To think that moving to London will "fix me"

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Dear MN I've posted about this before, but after 16 years in the UK, I've come to the conclusion that I genuinely don't feel at home, and I don't think I ever will.

I miss the nicer weather, but above it all I think the lack of feeling of belonging is what's dragging me down.

So the idea is that once we move to London, life should be "easier". I'll be able.to work in an office environment and get to see my fellow nationals. I'll also be able to do more activities that I actually enjoy.

My DH thinks it's because I'm looking for people that are 100% like me, and that I'll never find them. I don't think I'm that odd!

I'm just a very career driven (not mummsy at all) lady that really likes performance sports, likes to get into fandoms, would like to celebrate her dog's birthday, go on 5 star holidays, while listening to chill wave!

Because I work remotely, I don't get to see any one and my social skills are completely gone. I'm not outdoorsy and we live on the coast.

My idea of fun would be to join a wine appreciation club (or cheese!). I've tried running clubs but unfortunately I'm swamped with work more often than not, so have zero continuity.

I've also tried with local groups and sometimes there's some interest but when it comes to actually meeting, nobody shows up!

So my last hope is to move to London when we can and see if I can integrate, if not I think I'd rather move back to my birth country, where at least I've got 2 friends.

Even if you can afford to buy I would consider renting in an area first to see if you like it. The stamp duty hit on London properties is eye watering eg a £650k flat would be £20k so you don’t want to have to move again.
In London moving even a couple of streets can make a huge difference to the area you are in and Estate Agents often gloss over that. eg one of the most deprived neighbourhoods in London is less than 5 mins walk away from £££££ properties in St John’s Wood. I suspect plenty of EA would refer to it as a vibrant area on the outskirts of SJW or similar.

I lived in multiple parts of London before buying my first property and DH did similar.

Honestly I think the idea that it's all in people's heads and they just need to "reframe", or meditate or (as always suggested on MN) go to the GP for anti-depressants is actually the big lie.

I think a lot of people's poor mental health is about their environment. For me, it would be living in a big city that would be crushing (I'm a bumpkin). The UK weather also used to make me constantly low-level depressed. Once I moved abroad, I was "fixed", and have never been healthier or happier.

I realise this is cold comfort for people who can't change their environment, but there it is.

I'm "from" London - (that's how I'm known around here anyway, actually I was born in Sussex but lived in London from aged 18-40) ....
So saying this with genuine lived experience, London is a really isolating place.

When it was great was when I was a student aged 18 for a good few years living in shared accommodation with other people my age, working at the local pub, going out a lot I had a great time.
I can say I wouldn't have met my amazing husband because we met at a dinner party in London hosted by a mutual friend when I was 28.

I'd gotten into a corporate office job who yes, put on lovely fancy Christmas parties and had drinks after work on a Friday but Christ almighty the people were so DULL beyond belief boring. Also cliquey (eg we go snowboarding together because our parents are rich, we're not interested in people who rent a flat in Finsbury Park like you) and the blokes were also really misogynistic, I was told to wear high heels more often by some bloke who worked in a different department to me. It was a tech company like you, but I had an admin role.

After having children, ditching my office job and living in Finsbury park which is delightfully multicultural, unless you actually want to get to know your neighbours who have no interest in getting to know you because you're not from where they are from..... I noticed I had no community at all. I'd go to the baby groups and less than 5% of people actually had English as their language, they all went with their own people showed no interest in getting to know an English baby who's family were in Sussex. It was really hard to make local friends. I obviously had a lot of friends from uni who had children around the same time we stayed in touch and that was lovely but there was no sense of community whatsoever in my area.

We left London to move to the countryside. The difference is astonishing. I can't believe how nice and thoughtful and friendly everyone is here.
I feel as though all my years in London were actually a very dark time in my life.

London is certainly more diverse and there's lots more going on. I think people there are also more likely to welcome outsiders: my experience of rural places is that people take a very long time to welcome you. I imagine being non British and/or non white is much easier in London.

But it isn't a silver bullet. For one thing obviously its very expensive and it can take quite a while to settle. I also wouldn't fall into the trap of assuming you will socialise more in London. People who live in London don't really live in "London", they live in their particular London village (ie Camden or Brixton or Wandsworth). It takes hours to get anywhere. If you know people in that particular village it's good but if you live in East Sheen and your colleagues live in Edmonton you may just as well be living in the country.

There's lots to like about London but don't go into it expecting it to be a quick fix for all your problems.

I would go if can afford to go, you seem really bored where you are, I don’t think you would have the social life you think you will have in London as everyone is always really busy/ tired there but I’m sure it would be better than where you are. People can also be quite unfriendly.
I lived in Clapham / South Clapham for a while and thought it was fine although I did feel it had a very young party crowd.

Are you a native Londoner OP? Apologies if this has been covered!

Working remotely is the first problem. You are isolated and clearly quite extrovert.

Can you start by setting up a club that might attract like minded people - maybe a wine and cheese appreciation club? Host it, or arrange for a local wine bar to host it.

I moved from London to a village and didn't really connect with anyone until I set up a group for an interest I have as there wasn't one locally. Nearly every friend I now have locally came from that group.

You mention a dog - couple up with some neighbours for dog walks and risk chatting about things that really matter to you. That way you suss out who shares your interests. I have a good friend who I never really connected with for years until our career interests overlapped. We went on long dogwalks and I found her absolutely fascinating. then she invited me along to one of her hobbies which I loved so we started doing that together too. I know when I catch up with her, there is always something interesting to discuss.

Kindly, be ready for a bit of disappointment.
I feel that moving back to Prague would "fix me", but surely not. Britain has changed for worse, but so did other places, in different ways.
We have to fix what's wrong with ourselves, then look at moving where it would work for us.
Wow, that's actually a mature response 😂

Since you can afford it I would do it.

Not sure your colleagues will be drinking after work a lot, but you'd be able to go to the networking events. Plus you could join a sociable type gym and meet people there doing your sports. And there are tons of activities in London you are less likel to fine elsewhere. It's only whether you actually have enough time between work and kids to go out and do them.

I agree with PP. London is a lonely place. Even if you find your "tribe". I don't have any friends here and am hoping to move to a smaller community to try and find some. Everyone just goes home after work. You might find a community centre with your countryfolk here but you might live some distance from it. Will you be inspired to go an event four boroughs over just because?

I think maybe you are struggling to integrate with people in general? It might not be cultural, it might be many other things. I would think very carefully before making the leap.

I'm a Londoner and unlike the poster above I think London is pretty good for finding a community. I will say English people generally can take a long while to warm up and become actual friends, but no need to restrict yourself to English people.

From how you've described yourself I do think London would suit you.

I moved out of London to a biggish commuter town and it's so boring by comparison and I feel like there's hardly anyone like me around (and I've joined just aboug every local club trying to find them). People here are saying you can do activities anywhere but it's just not the same.

I've been in London since I was 23, so more than 20 years and have found it really friendly. I met a group of people online very quickly when I arrived, had drinks with them and found myself with an instant friendship group which has waxed and waned over the years but four of us went to the theatre together last week. I work at a business which is very sociable, so have good friends from there, and a little group of 2/3 fellow school mums who are sanity-savers and blessedly local. We also have brilliant neighbours. I don't recognise the description of London as lonely at all.

Yes! Born and bred Londoner here. London welcomes everyone. I love that my friends come from all round the world. As a Londoner I have more in common with other people from major international cities (eg New York/ Mexico City/ Berlin/ Paris) than with people from regional towns in the UK.

I work full time in one of the most interesting places in the world for my sector, dc attends an excellent state school, world class culture is on our doorstep - we’re at the theatre or galleries or something else interesting at least once a week. In fact I went to see a play that was so incredible last night I can’t stop thinking about it! We do sports every weekend in one of our huge parks or on the river. People like to complain about London but if you’re a city person you’re a city person, and this one’s brilliant.

Welcome to London! I think you’ll love it here.

It’s really fascinating how different peoples experiences are. Mine is the absolute opposite. Grew up in a town that’s often cited on MN and in the media as a desirable place to move - a well-connected, picturesque market town close to countryside - and was depressed pretty much from the day I was born until the day I left. I used to sit in primary school dreaming about living in New York without really knowing what or where New York was. I never fitted in or found friends, I certainly didn’t find people nice and welcoming and I was born there (but parents foreign/not from there). I came alive once I moved to London and found my true people (but I don’t work in finance or tech or encounter many of the kind of people you’re talking about, I don’t particularly like that type either).

London can be very lonely. Definitely the post work pint has dwindled since the pandemic.

You can make friends via things like MeetUp certainly but London is so big your friends could live a long tube ride away.

LOL doing something like this is my ultimate dream!

But that's the thing I think London would open the door to more options.

And if it doesn't work, then I accept defeat and move back home.

I think if either your interests or something about your personality is niche in some way, you'll do better in a big city/London. Classic example would be a goth, or someone into a niche music scene - that scene won't be well represented in a smaller place whereas London will have enough people interested in it. But I think this dynamic exists for personality as well - some people simply are more 'niche' and will find fewer people that they really click with, while other people click with a wider range of people. The niche people might struggle in a smaller place as there simply won't be many people who are quite right for them.

In a bigger city, you're more likely to meet like-minded people. And the population is more transient so people don't have the same established social networks.

My parents have lived in the same country village for 25 years now (moved there when I was a teen) and they've reached the point where most people will at least nod to them. My mum was talking to one of the neighbours down the road about a parish council matter a few weeks ago and he actually said to her "of course what newcomers like you don't remember is..." My mum joked to me afterwards that they'll still be "newcomers" when they're carried out feet-first 😂.

Ooh which play?

I don't think moving anywhere will 'fix you'. It may be a better environment but you'll still need to put the effort in.

I lived in London for 15 years, love lots of things about it, still have lots of friends there...but didn't really make many "proximity friends" from my local area the whole time I was there. Moved out a few years ago to the hipster bit of a northern city and it's like being the bloody Mayor just walking to get a coffee - I always see someone to stop and chat to. London just doesn't really work like that. The friends you make are through work or through other friends.

As a side note, are you sure about Clapham? You sound a bit too cool for Clapham. Maybe east, or Brixton village?

You are quite delightfully bonkers and specific if you think moving to London will help you achieve the dream of celebrating your dog's birthday. Just befriend some dog walkers, tell them it may be a bit eccentric but you've always wanted to celebrate your dog's birthday with a big meaty cake, and invite them and their dogs to a party in the park. Bring some food for the humans and some balls and sticks to throw. I bet you will make instant friends, wherever you are.

I don't even have a dog but I'd be so up for this!

I’m like you Op, I’m career driven and not that mumsy, I don’t feel I particularly fit in on the school run. I live rurally and so many of the mums don’t have careers or hobbies.

I love networking in London (I can get the train into central within 90 mins), and I love the vibe and access to clubs/activities/culture.

I totally see where you’re coming from and it’s worth a try!

What are performance sports?!

Yes - a friend of mine moved to East London near Springfield Park. She knew no one but got a dog. Within weeks she was so busy and had lifelong friends. There was an exceptionally sociable dog walkers' club there. They would be so up for doggy birthday parties. Clapton, not Clapham!