 3 months. I personally feel like probably Ops MIL does, that this is a sad state of affairs. Whereas I think people expect more these days and so need money to do it, it is also so so hard for young people to get a property these days. It didn't used to be a necessity to have two wages coming in to afford to live. I am fully aware my DIL would have to work and may be want to, if they have children and would never question it.

It certainly has been a necessity to have two incomes since the 80,'s. Unless you lived in a very deprived area and we're lucky to be working ..in the NE there were loads of boarded up houses so you could probably have got one on a single salary....if you had a job.

modernshmodern · 26/01/2025 13:21

I agree as a society we should be able to afford one income households as a basic living standard with the option for both parents to work if they choose to upto the age of 5 .

But equally children thrive in nursery/childcare settings.

Sugarcoldturkey · 26/01/2025 13:24

modernshmodern · 26/01/2025 13:21

I agree as a society we should be able to afford one income households as a basic living standard with the option for both parents to work if they choose to upto the age of 5 .

But equally children thrive in nursery/childcare settings.

Older children can thrive in nursery/childcare settings. A 6 month old does not. See the excellent research analysis linked to by a PP.

arcticpandas · 26/01/2025 14:33

Sugarcoldturkey · 26/01/2025 13:24

Older children can thrive in nursery/childcare settings. A 6 month old does not. See the excellent research analysis linked to by a PP.

My DC both started daycare at 3 years old. That was when I thought they would get more out of being with their peers than hanging with their mum. I do think it should be possible for everyone to stah the first 3 years. My parents both worked parttime until I was 3 so it was really equal. My dh would not have been able to work pt so it wasn't an option for us.

Mrsdyna · 26/01/2025 17:31

CockerMum · 26/01/2025 12:39

I didn’t say all children or even the majority are not. I said plenty are not. Back in your box.

What box is that?

I'm just providing you some information, no need to get so defensive and rude.

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