Reframing the Southport killings as being about knife availability

[Macrodatarefiner]

AIBU to think that's the least of it?

I can't stop thinking about it, it's so horrific. The poor families and neighbours and everyone involved or touched by this. Hearing it said that its somehow Amazon's fault sounds completely absurd to me. He produced ricin for goodness sake, if he didn't get the knife from Amazon it would have been somewhere else. This incident should (and will I believe) change history. And it has NOTHING to do with where or how he got hold of a knife.

It’s obvious they cannot fix any real problems. So they’ll just restrict your freedom instead—it’s much easier for them

I teach in a YOI and have worked in secure centres. I’ve taught hundreds of young people, male and female, all nationalities, colours, social background and wealth, and levels of SEN. The commonality is lack of opportunities and support for young children. It is too late to wait until they are committing crimes. We need to flood money into early years care, playgroups, surestart, parent and child cooking and art sessions, CAMHS, GPs, teaching assistants. This will be expensive, but how much does it cost to deal with the aftermath of something like these attacks?

From what I heard on a discussion couple of nights ago Prevent are full of self righteous loons far more interested in kids as young as 6 slinging racist insults around. Certain individuals (adult) may be racist but not far right in the true sense and certainly not intent on mass murder.

Yes there are nutters out there but we know where the majority of danger to the public comes from.

So, what's your reasons against stringency in knife retail regulation?

If you knew how easy it was to procure a gun and how many households contain a gun (52%) in the US, the you'd know that's it's a very apt analogy.

But we ALL have knives in our houses. Who does not have several? No one needs a gun. A few like to have one for sport but it’s a relatively small number when compared to knife ownership. It’s not a bad thing to tighten buying requirements but that’s not going to stop knife crime.

Crossbows should be illegal in the UK- there is no reason for anyone to have a crossbow.

I agree. No reason at all. We seem so slow to take any action.

Im pretty sure I wouldn't have spotted ricin, even if it was in my fridge. Who would?

I do think it might be problematic, given the gravity of the crime, that none of the social media companies will release the perpetrator's recently deleted social media/searches. Privacy is very important, but surely not in the case of a convicted mass murderer.

It’s obviously a million miles from being the main issue. But it doesn’t mean it’s wrong to think about it as an issue. If we got rid of pointed knives as something readily available that might do some good to society as a whole.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27185105/
It looks like it's quite complicated. So asd doesn't make you more likely to be violent, but asd is over represented in perpetrators of extreme violent crime eg mass shootings in school. I don't think there is no link therefore between violent thinking and mass killings. It sort of makes sense too. If prone to obsession as someone with asd, it's very worrying if that obsession is violent fantasy. Coupled with social interaction problems, perhaps difficulty in empathy, rigid thinking, you can see how this might happen

The knife is the least of it.

It's about Islamic extremism, the failure of Prevent, and two-tier policing which kept a lid on it for fear of 'community tensions'.

There will be civil war if this carries on.

Evidence for the Islamic extremism?

Michael Mansfield KC talking sense on radio 5 at the moment. Talking about how no strand dealing with AR on any level has been effective in joined up the dots. He’s saying he was convicted previously and everything that was a warning sign was overlooked. Too much leniency. Too much passing the buck.

The sentence was very long and he thinks he will not ever get released. He feels he will have to be in isolation for the rest of his life. What should the response be for someone like him? There won’t be any rehabilitation so they won’t attempt it. It’s a living death.

He also thinks Starmer could have said it was potentially a terrorist event. He could have said further investigation was taking place. The law is clear that the process of justice cannot be compromised but he thinks Starmer should have said something to try and stop rioting. Very interesting interview.

I agree with this

He was a product of a broken system.

Many troubled teens turn their violence, unhappiness, anger, despair on themselves, self-harm, suicide.

He turned it outward and we obviously know the terrible consequences.

But it sounds like he was brutalised by his peers and lack of support from the 'system' nobody cared, no one supported him or his family.

There was nothing that could've been said to stop the rioting. Hell, the twitter sewage is still running, just too cold to actually go out in the street, so instead they sit home, angry, fuming and making up shit.

Well he thought Starmer could legally have said more and got that all over the media. Being Starmer he pulled back. That was the main point really. Not trying. Saying it would compromise the trial was not true if some carefully crafted info had been given. It was the police who said he was born in Cardiff. It was part of the Mansfield narrative of being too much on the back foot and one dimensional. It might not have worked but it wasn’t tried.

It's not about Islamic extremism. Continuing to spout this helps nobody but the racist thugs.

I worked with a youth centre some time ago with young people from disadvantaged backgrounds or behavioural issues. A common factor was the lack of parent engagement. Due to many factors such as absent parent, lone parents & dysfunctional issues. A lot of parents simply didn't care or have time to know what their kids were doing.

Parental neglect also plays a big part in the formation of a child's character growing up. I remember one parent refusing to collect their child after we returned from a trip at midnight. She was on a night out at a club and didn't want to be disturbed & reluctantly turned up an hour later. Some of these children grow up without any affection so are unable to feel the same towards others.

I'm not saying this is what happened to the Southport killer but there are many factors in this knife crime epidemic. It needs a multi agency approach to tackle it.

@BlueSilverCats Well he downloaded a terrorist manual ! He also used knife stabbing actions they think he would've picked up from that, also the fact he targeted a Taylor swift dance class, not long before a Taylor swift concert was cancelled because of terror threat. I think that's enough evidence of the shit he was learning and who from. He may have been acting alone but there's a clear influence

Nobody wants to talk about the home life of knife offenders. Or the parenting.

There are so many silos we give ourselves.

Mixed feelings really. A few years ago a woman bought a bottle of sulphuric acid from Amazon for a tenner. She used it to maim and disfigure her ex lover who later opted for euthanasia in Belgium.

There used to be regulations covering deadly weapons and poisons etc? Admittedly there are many other factors in this case.

I'd certainly like to know what the hell was going on in a house were a teen with a history of being violent and with murderous intentions, who had given up on mental health interventions, was able to keep a crossbow and a machete in their room and make ricin, and if a parent then also signed for a knife for him?

That's not how it works. He also had materials on and was obsessed with Hitler, the IRA , US school shootings,genocide etc.

Is he also a Nazi? A member of the IRA?

Absolutely happy there's restrictions in Tescos or wherever but it's not the problem, my nail file & my kitchen drawer are just as dangerous with intent

My OH is a plumber & his tools are incredibly dangerous in the wrong hands

@NewHeaven There is supposed to be a multi agency approach now. Social services, police, education, legal system and courts, health. Except they don’t talk to each other and don’t see a pressing need. I agree with the KCs that the agencies of state back off. Race, ND and giving dc the benefit of the doubt are not serving us well.

Starmer also backs off. There seems to be very little urgency and all he’s talked about is Amazon’s knives.