A difficult conversation

[apricitykomorebi]

My son is currently in 2nd year at uni. After the first term, he seems to have decided it's not for him and is considering dropping out. As his parent I am obviously concerned although I recognise that he is basically an adult now and I can't decide anything for him or make him do anything he doesn't want to do.

In a way I am not even really sure what I am concerned about. Perhaps, it's the uncertainty over his future (he doesn't know what he wants to do, just keeps saying he doesn't want to continue studying) and the fact that he will now have 2 years' worth of university debt plus living support that we have provided with absolutely nothing to show for it and nothing to explain this time on his CV for future employers.

I also don't really know how to approach a conversation about future financial support. I don't want to be cruel and tell him that I don't want to continue funding his living expenses if he doesn't study and that he needs to find a job. He is not opposed to looking for a job but obviously wouldn't know how long it will take. While I don't mind supporting him, at the same time I feel that I have to stop doing it because he is not a baby anymore and if he makes a decision not to study, then he must work out an alternative plan for his life as an adult. I may sound pathetic but I don't feel comfortable having this conversation as I don't want to damage our relationship and I don't want him to think that all I care about is money.

If you have any suggestions/ideas/advice you could share, I will gratefully listen. Thank you in advance. 😊

He can drop out once he has found a job to go straight into. He can't live for free.

Then perhaps he should continue studying until he does know what his next steps are.

Unless you're planning to support him his whole life, you're not doing him any favours by giving him the impression that you will. Where is his incentive to get on?

Could he defer for a year?
A taste of the real world, without you supporting him, might be no harm.

Very sensible - he can drop out to a job, not a basement boy life. Unless he’s ill, when he can defer.

It’s not about money, it’s about wellbeing and motivation. Explain that once you’ve swerved on life, life can - and does - swerve on you. You get out what you put in, and all that.

Dropping out is fine and no drama if he’s got the next step lined up.

Has his decision come out of the blue?
What was his feedback during his first year?
Is it something specific about the course he is doing?
Has he talked to people at the university about how he is feeling because there may be action that can be taken such as moving on to another course?

I wouldn't worry about gaps in his CV. Changing your mind is better than being miserable and surely an employer would understand that. Lots of young people go travelling, too, so have gaps. What does he like doing? Is there anyone you know or he knows who could employ him?

I'd wonder if there was anything else wrong

Fwiw, I wish I'd taken some time out as my mh was in the toilet and I was making bizarre choices but was encouraged to continue and treated as though I was a burden and fuck up

Maybe a gap year would be a good idea

Can he transfer onto a different course where his first years study can be utilised? Finish this year and gain a lesser but worthwhile qualification?
Is he well in himself as in is this a considered decision or is he depressed? I’m assuming the academic study is not beyond him and that his first year went well enough to proceed?
Yes, he’s an adult and can make his own choices but to drop out now could have far reaching consequences in terms of earning ability with a debt. The debt might be forgotten for a few years but interest will build and at his age it will have to be paid at some point.

Why would it be cruel to tell him he needs to be studying or working? Millions of people do both at the same time. Take the emotion out of it. What’s cruel would be enabling him to duck out of the adult world so he doesn’t find his purpose, a direction, some motivation to get out and embrace life.

This ^^

Ask him what his plan is when he leaves uni? Then tell him the condition of you helping funding him during his studies. If he stops studying that's fine but he then has to stand on his own two feet.

I have asked him what his plan is and he just keeps saying he doesn't know or things like, "Maybe I will do YouTube".

I probably sound obnoxious but I have tried telling him that YouTube isn't really a plan because even if he is serious about it, it will take time to develop content, build an audience etc, etc. That could take years and in the meantime something still needs to be done to work out an alternative plan. I think he feels I am being negative but I struggle to see it differently. I don't know if I am just missing something or it's the age difference but I just can't see it any other way.

well he has to have some kind of plan of what he in going to do.
If he is studying away and committed to the academic year of accommodation, is it worth completing the year while he thinks about alternatives?

If he is planning to come home, the 'find a job before leaving uni' option may not work - but he needs to understand that it's any job, not sitting around waiting for his dream job to turn up.

Friends son, finished a degree, lived at home 'waiting' forever after uni until it was explained to him that a job working with lowland gorillas wasn't going to pop up in Sussex and he had to adjust his expectations.

not obnoxious at all to say that sitting around "doing YouTube" isn't an option.
something he can explore in his spare time when not working maybe.

Is he well in himself as in is this a considered decision or is he depressed?

I am not sure to be honest. He has a girlfriend and last year they lived together. He told me he wanted to live separately from her this year, so he could concentrate on his studies. I assume she didn't want to do that because she keeps hanging around his place practically every day. I am not actually sure how much time he really has to concentrate on his studies because they are in student accommodation, which means they have both have their individual rooms designed for one person, and yet she often stays in his room. I don't blame her for his idea to quit uni but to be honest I often feel that this business of effectively living like husband and wife in a tiny room is quite distracting and can't be motivating anyone but the most determined to focus on their studies.

My son is not of the most determined kind but, yes, he is capable enough to study. However, he is also easily distracted and not very well organised, so he does need his own time to focus, which I don't feel he has because this girl is with him practically 24/7. Naturally, she has her emotional needs. He needs to spend time with her, do things with her etc, etc. This is all brilliant but not ideal when you need to focus on your studying.

She is at the same uni but on a different course, so they don't follow the same schedule. This doesn't make things easier.

OP, if you don't set expectations and be firm about it now, you will be actively harming your son. I see it all the time, parents too afraid of making their sons feeling like a burden or unwanted when they leave school, and not saying 'you either need to be in study or work, and you need to contribute to this house' and the sons end up in terrible sleep patterns, gaming endlessly, with no purpose or direction, leading to low self esteem anxiety or depression. He needs guidance, and it's your job as a parent to give it to him. He might need a 'break' after dropping out, but that should be a month tops - I see people giving their children 'breaks' of months on end - its not good for their mental health to rot away at home with no plan, but 'getting a job' should be seen as a given, not an option - by making it an option, it turns into a bigger deal/stress than it should be, so in the long run you will be helping him.

So he’s 20, or thereabouts? From me it’d be a conversation along the lines of “You’re an adult and can obviously choose the path you want to take and I’ll support whatever decision you make. However, if you’re not in education, you need to be working towards financial independence. I’m happy to give you X months grace until you get a job but then you’ll need to be paying your own way if you want to live at home”.

I think you can plan to yourself to continue to fund him, and provide a home for him. But you need to make him believe that it is conditional on him either studying or doing a 9-5 job. If he says he doesn't know how long it will take to find one- well there's always a supermarket or a bar- it doesn't need to be the career, but the day he comes home he needs to have the intention to be doing something.

He is saying Youtube or he doesn't know because he knows he's real plan to sponge off you can't be said out-loud.

Reading this, are you sure he doesn't just want to break up with his GF, but doesn't actually have the stones to do it. So is hoping by running home she'll leave him alone?

She sounds very intense. Can you look at moving his halls?

I would give him space. Tell him that you are there if he needs to chat or think through ideas/possible plans. Putting pressure on him to give answers (when he is probably already feeling those pressures) won't help. He will find his own way. I don't think you need to have 'the conversation'. I just think he needs to know you support him. And if he says 'Maybe I'll do a Youtube' say "ok! let me know if I can help with anything!"

@ForRealCat - he says he doesn't want to move back home! We live in a village and he has always said there is not a lot to do there and in fact always said he didn't want to live in a village until he is maybe in his 30s. I have to say I can't really blame him for that because there is really not a lot to do there for young people. Most people who live in our village seem to be 70+. I just don't pay attention to what there is to do because my husband and I are at work most of the time.

His gf does seem quite intense to me as she seems to want to be glued to him literally all the time. Last year, I also had a feeling he wanted to take a break from her but seems to have changed his mind. I am generally concerned that he seems to lack focus and direction but he does have a job now. It started as a full time job in the summer but the employer was willing to accommodate his studies and allowed him to work part time. He is currently working 2 days per week. He hates the job but I am sure he could go back to it full time if he wanted to and look for something else. However, this job is basically a minimum wage job and would NOT be enough to pay rent and other expenses if he was to live independently because all rent has significantly gone up in the last 2 years. Without any significant experience and/or education, I doubt that he can find a job that would pay much more than his current job.

Hang on - he's not dropping out of Uni to get away from this girl, is he? You say he's 'not of the most determined kind' - is he having trouble telling her that he wants to break up and that she should stay away?

He needs to learn that running away from problems - a course of study, work, a girlfriend - only leads to more problems. Running towards something, sure - but 'maybe I'll do Youtube' doesn't cut it - if he really wants to do Youtube, he should be treating like a real, full-time job.

Going forward, do whatever you can to help him develop a bit more grit. I've seen a couple of family members get coddled into helpless uselessness, and they all have rotten lives...

I know it's hard for you, you're worrying... but this could be a step forward in his development, if you encourage him to engage and take responsibility. Good luck!

My DS announced he didn't want to return to his course 1 week before the start of Yr 2. He just said he wasn't enjoying the subject and didn't want to go back. Our response was "that's fine, but what are you going to do instead as you won't be lying around in your room all day playing on your laptop". Some might think that's harsh, but I've read so many stories on MN where young adults seem to be doing just that.
After a couple of weeks to think about it, he decided he did want to go to Uni but take an entirely different course. He applied for new Unis to start the following academic year, then got a job in retail to earn some money. We did, unfortunately, end up paying rent on his room as we couldn't re-let it (shared house) but just sucked that up. He did save his earnings towards the following year's Uni.

My advice would be that a frank discussion about the reasons (is it possibly the GF being overbearing) why he really wants to give up is needed. Followed by a discussion about the way forward - even if that means working in a low paid, uninspiring job whilst he decides his future. But be quite clear that doing nothing isn't an option.

@caramac04 - Yes, he’s an adult and can make his own choices but to drop out now could have far reaching consequences in terms of earning ability with a debt.

Indeed it is my concern that he doesn't really appreciate either the consequences themselves or the scale of them. It's quite easy to think you have all the time in the world when you are young but to be honest time flies by quite quickly, and I can tell from my own experience that you don't notice very much how you turn 25, and after 25 you don't really notice where most of your life went. I mean I often feel like it was only yesterday that we had him and now he is at uni living with his girlfriend! That says a lot about the passage of time, and I very much doubt that it's hugely different for many other people as most people I know feel the same way or something very similar.

The challenge is to somehow explain it to your kids such that they understand what you are on about and don't feel like you are lecturing them!

I did the exact same thing. Dropped out midway through second year so have like 30k debt for a degree I didn't finish.

I've never regretted it, I went straight into work on an apprenticeship scheme (spent 3 weeks at home looking for jobs non stop) and worked my way up. They ended up paying for me to do another degree in something totally different. I now have a career I love.