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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

The KKK is feeling pretty empowered

601 replies

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 22/01/2025 17:23

This is what happens when a man like Donald Trump gets in power.

These are the people who feel empowered.

While MN celebrates the " only two genders ", people of colour in Kentucky are scared.

I've seen threads on here wishing the UK had Trump. Is this really what you want?

Is this really the type of people you want in power?

Those that voted for Trump over trans issues, what about shit like this? Or women dying from lack of abortion access? Or climate change? Or the casual revisiting of gay marriage rights?

According to GLAAD all resources referencing LGBTQ and HIV have been removed from the White House website. Gay, lesbian, no results come up in the search.

" Pages removed include WhiteHouse.gov’s equity report (no longer accessible), a fact sheet with information on expanding access to HIV prevention and treatment (no longer accessible), and information about LGBTQ Pride Month (no longer accessible). Agency page removals include Department of State’s LGBTQ rights (no longer accessible), and Department of Labor’s LGBTQ workers page (no longer accessible). "

glaad.org/releases/breaking-trump-administration-removes-lgbtq-and-hiv-resources-from-white-house-and-other-government-websites/

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jan/22/kkk-immigrants-flyers-kentucky

This is scary shit. I don't get how any one envies?

KKK distributes flyers in Kentucky telling immigrants to ‘leave now’

Documents, including phone number and invitation to ‘join us’, distributed same day Trump took office

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jan/22/kkk-immigrants-flyers-kentucky

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 25/01/2025 00:25

Tandora · 25/01/2025 00:25

Op 1000 x YANBU

💓💓💓

Thank you

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 25/01/2025 03:57

ShireMaiden · 25/01/2025 00:20

I don't know, but why ever it was left in the way it was, it is not anyone's fault or responsibility it got repealed other than the person who did it; Trump.

When people do bad things and hurt people, do you blame anyone other than the person doing the bad thing for not stopping them?

I don't care if you agree with me or not, but like I said, I find it shocking that a feminist is trying to share the responsibility amongst people who did nothing for an act of misogyny, by a convicted sexual predator, just because he has submitted an EO you approve of against trans people in a bid to make him what? Not look as bad so that supporting his policies isn't as shameful? Or so that you can pretend what he did was for women's rights and not just anti wokism to make you feel better about agreeing with him?

Honestly it's really strange, most feminists would just straight up say Trump is a misogynist and bad for women's rights because he overturned Roe V Wade and that would be it, but you're saying it's not only his fault it's everyones fault which comes across as trying to minimise what he did.

You don't know, but you want to twist and misrepresent someone's point of view in your righteousness.

"When people do bad things and hurt people, do you blame anyone other than the person doing the bad thing for not stopping them?"

This is not merely a situation where 'someone has does something bad'. This is discussing law and the responsibility of creating legislation is a government's job, the responsibility of applying that law lies with the nation's court system.

This is also about understanding that a party leader is not the sole person responsible for a party supported decision. So, even if I didn't include the Democratic Party as needing to accept some of the responsibility through inaction, there was an entire team of Republican Party people who also need to accept the responsibility of supporting the decisions that Trump made too. Because he certainly didn't act alone.

In fact, using your own approach, the only blame then should be on the judges who voted in favour of the decision.

And why do you think an analysis of the decision by those judges should be limiting the blame to one person? How the fuck does a country learn not to allow that situation to repeat if such a simplistic analysis is taken? Then it becomes a false premise that if you then never elect the man again the situation will never repeat, done! Do you think that is approach is a good one?

Helleofabore · 25/01/2025 03:58

ShireMaiden · 25/01/2025 00:20

I don't know, but why ever it was left in the way it was, it is not anyone's fault or responsibility it got repealed other than the person who did it; Trump.

When people do bad things and hurt people, do you blame anyone other than the person doing the bad thing for not stopping them?

I don't care if you agree with me or not, but like I said, I find it shocking that a feminist is trying to share the responsibility amongst people who did nothing for an act of misogyny, by a convicted sexual predator, just because he has submitted an EO you approve of against trans people in a bid to make him what? Not look as bad so that supporting his policies isn't as shameful? Or so that you can pretend what he did was for women's rights and not just anti wokism to make you feel better about agreeing with him?

Honestly it's really strange, most feminists would just straight up say Trump is a misogynist and bad for women's rights because he overturned Roe V Wade and that would be it, but you're saying it's not only his fault it's everyones fault which comes across as trying to minimise what he did.

"I don't care if you agree with me or not, but like I said, I find it shocking that a feminist is trying to share the responsibility amongst people who did nothing for an act of misogyny, by a convicted sexual predator, just because he has submitted an EO you approve of against trans people in a bid to make him what? Not look as bad so that supporting his policies isn't as shameful? Or so that you can pretend what he did was for women's rights and not just anti wokism to make you feel better about agreeing with him?"

Well, you obviously do care whether I 'agree' with you as you have spent considerable time misrepresenting my opinion. Plus, you have assumed a label that I actually don't believe I have claimed, but you seem to have done it to make feminists look bad.

Regardless of whether I believe I am a feminist or not, I believe I am attempting to point out that rather than a overly simplistic allocating of blame, the reality was created by multiple factors. And I even then believe that there was failures at state government level too. Because again, the overturning of that case's historic decision then left each state responsible for protecting the right for female people to have abortions.

Have I also said that Trump bares no responsibility? No. But your simplistic absolutist approach is to declare that anyone not fully allocating him all the blame must therefore be fully supportive of him. It is a tribal approach to politics.

Is Trump an abhorrent man? Yes. He is.

Do I think it can be said that he in general supports the rights of female people? Only when it suits him because he can see a way to capitalise on it.

Does that mean that people cannot approve of one or a few of his decisions while not supporting all the rest? Well, I used to assume that everyone took that approach to politics, but I have been sadly mistaken.

There are obviously many who will not support an initiative that resulted in a good outcome simply because of who signed it off. Not because of who suggested it in the first place, who contributed and produced the body of work behind it and their intentions and motivations, but simply because of who put their signature to it. Not because of the outcomes which may be positive, but because an abhorrent man signed off on it.

Helleofabore · 25/01/2025 03:59

"Honestly it's really strange, most feminists would just straight up say Trump is a misogynist and bad for women's rights because he overturned Roe V Wade and that would be it, but you're saying it's not only his fault it's everyones fault which comes across as trying to minimise what he did."

Is Trump a misogynist? Yes, he most definitely is. You have never bothered asking me if I thought that but here you are assuming my opinion again. Has Trump and will Trump make decisions that will negatively impact the rights of female people? Yes. He will. Has he made and will he make decisions that will positively impact the rights of female people? Yes. He will. Because he is in a leadership role in government.

Am I saying 'it is everyone's fault'? No. I have not said this because it is hyperbolic nonsense.

Can people, including feminists, support one Executive Order the man signed while not supporting the rest of his decisions? Of course.

The question then becomes, do you personally think that supporting that EO shameful because of the person who signed it, or because of the outcomes of the EO which you disagree with?

Has all your twisting and deliberate mischaracterisations been because you don't agree with the intentions and/or the outcomes of the EO or because if another political party produced the EO, a party you supported, you would support the EO?

And considering your post discusses the EO, shall we have an informed discussion about its failings and its merits? Or will you simply dismiss it as 'bad' because reasons.

Helleofabore · 25/01/2025 04:25

Helleofabore · 25/01/2025 03:58

"I don't care if you agree with me or not, but like I said, I find it shocking that a feminist is trying to share the responsibility amongst people who did nothing for an act of misogyny, by a convicted sexual predator, just because he has submitted an EO you approve of against trans people in a bid to make him what? Not look as bad so that supporting his policies isn't as shameful? Or so that you can pretend what he did was for women's rights and not just anti wokism to make you feel better about agreeing with him?"

Well, you obviously do care whether I 'agree' with you as you have spent considerable time misrepresenting my opinion. Plus, you have assumed a label that I actually don't believe I have claimed, but you seem to have done it to make feminists look bad.

Regardless of whether I believe I am a feminist or not, I believe I am attempting to point out that rather than a overly simplistic allocating of blame, the reality was created by multiple factors. And I even then believe that there was failures at state government level too. Because again, the overturning of that case's historic decision then left each state responsible for protecting the right for female people to have abortions.

Have I also said that Trump bares no responsibility? No. But your simplistic absolutist approach is to declare that anyone not fully allocating him all the blame must therefore be fully supportive of him. It is a tribal approach to politics.

Is Trump an abhorrent man? Yes. He is.

Do I think it can be said that he in general supports the rights of female people? Only when it suits him because he can see a way to capitalise on it.

Does that mean that people cannot approve of one or a few of his decisions while not supporting all the rest? Well, I used to assume that everyone took that approach to politics, but I have been sadly mistaken.

There are obviously many who will not support an initiative that resulted in a good outcome simply because of who signed it off. Not because of who suggested it in the first place, who contributed and produced the body of work behind it and their intentions and motivations, but simply because of who put their signature to it. Not because of the outcomes which may be positive, but because an abhorrent man signed off on it.

bares should be bears. Sorry

Helleofabore · 25/01/2025 07:46

I find it shocking that a feminist is trying to share the responsibility amongst people who did nothing for an act of misogyny, by a convicted sexual predator, just because he has submitted an EO you approve of against trans people in a bid to make him what? Not look as bad so that supporting his policies isn't as shameful? Or so that you can pretend what he did was for women's rights and not just anti wokism to make you feel better about agreeing with him?"

Thinking more about that entire post and what might be the thinking behind it.

Firstly, the particular EO was ultimately about reprioritising sex over gender for instances where sex matters. An obvious impact is federal prisons for instance. It centres women and I believe it is dismissive to describe it as ‘against trans people’. In fact, parts of it will still directly support female trans people, something that some posters keep forgetting in their focus to refer to feminist efforts as ‘being against trans people’ or whatever accusation gets made.

Secondly, why would feminists feel the need to do as this poster suggests? Why would feminists feel shame for approving of this EO while not supporting many or any other decisions Trump, or his government makes?

Who genuinely believes that people who work with a government to influence a decision and enact change, and approve of that outcome, then must be said to support all that government’s decisions?

Or is it that people who approve of a decision a government makes needs to never publicly approve of that one decision because that declaration of approval of that one decision will somehow give undue support to that government overall? So approval of decisions and outcomes must never be mentioned.

If either of these suggestions are true, then activism from some groups would only ever happen when a party they fully support is in power. Or if they secretively influenced a decision under a government who they opposed, they would never disclose their involvement because they would be told they should be ashamed of that support.

All because those people who think in absolutist terms dishonestly misrepresent the support for that one decision to be full support.

Even worse. If a group didn’t agree with the current leader of a political party they supported because that leader was from a different faction of the party, they would refrain even then from their activism or never speak of their influence success.

The current narrative which I suspect is the accurate interpretation of the post I responded to, is one that I have seen used on other platforms and other threads. However, it falls apart at the very first analysis. Because it is simply not workable in the extreme idealism that looks to be underpinning it. If this is what is meant by that post, it is facile and incoherent because it lacks even basic critical analysis.

So, feminists or people stating they approve of that EO shouldn’t feel shame for approving of the EO. TheIr support should not be falsely expanded by people with absolutist thinking.

And it is false to claim that a person stating that Trump is not solely responsible for the overturning of abortion rights does so to ‘minimise’ Trump’s responsibility in the decision of the court to overturn Roe vs Wade. And it is dishonest and false to claim that discussing the wider responsibility for the loss of the protection of Roe vs Wade is done to minimise that ‘shame’.

I believe I have already said on this thread, Trump is an abhorrent man but it is also important to accurately discuss what he has and what he hasn’t done.

But I am open to clarification. So please clarify the post to ensure I have understood what is the thinking behind it.

Sausagenbacon · 25/01/2025 08:05

Great post Hellabore, I agree with it.
But I'm afraid that I think you are whistling into the wind.
Some people are genuinely incapable of seeing things in nuanced terms.

Helleofabore · 25/01/2025 08:20

Sausagenbacon · 25/01/2025 08:05

Great post Hellabore, I agree with it.
But I'm afraid that I think you are whistling into the wind.
Some people are genuinely incapable of seeing things in nuanced terms.

You are probably right.

However, I think for those who are reading this thread might find the it helpful to understand how some posts are not just bad faith but dishonest.

There is so much emoting going on with baseless accusations against posters and personal attacks. I mean we have a previously banned poster (well at least one anyway) posting bizarre personal attacks which others joined in on. We have have posters pulling in bad faith interpretations of uncontroversial actions to support their own facile accusations against Trump.

There is enough fear and uncertainty around without feeding it with falsehoods. Far better to stick with facts and stop with what amounts to ad hominem attacks both on Trump and on other posters.

Sausagenbacon · 25/01/2025 08:31

Yes. I think you're right.and thank you for having the patience to deal with it

CautiousLurker01 · 25/01/2025 08:50

Just realised a certain PPs entire posting history on this thread has been deleted. I only reported the one that accused me of minimising the plight of women in Afghanistan, not the others - did they get worse than being deeply racially insensitive [ie offensively so] while waving the virtue signalling flag of moral superiority? I now wonder whether people coming to my reply-post make of them without the context. I must sound like a foaming idiot 🤣

Nameychangington · 25/01/2025 08:52

ShireMaiden · 25/01/2025 00:20

I don't know, but why ever it was left in the way it was, it is not anyone's fault or responsibility it got repealed other than the person who did it; Trump.

When people do bad things and hurt people, do you blame anyone other than the person doing the bad thing for not stopping them?

I don't care if you agree with me or not, but like I said, I find it shocking that a feminist is trying to share the responsibility amongst people who did nothing for an act of misogyny, by a convicted sexual predator, just because he has submitted an EO you approve of against trans people in a bid to make him what? Not look as bad so that supporting his policies isn't as shameful? Or so that you can pretend what he did was for women's rights and not just anti wokism to make you feel better about agreeing with him?

Honestly it's really strange, most feminists would just straight up say Trump is a misogynist and bad for women's rights because he overturned Roe V Wade and that would be it, but you're saying it's not only his fault it's everyones fault which comes across as trying to minimise what he did.

Sigh.

it is not anyone's fault or responsibility it got repealed other than the person who did it; Trump.

Yes it is. If the Democrats really cared about the right ti abortion, they'd have taken measures while in government to protect that right, which they knew was vulnerable. That didn't, as PP said, because it was more convenient to them to have it to hold over voters heads at election time. If the Democrats had made it impossible to remove the right to choose, the Republicans couldn't have removed it. We've discussed this upthread. Both parties hold some responsibility. Not equal responsibility, the Republicans did it and are to blame for that action, but both share some responsibility.

When people do bad things and hurt people, do you blame anyone other than the person doing the bad thing for not stopping them?

Well yes sometimes we do that because sometimes that played a part. Have you never seen court cases where for example the police let off a flasher, who escalated to murder a woman, and the police are blamed for their inaction? I have, Wayne Couzens. Also the many times mental health services have let out someone dangerous who then commits a serious crime. So yes we do do that.

I find it shocking that a feminist is trying to share the responsibility amongst people who did nothing for an act of misogyny, by a convicted sexual predator, just because he has submitted an EO you approve of

That's not why, and I think you know that. Rov v Wade has nothing to do with the EO. I can like one thing someone does,and hate another. The EO doesn't make up for Roe v Wade, who is saying it does? Do you approve of either every single thing.a person does, or none? How about Tony Blair? Does Iraq cancel out the Good Friday Agreement? Or vice versa? Are you really that simplistic?

an EO you approve of against trans people

It's not against trans people, it's for women, and I think it's telling that you phrased it that way. Unless trans rights are against women's rights?

in a bid to make him what? Not look as bad

Nope, I don't care how Trump looks, I'm not his spin doctor. He looks bad because he is bad, that doesn't stop me agreeing with the contents of this particular EO. Because I'm not a child who things in good v evil cartoon terms.

The fact that so many adults seem unable to think in any nuanced way, or to understand that people you don't like can sometimes do the right thing, or people you do can do the wrong thing, and no political party will ever be or do only things you agree with, is depressing.

TaffetaRustle · 25/01/2025 09:00

@Helleofabore

I think your a bit high brow for us but well done for trying

CautiousLurker01 · 25/01/2025 09:01

The fact that so many adults seem unable to think in any nuanced way, or to understand that people you don't like can sometimes do the right thing, or people you do can do the wrong thing, and no political party will ever be or do only things you agree with, is depressing.

This seems to be at the heart of contemporary politics, the world over. You are either with me 100% or against me (even if we actually agree 99%).

Can’t work out whether it is the pervasiveness of social media; the erosion of proper, balanced, investigative journalism and lack of unbiased reporting; the education system (in all countries it would seem); or the failure of education policy to respond to the factors further up the list, ie an combination of all the above. However, the fact we are pretty much at the level of democratic sophistication where ‘ew, he likes bubble tea? Omigahd, I can’t listen to a word he has to say on global finance’ is commonplace, is beyond depressing.

TheKeatingFive · 25/01/2025 09:07

CautiousLurker01 · 25/01/2025 09:01

The fact that so many adults seem unable to think in any nuanced way, or to understand that people you don't like can sometimes do the right thing, or people you do can do the wrong thing, and no political party will ever be or do only things you agree with, is depressing.

This seems to be at the heart of contemporary politics, the world over. You are either with me 100% or against me (even if we actually agree 99%).

Can’t work out whether it is the pervasiveness of social media; the erosion of proper, balanced, investigative journalism and lack of unbiased reporting; the education system (in all countries it would seem); or the failure of education policy to respond to the factors further up the list, ie an combination of all the above. However, the fact we are pretty much at the level of democratic sophistication where ‘ew, he likes bubble tea? Omigahd, I can’t listen to a word he has to say on global finance’ is commonplace, is beyond depressing.

I think it's also to do with a breakdown of common moral frameworks. People literally do not know what to think anymore or how to make judgements on what's right or wrong. So they retreat to their tribe and outsource their thinking to that.

ShireMaiden · 25/01/2025 09:21

I think the EO is and attack on trans rights and the celebration over it while Trump continues to fuck women over I'm every other way is a very selfish "I'm alright Jack" mentality. That you're all willing to overlook his misogyny because he screwed over another group you dislike is the tribalism and morally bankrupt in my opinion. The enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that when only a few days ago he would have been your enemy too.

And @Helleofabore you most certainly are a feminist, you declare yourself a feminist regularly and are very active on the FWR board. I'm not sure why you would take exception to someone pointing out you are a feminist?

OvaHere · 25/01/2025 09:28

Was it an 'I'm alright Jack' mentality that put male rapists and murderers in female prisons or was it something far worse?

Nameychangington · 25/01/2025 09:37

ShireMaiden · 25/01/2025 09:21

I think the EO is and attack on trans rights and the celebration over it while Trump continues to fuck women over I'm every other way is a very selfish "I'm alright Jack" mentality. That you're all willing to overlook his misogyny because he screwed over another group you dislike is the tribalism and morally bankrupt in my opinion. The enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that when only a few days ago he would have been your enemy too.

And @Helleofabore you most certainly are a feminist, you declare yourself a feminist regularly and are very active on the FWR board. I'm not sure why you would take exception to someone pointing out you are a feminist?

Edited

Did you read my last post at all?

TheKeatingFive · 25/01/2025 09:47

I think the EO is and attack on trans rights and the celebration over it while Trump continues to fuck women over I'm every other way is a very selfish "I'm alright Jack" mentality.

So women are selfish to want their own same sex prisons, rape crisis centres, domestic abuse shelters, sports, lesbian dating spaces, intimate care for the sick and disabled?

You genuinely think that?

ShireMaiden · 25/01/2025 09:49

Nameychangington · 25/01/2025 09:37

Did you read my last post at all?

Yes. I just don't buy it.

ShireMaiden · 25/01/2025 09:55

TheKeatingFive · 25/01/2025 09:47

I think the EO is and attack on trans rights and the celebration over it while Trump continues to fuck women over I'm every other way is a very selfish "I'm alright Jack" mentality.

So women are selfish to want their own same sex prisons, rape crisis centres, domestic abuse shelters, sports, lesbian dating spaces, intimate care for the sick and disabled?

You genuinely think that?

It's not just about keeping trans women out of those spaces though is it?

The EO takes away a lot of trans freedoms. Like the OP said, it's not even clear what will happen to trans people as a result of this EO. Will they have to detransition legally? Then he will be literally reduced trans women to men in dresses which is what people here have been insulting them as for years.

He's taking away a lot of their freedoms and dignity and feminists are happy because it suits them. In my eyes that is wrong. Surely you can't be surprised that for a lot of people concern about the outcomes for trans people as a result of this EO overshadows the 'victory' of kicking trans women out of our bathrooms.

I'm not going to keep going round in circles on this it gets boring arguing with people who have no intention of changing their mind after a whole day.

TheKeatingFive · 25/01/2025 09:58

ShireMaiden · 25/01/2025 09:55

It's not just about keeping trans women out of those spaces though is it?

The EO takes away a lot of trans freedoms. Like the OP said, it's not even clear what will happen to trans people as a result of this EO. Will they have to detransition legally? Then he will be literally reduced trans women to men in dresses which is what people here have been insulting them as for years.

He's taking away a lot of their freedoms and dignity and feminists are happy because it suits them. In my eyes that is wrong. Surely you can't be surprised that for a lot of people concern about the outcomes for trans people as a result of this EO overshadows the 'victory' of kicking trans women out of our bathrooms.

I'm not going to keep going round in circles on this it gets boring arguing with people who have no intention of changing their mind after a whole day.

I think the fundamental thing it does is stop the process of changing sex markers on legal documents.

But it's absolutely crazy that such a thing was allowed in the first place. Why should anyone have the right to enshrine falsehoods about their sex in law?

If the 'freedom and dignity' you reference here is all contingent on legal fictions, then there's nothing genuine about that kind of 'freedom and dignity'.

Bubblyb00b · 25/01/2025 09:59

It has been completely clear that Trump and his cronies do not differentiate between different parts of LGBTQ+. So yes, those who welcome a roll back on trans ideology (sport, children transition, etc - outwardly positive stuff) should understand he is not doing it because of clear evidence and intelligent decision making - he is doing it because he subscribes to the ideology that anything to do with LGBTQ+ should not exist and should not be allowed to enter the public sphere. While he probably still be ok with gays existing, he will be looking at removing gay marriages and gay adoption rights, gay teachers, gay public workers. This is not progress, this is going back to dark ages.

Same applies to race and women's rights. "Great America" in Trump's interpretation is 1930-50s, with shit like vicious segregation and pretty silly women on heels confined to the kitchen, wating for their clever husbands to come home so they can wait on him hand and foot.

Fuck that, tbh. America can have this shit if they want but its not my cup of tea by a mile.

TheKeatingFive · 25/01/2025 10:00

And to be clear, my post didn't reference bathrooms at all.

Why are you undermining the genuine importance of women having sex-specific spaces in certain instances?

TheKeatingFive · 25/01/2025 10:00

Bubblyb00b · 25/01/2025 09:59

It has been completely clear that Trump and his cronies do not differentiate between different parts of LGBTQ+. So yes, those who welcome a roll back on trans ideology (sport, children transition, etc - outwardly positive stuff) should understand he is not doing it because of clear evidence and intelligent decision making - he is doing it because he subscribes to the ideology that anything to do with LGBTQ+ should not exist and should not be allowed to enter the public sphere. While he probably still be ok with gays existing, he will be looking at removing gay marriages and gay adoption rights, gay teachers, gay public workers. This is not progress, this is going back to dark ages.

Same applies to race and women's rights. "Great America" in Trump's interpretation is 1930-50s, with shit like vicious segregation and pretty silly women on heels confined to the kitchen, wating for their clever husbands to come home so they can wait on him hand and foot.

Fuck that, tbh. America can have this shit if they want but its not my cup of tea by a mile.

Is there any evidence for what you are saying here?

Bubblyb00b · 25/01/2025 10:02

TheKeatingFive · 25/01/2025 10:00

Is there any evidence for what you are saying here?

Yes, observation of who he appointed to his cabinet and their ideology, speeches and policies.

Just google any of the senior people in power in the US now and its completely clear what they stand for.

Swipe left for the next trending thread