Circumcision should be banned.

[ArabellaScott]

https://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2025/01/judge-and-parents-call-for-boys-to-be-protected-from-circumcision

Article describes an upsetting case of two doctors performing these ops without anesthesia, and with sometimes serious side effects. One boy nearly died.

The National Secular Society is running a concurrent campaign to ban all 'religious cutting' - that includes both FGM and male circumcision. I wholeheartedly agree that no baby or child should suffer in this way. More info:

https://www.secularism.org.uk/religious-surgery/

YABU - circumcision for religous reasons is fine
YANBU - circumcision should be banned (unless there is a medical reason)

Agree, OP. Totally barbaric.

Is it how the girls dress by chance? With no comment on how male teenagers dress.

Pepe, I agree the clean argument is very weak. I think the health one is more relevant, but still doesn't override consent & is not urgent. Yes, as you say, FGM parents think they're doing the best thing. While the circumcision parents may have some evidence for the medical argument, it's weak. Both may have reasons to believe they're doing right, but that doesn't mean they are. In the Victorian times, some parents thought a mentally ill child was a changeling fairy & should be beaten until the real one returned. They meant well....Circumcision parents are more likely to be in developed countries where they have access to proper debate on the issue.
The article I linked suggests a similar attitude of apathetic tradition on the part of doctors. V disturbing all round..

Plus just to say, this comment is unnecessarily inflammatory. I'd delete it if I were you

It was both but you're right, primarily girls who they felt dressed in ways they didn't agree with...showing excess skin, barely clothes were phrases used etc

Actually the stat is wrong, in the article I linked earlier, from 2012, it had fallen to 80%.

Yes totally. It’s interesting that circumcision is prevalent e.g in the US where as you say, there should be access to proper information and where religion is less of a motivator. I suppose it shows how strong prevailing cultural influence can be, even in countries that would consider themselves ‘enlightened’ or advanced.

@dogfrogdog I was actually trying to remember (it was a long time ago now). I remember us discussing it when ds1 was born.

Dh is white/english/christian so it's a bit of a mystery why he and his brothers were ever circumcised in the first place and, although I was brought up in a country where circumcision was the norm, we live in the uk where it isnt. So I think it was because, whilst neither of us felt it was particularly wrong, neither of us felt particularly strongly that it was necessary either.

The issue is that if God/Holy Book is wrong about circumcision, what else is wrong? Some rabbis etc have other interpretations, but it can be hard to work around. If you believe God knows best, then that's a powerful drive to rationalise.

Some relatives of the grooming gangs blamed the girls for leading their men astray and the parents of the girls, not the groomers themselves.

I'm not sure how enlightened the US is tbh.. Eg in 2013 1/3 of the population thought homosexuality should be illegal. Look at the influence of Bible-is-the-literal-word-of-God style Christianity, creationism etc. There's a lot of regional variations ofc, but I think overall the culture of religion can discourage critical thinking. Across the board they seem prone to getting swept up in riots & extreme thinking.

Tbf girls do tend to be more likely to dress skimpily on average than boys. Though I don't agree, I don't have an issue w religious morality against skimpy clothes, as long as it's evenly applied to both sexes. & not used to victim blame...

Plus just to say, this comment is unnecessarily inflammatory. I'd delete it if I were you

@Redoubchair

Why on earth would I ask for a comment I 100% stand by to be deleted? I find people who mutilate their children without medical need to be 'inflammatory'. So, they stop doing it to their children and I'll ask for my post to be deleted. Deal?

although I don’t have first hand experience, I can definitely imagine these are difficult conversations. I’m sure that millions of perfectly good parents have circumcised their babies because it’s the cultural / religious norm. There but for the grace of god go I. However, if harming your child unnecessarily is abuse and someone asks you whether that makes those millions of people child abusers…what’s the answer? I’m struggling to find an answer that’s not ‘yes’

White woman's burden hanging heavily today?

no lifelong downsides? at all? not one?

ok.

thats incorrect but go off

Just to add, Steinem doesn't support circumcision. She was just quoting an argument that some pro circumcision people used, but concludes that there's no proved increase in pleasure, despite a few doctors' claims, & a lot of cons. While her historical analysis can be sketchy, I think she's right that the influence of patriarchy in religions is a major cause : setting men apart as superior, but in a painful way that ensures they conform to the dictates of God & male leaders.

White woman's burden hanging heavily today?

@Porcuporpoise

Your assumption that I am white is quite telling!

No one here is talking about what adult women think about adult men’s dicks. We’re discussing whether it’s ok to chip a bit of skin off a newborn baby gif no medical purpose.

True but lots of parents harm their kids unnecessarily. Does that make them all abusers? Lots of things we all do as parents has been proven to be harmful, including the relationships with their dads or other men. Our job choices, childcare choices etc I think most parents are doing their best, though they cause harm along the way. Doesn't make all parents abusers in my book to be honest

*Edited for spelling

Ah well, if that's how you think...

In my family we call this "male genital mutilation."

There is a HUGE difference between male circumcision (done safely and with anesthetic) and FGM. Anyone conflating the two lacks any credence. Male circumcision is an very significant religious and cultural practice AND does not cause any long term harm to men. I’m not ‘for’ it and haven’t had any personal part in it, but banning it would be an extreme level of religious intolerance without just cause.

You might want to read the thread re your assertion that it causes no long term harm, several posters have shared information that shows that’s clearly incorrect - perhaps not all men will suffer long term effects, perhaps the majority won’t, but you can’t say it causes no harm ever.

A small aside. Should they turn out to be transsexuals and want MTF surgery, if circumcised, penile inversion isn't possible, which apparently gives a better result than scrotal inversion.