to feel like we were scammed into going to University?

[Schleep]

When I was at school (completed sixth form 2009), if you were academic it was assumed that you'd go to University. The whole thing was pushed incredibly hard on us and, in retrospect, was quite propaganda-like - we had external people come and do loads of assemblies on how amazing Uni Life was, lots and lots of talk about how University would guarantee us high paying jobs and we were repeatedly told to not worry about the debt, the interest rate is practically zero and we'd never even realise the money was coming out.
(Of course, when you're in your teens, debt looks like free money anyway)

Fast forward 10, 15 years later - and all my friends are saddled with huge debts that they'll likely be paying off for the rest of their lives.
A lot of them have had their repayment contracts changed so its no longer written off after a certain time, the payment terms are not as favourable and interest rates have gone up.

I dodged a bullet by being rebellious and dropping out after just 1 term, and that term was just before the fees tripled (at the time, you'd have thought I was ruining my life the way the University/everyone responded.) and I feel incredibly lucky. A degree would not have increased my employability and I have no student debt.
But I have friends and family genuinely upset at the hundreds they're forking out each month for something they didn't want and (at least in their cases) they simply do not use.

I find it baffling that the system was funnelling people out of the workforce, into unnecessary (in many cases) education and saddling people with huge amounts of debt.

@Katiesaidthat

He has a point. I don´t use my degree in my job, but I was told I was hired because of it. My old boss said, when she has two candidates with similar abilities, she´ll take the one with the degree.
This is the problem. 3 years studying art history or music or classics doesn't equip you with some mystical skills that you couldn't prove through the same 3 years working in the community, in retail, in volunteering abroad or a whole host of other endeavours. One could argue that 3 years at university develops your interpersonal skills with a broad range of people compared to many other activities. There are so many school leavers jobs which would show time management, dedication, resilience and aptitude way more than 3 years studying linguistics or French assuming the job isn't related to linguistics or French

Uni is the biggest scam of all

As I said previously, this phrase ( or something very similar) is something I have only ever heard out of the mouths of people who have never gone to University, never anyone who actually has.

💯

Whilst I agree with points around pure monetary ROI on degrees reducing, there is absolutely a difference in the information comprehension of someone who went to university vs not and expanded to the population as a whole this really does make a difference to society. I even notice a difference between how clued up politically friends who did more arts/english degrees (able to wade through misinformation easily) vs those that did pure science like engineering (not as good as didn’t review sources as much during uni days and essay writing).

Society is better for having more uni graduates, even if the individual does not always see this in better job prospects/higher incomes.

You make a good point, but surely this actually comes down to equipping younger children at primary and secondary level with critical thinking skills and doesn’t warrant doing an English degree..

Throughout my whole childhood and teens, I genuinely did not realise that not going to university was an option. It’s not that university was upsold at any point, but rather that it was always the unspoken default, like some pps have also mentioned. Much along the lines of, ‘when you reach this age, you’ll be able to vote and go away to university. Have you thought about what you want to study yet?’

When I finally realised that a lot of people either never considered it, or considered and decided against it, it was a bit of a revelation. (Yes, I was young, naive and clearly grew up in a strange bubble.) Knowing what I know now, I agree: it’s not necessary, and sometimes isn’t even practically useful. But I also do not think that ‘getting a good job’ (whatever that means to different people) is the only point of going to university, nor should it be.

I enjoyed studying, so much so that I went back a few times and still make time to take short courses or stand-alone modules that look interesting when I can. But has it helped me in my career? I don’t think so, not really. If that had been the only goal, I might as well not have gone. Mind, I’d probably feel differently if I’d studied for one of the traditional professions but that’s a different story.

Both husband and I didn’t go to uni after leaving college the year the fees changed as eldest children, I was estranged from one side of my family because of this decision. Our siblings did. DH didn’t get the grades to go to uni after school, I did, we both did apprenticeships. DH has just about completed a degree apprenticeship, I’m just starting one, both accrued no debt in our lives bar a mortgage and the courses are done alongside our regular jobs (DH had a drop in pay equating to about £400 pcm for 3 years, but was eligible for student discount on CTX). I still practise my apprenticeship alongside my main role, DH’s funded degree is in the same field as his apprenticeship.

One of our siblings earns substantially less than us, likely will for the rest of their lives and had an awful time at uni. The other earns substantially more, but almost equivalent (within ~£10-15k) with the student loans. Both had to move back home and couldn’t afford travel during or after uni. Was it really worth delaying being able to buy a house/ start a family etc? DH & I don’t think so and will be advising the DC to do an apprenticeship of some kind, ideally in the public sector.

So many of us protested against the introduction of fees in the 90's because this was entirely predictable.
At the time, the government's idea was that by introducing fees you could increase the number of students, and thus the number of graduates, and thus lift more people into graduate jobs. However nothing much was being done to increase the number of graduate-level jobs, so we could all see how that would work out.
Other social pressures have meant fewer old people retiring and a lot of mid-tier jobs being offshored - further reducing opportunities for young people to get hired into the white collar jobs.
End result, a degree is not as valuable as it used to be, but getting one saddles you with a huge amount of debt. Lose-lose.

I think the whole thing is a scam. I did my degree in the 90s, loved it and glad I did it, but I genuinely enjoyed my subject. DD OTOH, currently at uni, not really enjoying her course. I did keep telling her to look at other options, but she seemed to feel like there weren't really any other options? Also, she's hardly ever there. On paper it looks like they're in uni a lot, but in practice, every term has revision weeks, exam weeks, (re)freshers weeks, reading weeks. I'm sure I was in uni a lot more than she is. The whole thing could comfortably be done in a year.

Unis are just businesses, who are very good at marketing. And I don't believe this crap I see in the news occasionally that they have no money. They're clearly loaded, and used to having money to spend. They just currently have a bit less, and need to get used to it.

I do need a degree for the job I do though - I just think it could be got a lot cheaper and quicker.

The main thing DD has learned, is how to live independently, and she's loved the social side and the opportunity to live somewhere different, so there is that at least.

I was forced in to VI form and hated it, I had enough education by the time I was 16.

This was early 1980s and you could leave school and get a decent job with O Levels.

We had a school visit (in school not VI form) to a bank and they were basically recruiting us.

My parents fully expected me to go to uni, but as neither of them had gone and my brother only got a place via clearing (he wanted to do a third year in VI form for some reason) I just didn't tell them I had not applied.

Eventually I did go, but that was after I had been disabled out of my chosen career, by then things had changed so I really needed a degree to change careers.

I disagree OP. Its fine and dandy having a career job, but if you decide to change careers, or take a career break to have children for instance, you have nothing (except experience that will soon go out of date) to fall back on. At least with a degree you have something to put on your CV that is relevant and measurable.

I'm at uni as a mature student. Have done a degree, now doing an MA. Because when I looked at the job market when do started primary after a break of about 5 years, my old career wasn't an option (not family friendly) and a new career, without a degree, was start on minimum wage, work up to a certain point then would not be able to progress unless I had a degree.

And I think lots of industries are like that. A few will get through to higher levels, but for anything management level you need a degree.

That’s really interesting - I wonder if I could ask if you’d be willing share which drama schools should be avoided? I know it’s not the point of the thread but this jumped out at me as my DS (16yo) is starting to look at schools for MT training. It’s not what I trained in and so any info is good!

I agree.

There should be more emphasis on alternatives like apprenticeship, helping young people start their own business and so on.

Many degrees don't automatically lead to good careers these days (become so many people now have degrees) and the amount of debt is ridiculous.

Degrees are not always the best option unless you are really set on being a GP, lawyer or similar and this is a professional requirement.

Far too many courses are a waste of time and would be far better being something akin to the old sandwich courses or apprenticeships. I have quoted this before but I recall my old Headteacher asking me if I believed that his son was wanting to 'study' golf course design at University!

Isn't it part of targets for schools? The percentage of kids who go to Uni? I've been told it is in the part of the UK I am in. It would explain why they push it.

Anyway, I agree OP. I think the whole country needs to calm down about degrees and thinking they are the only way to get on in life. Unless your degree is in a technical, vocational subject, all a degree shows is that you are really good at writing essays. It doesn't mean you in any way have any of the skills needed for the job that is, often irrelevantly, requiring a degree.

I really wish we would get back to people being able to work their way up, and to have more apprenticeships.

Academia should go back to being a narrow interest for the minority of people who are really academic.

Most jobs don't need the narrow skill set a non-vocational university degree teaches.

We need to widen the routes into good employment.

I will only be advising my kids to go to uni if they know what career they want and they need a degree to do it.

Apologies if someone has already said it but my friend has just pointed out that everyone who went to University is 3-4 years of work experience behind those who didn't which in many cases (obviously not all) is very impactful employment-wise.

Me and my husband didn’t go to uni, thank god and still have good job. I have a job that you would normally need a degree for but moved departments internally with my employer, so very lucky in that respect! When I was at school all the ones who didn’t wanna go uni were shoved in a room when everyone else were doing their personal statements for their uni course. There was no plan for us and made us feel like we aren’t important because we aren’t going to uni! I’ll be telling my son not to bother.

YANBU. I was deemed academic at school and did what was in hindsight a useless degree that I didn't really enjoy and am now saddled with debt. I was quite immature and naive back in my late teens, plus first in my family to go to uni and didn't really grasp what I was letting myself in for in terms of debt and university culture. I didn't fit in at uni and didn't have the wild fun life people expect of uni students. I was stressed and unhappy most of the time. I wish I'd just gone into work instead.

“Well I imagine the funnelling was on purpose, helps the unemployment figures if a majority of 18-21year olds are in education.”

Yes, it does help unemployment figures, because all full time students aged 16+ are counted as economically inactive, which is counted separately from the number of unemployed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52660591

In periods where there are not enough jobs, young people do end up staying in education.

This is why DH is very keen for DS to go to Uni.
He says you can get so far but them will come up against a ceiling of not having a degree and whatever career path you take you will always have your degree.

DH & I don’t think so and will be advising the DC to do an apprenticeship of some kind, ideally in the public sector

Can I suggest you advise them to avoid local government? I have always worked in it and it sucks. Suppressed pay, dreadful management, little development, high job insecurity due to funding pressures ( my council will not pay £30 train fare for me to attend a one day UK conference on a key area of my work as they can't afford it).

I was at Grammar school in the early 2000's and leaving education at 18 wasn't even discussed as an option, it was just presumed that everyone would continue on to University. Out of my entire year group only six left at 18. It was a waste of time for me; I didn't particularly want to go, didn't particularly enjoy the experience, and got a relatively useless degree at the end of it. I haven't made re-payments since I went on maternity leave almost 10 years ago. I couldn't even guess at how much debt I'm in but I'm assuming (hoping) it will all get written off at some point. I won't discourage our DD's from going, but I won't actively encourage it either.

People go to uni generally at 18 as they want to experience freedom and freshers nights. I know I did

Exactly, much easier to rise up when you have actual qualifications on your CV.

What sort of jobs would be open to your dd without a degree