Reframing the Southport killings as being about knife availability

[Macrodatarefiner]

AIBU to think that's the least of it?

I can't stop thinking about it, it's so horrific. The poor families and neighbours and everyone involved or touched by this. Hearing it said that its somehow Amazon's fault sounds completely absurd to me. He produced ricin for goodness sake, if he didn't get the knife from Amazon it would have been somewhere else. This incident should (and will I believe) change history. And it has NOTHING to do with where or how he got hold of a knife.

Is that your interpretation or did sky news say explicitly that there may be further prosecutions?

Explicit.

It's utterly atrocious and unspeakable. Beyond the comprehension of normal people.

Well, that doesn't bode well.

I thought exactly the same yesterday. Nearly every kitchen in the land has sharp knives.

True, but that’s absolutely no reason to not make more stringent policy surrounding knife availability.

You sound like an American arguing again gun law.

The reasons politicians cannot address it, is not their failure in doing so, it’s the failure of them knowing how to do so.

And l think if we are honest that is a wider problem, l don’t think many know the answer.

I do agree. Even with every resource in the land, what do you do here? I'd say there came a point where you'd think there was enough to forcibly section him, asses him and establish if any part of this was manageable or treatable.

If he's akin to say Dahmer in his brain circuitry ( or whatever you call this, psychopathy perhaps), then you can't fix that can you.

We're all afraid of this so it helps us to find a place to blame.

knives are a huge issue but in this case it is much than that.

You sound like an American arguing again gun law.

Perhaps, if every single person had a drawer full of guns in their kitchen. But they don't, do they. You sound like someone who can't think of an analogy that actually works.

No it isn't about radicalisation. That has been made clear. It is about violence - and possibly / probably mental illness. But the thing that is scary is that he wasn't radicalised. Had he been, there would be an explanation, something to blame. Just the knife is being blamed. Radicalisation is just as much a distraction. Perhaps he's an abberation - but I don't think so. Young people are mbecoming habituated to violence and it is becoming normalised. His crimes stand out, but he isn't the only one. Dozens of young people are resorting to serious violence. We have a problem. And we need to work out why the hell we have that problem and what we do about it. Because an increasing number of young people are turning into violent thugs, and they will always find a weapon if they want a weapon.

If anything we need to ensure that he isn't seen as a "one-off" - he is an extreme example of something we are seeing growing in the UK and just because the others didn't get referred to Prevent doesn't mean that it's a small problem. How many weeks go by now without some young person being sought or arrested for extreme violence or murder? It didn't used to be like this.

You can buy all kinds of weapons on ebay- crossbows and ammo, sharp long knives,huge machetes, bill hooks, slasher tools for hedges (look like long machetes).

It's a massive failing in children's services that we all know about but the government trying to blame Amazon is ridiculous,they should be funding proper support for families and children.presumably prevent didn't do anything those 3 times because they are swamped with seemingly more risky referrals.you can't blame the parents,no matter what they did there was clearly no help coming.thats what needs changing.

You also don't need a "weapon". I have a hiking pole that has a spike on the end of it. Because I am disabled I need it for stability when I get out of my mobility scooter (to pick up after the dog), but it isn't lost on me that it would make a very good weapon if I needed one.

After posting previously I found this article https://www.channel4.com/news/exclusive-number-of-teenagers-convicted-of-murder-more-than-doubles-in-5-years

From what I understand, there’s going to be an inquiry into what lead up to this man murdering those children. I believe Starmer mentioned multiple agency failures in a statement the other day? Might be paraphrasing.

I guess what I’m saying is, yes access to knives is a concern but Rudakubana was set on murdering and harming as many people as possible. If he didn’t have knives he would have found other ways. Different circumstances, but one of my children has previously self harmed and attempted suicide. I have done everything I can to keep sharps and anything else away from her that she could hurt herself with. She has still found ways to do that even after all my efforts. People do.

I’m most interested in who knew about his issues around violence, whose radar he was on and for how long (police, CAMHs, social services for example) and if anyone could have prevented this outcome. And if it’s possible to prevent another horrific tragedy like this.

Indeed Kyle Clifford has pled guilty to murdering 3 women by cross bow.

A fucking cross bow. It’s the stuff of nightmares.

Yes they need to rebadge these murders asap to deflect. Pathetic scrambling around by politicians.

We have several hunting knives, a crossbow and a machete at home. We're not murderous lunatics though, so these items aren't a problem.

Keeping weapons at home is one thing. But using them quite another or carrying them outside your own property is a criminal act in most cases.

I would ban cross bows and machetes outright.

I was just reading about his behaviour in court earlier. He seems like even now he’s trying to take control of how things are run. It’s all so horrific. Where did it all go wrong?

I also read that he used to have police regularly called to his home when a home education tutor was round which is just bizarre.

I think at that stage for everyones safety they should have been focusing on providing mental health support for a teen so far gone that he is on the brink of attacking teachers all the time before trying to get him some GCSEs.

I used to work in PRUs and attended the home of kids who were excluded, so I’m quite okay with working with teens outside the mainstream but I’d have drawn the line at walking into that situation.

That case is terrifying too.

I read a while back about another case of a man who killed his ex-wife and her new husband using a cross bow in east London. I can’t recall all the details but one of them may have survived. Apparently he’d been camped out in their shed for a while with his crossbow.

We really need to do something about male anger and entitlement and how they handle -or fail to handle - their emotions.

ETA: just found the article on that previous cross bow killing here https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/nov/29/man-jailed-for-crossbow-of-pregnant-ex-wife-ilford-london

so yeah he didn’t manage to kill the new husband apparently, but he killed his ex wife who was pregnant.

Obviously for him to get to this state and commit this act, there are a number of things that need to be looked at but what possible legitimate reason is there for people to be able to buy zombie knives or machetes on line ? This case aside, so many stabbings have involved young men carrying these weapons. 11 and 12 year olds in a recent murder near here.
Same with crossbows - as in the court case in the SE yesterday, where 3 women were murdered.
How can anyone not think preventing people being able to get hold of such weapons easily isn't going to help ?

You're right to say it's the least of it. Politicians sound feeble in the face of crime

I think they will need to expand the definition of terrorism to include anyone with a general obsession with violence. Not that it will help catch future perps ( as there will be more). Unsupervised internet browsing, stretched mental health services, parenting styles, lots of factors.

Does make me wonder when I see a school boy, have they taken any knives out from their kitchen. Awful thought but I'll probably be giving young lads a wide berth.

It seems every week at the moment there is an incident in which women and girls have been targeted for being female. The same week as the Southport killings that young man killed three women from the same family with a crossbow.

Why isn't this being acknowledged anywhere on MSM?

Men, especially young men, who are disengaged, mentally ill and with potentially violent tendencies are being given free rein to delve into the deepest darkest sickest areas of human existence - at the click of a mouse. At the same time in this country, health, education, social services and police forces are barely even functioning.

How is this not going to get worse unless something absolutely fundamental changes? Clearly the government (and society) doesn't even want to ask itself this question, because of the massive cans of worms it will open. Even now on social media, when the question is asked, we're faced with a barrage of "not all men are like that" and "women kill too".

And no, that isn't the availability of knives. The question is, why are these young men so eager to use a knife to end a human life, to cause mayhem and unimaginable pain?

There is no legitimate reason for zombie knives - ever - and they should be banned nationally.

Machetes should be sold only through agricultural suppliers, be limited to purchasers providing a driving licence or other photo ID. and to the over-21s.

That will not stop a determined attacker who uses a kitchen knife or a home made knife, but it will stop the 'glamour' of the foot-long Rambo knives.