Reframing the Southport killings as being about knife availability

[Macrodatarefiner]

AIBU to think that's the least of it?

I can't stop thinking about it, it's so horrific. The poor families and neighbours and everyone involved or touched by this. Hearing it said that its somehow Amazon's fault sounds completely absurd to me. He produced ricin for goodness sake, if he didn't get the knife from Amazon it would have been somewhere else. This incident should (and will I believe) change history. And it has NOTHING to do with where or how he got hold of a knife.

And yes I agree. I'm getting pretty tired of hearing, when another incel goes on a rampage that, "this isn't a terrorist incident".

Isn't it about time we broadened the definition of terrorism?

It's genuinely offensive them suggesting this as an effective measure and seemingly ignoring the obvious.

The other change needed is a requirement that any delivery not ordered by the home owner should be returned to the vendor immediately.

That should stop the way Rudakubana had the components of ricin sent to his neighbours, and is something we all can support.

This. It has fuck all to do with knife availability. He could have walked into his kitchen and grabbed a knife capable of stabbing people. I have at least 5 in my kitchen.

I am so tired of this type of BS from politicians.

It’s absolutely not about buying a knife, I doubt there’s a household in the country that doesn’t have knives in the kitchen that would be lethal in the wrong hands, the bigger issue is the massive failings in this case and the lack of deterrent for carrying a knife in public

Re the sentencing I understand he was too young for a whole life tariff. Don't agree with that rule but understand it exists and 52 years does seem like a lot ( not enough again In my opinion) but surely they could have sentenced him for each murder consecutively . In America people will get this and end up with a sentence of over 100 years which effectively means he would never come out.

You know why they didn't? It's too disgusting to explain; but it's down to the legal principles that apply, one called totality and the concurrent principle.

52 years is enough

There was a horrific stabbing of a 12 year old boy just walking ten minutes home. He looked sweet and no reason for senseless violence

Four stabbed today in Asda. These things are barely hitting headlines

It's too much

Regarding his mental health, it's interesting he hasn't been sent to a secure hospital, but to regular prison.

Usual government cop out blame everyone else ! It’s Amazon’s fault it’s twitters fault.

No the fact is prevent done nothing while this weirdo planned this. His parents were equally as awful 🙄 I’ve access to numerous knives in the kitchen, it’s the person who was the issue not the knife.

He doesn’t necessarily get out in 52 years though, that’s just when he can apply for parole. The parole board decide if the risk of releasing him is manageable. If they don’t think it is, he doesn’t get out.

The Southport inquiry is going to focus on agencies and organisations.

In addition, the government is intending to take some measures on knives.

Would you prefer the government only held the inquiry, and did not do anything about knife availibility?

There's nothing wrong with his mental health.

Lots of people in prison have personality disorders, which affects how they act.

I looked into this a bit more and the offender was acting like a total piece of garbage, like refusing to pay for this taxi, being abusive to people on the road etc. I think narrowing the focus to knife availability is a bit simplistic considering he was clearly in a mindset to commit crime and do what he wanted to do.

Of course it's also about the knives. It's about many things and it's important that all factors are looked at and improvements made where possible.

I didn't know you could get knives like that from amazon. The problem is now everybody knows and there is nothing easier than ordering from amazon.

If we can easily stop this one factor among several what's wrong with that? We always say thr us are crazy to make access to.guns so easy. Well, the uk has a stabbing problem so looking at access to knives makes sense absolutely

I think we need to be looking at what everyone, and especially children and teens, can access online rather than the availability of knives. There are many benefits to our digital lives, but the easy access everyone has to extreme view points, which they are much, much less likely to come across in a non-digital world is worrying.

He may still have locked himself away in his bedroom, and may still have had problematic tendencies but if he was reading novels or making models or playing a musical instrument rather than reading about all sorts of crazy things online I don’t think this would have happened.

I work in a public sector org. We have had hours of prevent training. Yet all seems pointless if the organisations ignore us. They systems are in place but we don’t use them. Why? Same reason the govt told us this wasn’t a terrorist attack when it happened and that he was just a nice boy. They knew. Nothing to do with a knife or mental illness.

We've known a lot of Autistic kids are being referred to Prevdnt for ages - they miss school and slip through the nets. No one takes accountability for them. There have been stories on this for nearly a decade and every time they say "one day knew of these kids will kill people". SEN and kids out of school need to be properly funded and accounted for.

Unless they're planning to ban knives altogether for the entire population, then they're going to be available aren't they? They're in every home. What a spectacular waste of resource and hot air. And a distraction from what they need to focus on. It never ceases to disappoint me how eagerly people fall for it and lap it up.

We use knives to cut food. Every house contains knives. I have a big chefs knife and any member of my family could pick it up and kill people. I don’t really see how they could be restricted. As we need them. Even if we didn’t have knifes, we have hammers to fix things. Most people have a hammer and that can kill with one blow. I know you’re not allowed to carry weapons, but we all own them.

it’s not clear to me exactly what the fuck happened to this individual to make him like this. Obviously there are idyllic childhood photos of him acting in ads etc. I think whatever happened is more the focus, than the knife.

Well I don't think banning cross-bows, machetes, billhooks and hedge slashers is a waste of time- you can buy them all on ebay. It's the ease of availability that is worrying. No one in this country ever needs to buy a cross-bow, ever. The others should only be sold through specialised agricultural outlets and their sales controlled. There should be a programme for returning them when no longer required and a national amnesty for all knives/cross-bows and guns. Of course that wouldn't collect all if them but it could take hundreds of thousands out if commission. And we should just stop selling them or allowing them to be imported and sold.
We are far too lax with so many dangerous things- the availability of porn, weapons, drugs, alcohol. We allow almost anything to be imported and sold. There is no real control.

@BeachRide Until a place becomes available at a secure unit, eg Rampton or Broadmoor. He cannot be assessed by the necessary professionals in a standard prison. He will be moved on.

I think Starmer has been a complete idiot about knive availability. It’s obvious sales should be limited but anyone like this young person would get hold of one from elsewhere. He already had! He took one into school. When the police have to go with social workers to a house they KNOW there’s an issue! They knew there was an issue repeatedly. What we need to know is why those that are tasked with protecting society, don’t do it.

Children can be taken into care. Why was he left at home? Why did no one act after catching him with a knife? In a school? It’s a CRIME! Why does no one react and use the laws we have? Why do they sit back and think upholding the law is too difficult?

Im hoping a public inquiry shines a light on incompetence and reasons why this murder was not detained earlier. Lessons are never learned though!

James O'brien and some newspapers

If you read the full account on bbc you will see he wasn’t radicalised and this wasn’t a terrorist attack in the name of any cause.
I was confused myself at first having read that he had down loaded an Al Queda manual.
This person was attracted to violence of all sorts. He was obsessed by evil and murder ranging from Hitler, Gengis Khan, school shootings and islamic terror attacks.
He sounds to be mentally disturbed from a very young age.
In fact Prevent did not prevent him in part because he did not fit the profile of radicalised young boys and men they usually deal with.
Whatever he is I agree he would likely have got a knife from somewhere but any tightening on the ease of obtaining weapons can only be positive in general.

Demanding what change? Taxing us more to pay for the level of public services we want?