A difficult conversation

[apricitykomorebi]

My son is currently in 2nd year at uni. After the first term, he seems to have decided it's not for him and is considering dropping out. As his parent I am obviously concerned although I recognise that he is basically an adult now and I can't decide anything for him or make him do anything he doesn't want to do.

In a way I am not even really sure what I am concerned about. Perhaps, it's the uncertainty over his future (he doesn't know what he wants to do, just keeps saying he doesn't want to continue studying) and the fact that he will now have 2 years' worth of university debt plus living support that we have provided with absolutely nothing to show for it and nothing to explain this time on his CV for future employers.

I also don't really know how to approach a conversation about future financial support. I don't want to be cruel and tell him that I don't want to continue funding his living expenses if he doesn't study and that he needs to find a job. He is not opposed to looking for a job but obviously wouldn't know how long it will take. While I don't mind supporting him, at the same time I feel that I have to stop doing it because he is not a baby anymore and if he makes a decision not to study, then he must work out an alternative plan for his life as an adult. I may sound pathetic but I don't feel comfortable having this conversation as I don't want to damage our relationship and I don't want him to think that all I care about is money.

If you have any suggestions/ideas/advice you could share, I will gratefully listen. Thank you in advance. 😊

@ohtowinthelottery - My advice would be that a frank discussion about the reasons

We have tried having the discussion last week. Unfortunately, after I didn't express any enthusiasm about his YouTube "plan", things didn't go well as he felt we were being negative. Nothing rude was said but we ended the conversation early. I don't really know how to approach it again as I feel that we both need to calm down a little before we resume. At the same time, I don't want to delay it too long as obviously the longer we don't talk, the more chance there is that it could be too late for any discussions as he could just drop out!

Thank you for sharing your story!

he says he doesn't want to move back home!

If he does not want to come home then he has to get a job to pay his rent etc. I know you don't want to be the bad guy in this, and want to maintain your relationship but it is not your responsibility to fund his lifestyle. He is making an adult choice to stop studying, now he has to take on the adult responsibilities of paying his own way.

My eldest messed up Uni so badly that they ended up going part time and working. We had supported them for 3 years, with no degree in sight, and we said that was enough. They could come home or support themselves. At some point we all have to learn the consequences of our actions.

I think that first of all you need to try to get an honest but understanding conversation going about how his course is really going. Is he up to date with everything. Has been given any ultimatum deadlines which he thinks he can't meet. Our daughter dropped out of uni a few weeks into year 2. She hadn't been all that organised at home but the social life at uni was her undoing. Looking back she says she went out literally all the time whereas others were more circumspect. She says she was easily persuaded until the work load became overwhelming. She hadn't wanted to tell us at the end of year one that she had only just passed the year because she knew we would feel just like you are feeling now and she was right. We did feel exactly as you are describing here. All was not lost though. She took a low paid job..in a department store ..the type she had for picket money while doing her A levels. She seemed a bit depressed when she came home but getting out to the job for money she needed helped. She got a small promotion which helped build her self esteem back up. We were a bit sad that she seemed to have thrown opportunities away but we were also happy that she was OK. A couple of years later she regretted having left and asked us if we would support her if she went back to uni. We said yes but it would have to be a uni near home. We would help with finance ext but we weren't paying rent again for her social life to be the main event. She agreed that was a good plan. The dept store gave her a few part time hours a week. We could keep her but clothes ext and the store provided her pocket money. Sorted. She still socialized with the uni crowd but found it much easier to come home, close the bedroom door and study when she needed. She completed her degree, qualified as a Secondary school teacher and has a good career and teens she is worried about herself now 😁 They are very young when they first leave for uni. Just out of school and some a bit immature. Not really ready. She would have qualified at 22. Instead it was 25. Not really a problem in the grand scheme of things. Try not to worry op. Have that conversation. If he's struggling and it's affecting his mental health, get him home without showing too much. angst. Young men especially seem under a lot of pressure these days and there are worse things than dropping out of a uni course. You sound like a really supportive parent. Good luck going forward. 💐

This sounds more complicated than just wanting to drop out of uni. Is it the course he doesn't like, is it academic study he doesn't like, or is he trying to get away from the GF? Alternatively, perhaps he's struggled/failed some recent exams/assignments and doesn't know how to get back on track. I feel like you really need to get to the bottom of all this.

Also, bear in mind that any modules he's already passed may be eligible to be used in the future towards a degree, for example at the OU, so make sure he gets a record of achievement so far.

My own son dropped out of uni at the end of the first year. We were concerned at first although we could see he was really unhappy there and just wasn't a good fit for independent academic study even though he did really well at A level. We insisted he'd have to get a job and he went out and got one on his first day home! This was a low-paid, hands-on, practical kind of job, which actually suited him much better than something academic and desk-based. He then moved on to a more formal role, and now 5 years later, he has a good job which pays well, and more importantly, he's very happy. So it can all work out, but it's important to understand the root of the issue.

Depending on his course if he continues to the end of second year he may be able to convert those credits into a qualification - for us it was an HNC/HND

if that’s the case I’d make financial help being set upon finishing the year.

@MathsMum3 Is it the course he doesn't like, is it academic study he doesn't like, or is he trying to get away from the GF? Alternatively, perhaps he's struggled/failed some recent exams/assignments and doesn't know how to get back on track.

When we spoke to him on Saturday, he told us he deferred 2 exams that were due in January as he felt he wasn't ready to sit them, so I really do think that it could be a bit of everything. I question whether dropping out of uni is the best way to address these issues because it's not really addressing anything. In the end, it just feels like running away as had been pointed out on this thread earlier.
I agree with practically everything that everyone has pointed out so far and all points made but I honestly haven't a clue how I can explain it to him without what our kids would call "being negative", "lecturing", "patronising" etc.

The thing is my son isn't a rude person. He'd never use those words but I find that he has always been quite sensitive and he just gets upset with everything easily. He then needs time to get over it and often prefers not to talk to us when he feels annoyed or frustrated. I guess it stops him from saying something he would regret. To be honest, I also don't want to pressure him and say something I would regret but at the same time I understand I need to talk to him and somehow bring my argument home to him. I am just not sure how to talk and say things that he may not be able to hear as they are intended and make him understand the full meaning of the implications of his decisions.

Perhaps what you need to say is something along the lines of "I completely accept your decision to stop studying, and want to support you how I can but we do need a conversation about what we are willing to do and what we would expect from you. That way you can make an informed decision knowing what your options are going forward." Then you can set your boundariies for what you are happy doing, and he can decide based on that.

@shiningstar2 Our daughter dropped out of uni a few weeks into year 2. She hadn't been all that organised at home but the social life at uni was her undoing.

Thank you for sharing your experience. My son isn't known for his organisation skills either. To be honest, I am also quite sad that it's not the socialising that he is enjoying too much but literally spending all his time with the girl who is glued to him 24/7. They aren't doing much together. Not going anywhere. Not studying together as they are on different courses. They don't have any shared hobbies or interests and don't have any common friends as they didn't come from the same school.

In his first year, he had some friends. They met up from time to time and did things together but this girl seems to have isolated him from all of them. She herself also doesn't have any friends, which I find really odd because she is not a foreign student who could say that all her friends are back in her home country. And so I don't really know what it is that they do together besides cooking, watching Netflix, YouTube or whatever and playing house. In addition to that, her mum is a single mother who is not in a position to help financially and instead asks her for financial help! This girl is struggling herself as she is a student and periodically asks my son if she could borrow money! I wouldn't say he is currently in a position to lend her money and help her deal with the lack of stability on their household. However he does help. So I feel he has responsibilities that he shouldn't have at this stage and I am not sure he is really enjoying the uni experience as much as he should do.

I don't want to blame her for all his issues but I am also not sure how to bring this up either.

If he is serious about Youtube, theres nothing to stop him doing that now. And the sooner he starts, the sooner he can make an income from it. Obviously the chances of it working out are slim, but you've already pointed that out. In the meantime, he will need to work to be able to survive.

The 'Youtube or something' from him makes it sound like he actually doesn't have a plan of any kind of what content he would produce. But if he does, he can just start.

You need a plan as much as he does otherwise he drops put of university and you financially support him forever because you're worried that he will characterise a conversation about the realities and responsibilities of adult life as negative.

I do mean this kindly but how to you expect him to adult if you won't show him by example?

My youngest son absolutely hated university. The one he went to was local to us so he wasn’t in accommodation. He wanted to quit in the second year. We explained how nowadays most decent employers expect job applicants to be educated to degree level. That they have the freedom to pick and choose candidates and those with a degree (rightly or wrongly) have more chance of being successful in their job applications. We persuaded him to stay and finish the degree. Reluctantly he did and got a 2:1. He’s now a product manager in The City. Tell your son it’ll be so worth it x

I work with a number of men who dropped out uni in second year for an apprenticeship. They were clever but academia wasn't for them and unfortunately they were pushed down the uni route. They are now engineers and earn well, although at least one of them is still gutted he has to pay back two years of student loans.

If he can stick it to the end of year 2 he might be able to get an HND which would be worth it. But it does sound like the relationship is causing a lot of pressure and might be a deciding factor in his choices. If it is possible to have a gentle discussion with him about this, that is where I would start.

If he wants to be a youtuber ask why he's waiting, get on with it and start now (its MUCH harder than you realise) has he an actual niche in mind? and please don't say gaming because unless he is competition level he want make money as gamers are 10 a penny

I have asked him what his plan is and he just keeps saying he doesn't know or things like, "Maybe I will do YouTube"

That’s not a difficult conversation. All of mine were told it was very simple. They went to uni and were supported OR they worked 40hrs a week in a paying job and we didn’t care if that was on a checkout or petrol station etc. We didn’t care have done try it on with things like the YouTube stuff etc but that’s very simple - that’s great, but that’s a HOBBY until and unless it becomes a supporting full time job. Very hard to do it as a hobby if we are not supporting your internet access etc🤣.

I do sympathise. It’s not easy for everyone to know what they want to do when leaving school. That meant some of ours bounced around different uni degrees trying to find a fit, or bounced in and out of uni while trying to work it out. But our rule, and very simple conversation, was if not in uni you get a 40hr/week job that is not a self-indulging hobby your wishing is a job.

@CitizenofMoronia If he wants to be a youtuber ask why he's waiting, get on with it and start now (its MUCH harder than you realise) has he an actual niche in mind?

This is exactly what I asked him. He said he has bought some camera and is waiting for it to arrive but to be honest I don't think that this is a valid reason to delay things for anyone who has a phone, which he does! Ok, his first video may not be the most perfect video on this planet if it's made on the phone but who cares when you don't have any subscribers or any significant audience to speak of, right? These days everyone is a journalist and everyone is a filmmaker if they have a phone. Even one person watching your first video is a step forward, so I do feel like this "waiting for the camera" business may just another way to procrastinate and delay things because there is no real plan behind this wonderful idea!

Hi OP, I worked as an academic in a university for about 10 years until recently so thought I’d give a bit of practical advice about options.

Firstly he won’t have nothing to show for it if he drops out - if he completed and passed his first year of a three year standard degree (which he almost definitely will have done to now be in his second year) then he will get a Certificate in Higher Education to acknowledge what he achieved in his first year. This is a Level 4 qualification.

Secondly, he could consider suspending his studies rather than dropping out entirely. This would give him until September to see if he can get a job and if leaving is the right decision. If not then his place is held for him to go back to in September. He would need to discuss the financial implications (tuition fees and accommodation fees for this year) but it might be worth looking in to.

Another option is to see if he can stick it out until the end of this academic year which, in reality, is only a few more months. Instead of a Certificate in Higher Education he would get a Diploma in Higher Education. He could then take a full year out with fewer financial implications as he won’t need to pay tuition fees and won’t be tied into a housing contract. In this time he could try to find a job and make a more informed decision about whether he returns for his final year. I’d also be encouraging him to find out if he could do a placement year as part of his studies - it doesn’t need to be related to his degree and would be done in the year after his second year and before his third. They are paid. Again there would be no obligation to return for his final year but it might give some breathing space away from ‘studying’ without losing his place.

Finally, if he does decide to drop out, all is not lost. I used to support people returning to finish their degree all the time, whether they had studied with us previously or not. You always keep the credits/modules you completed and can use this in the future to get into another course and reduce the amount of studying you need to do to be awarded a full degree. This is really common as life often gets in the way during three years of studying!

his personal tutor will be best placed to advise on the specific options available to him but I wanted to reassure you that he wont have nothing to show for his time so far, there are other options, and all is not lost. He’s not the first and won’t be the last to have a wobble at this stage.

OP, it’s clear that you are trying to be understanding but at the same time you are being too soft.

There is no other way to say this, but your son is behaving like a snowflake. Either he needs to study for qualifications full time or work full time.

Youtube is not a career for vast majority of people. Statistically speaking, your son is probably one of those people that has 0 talent for content creation but thinks he’ll be the next Mr. Beast. You need to tell him straight.

The fact that he’s only working two days and moaning about not enjoying it tells you that this is going in the wrong direction. Be careful or you will eventually end up with an unemployed or under employs 30 something man child living at home who hasn’t found anything he ‘enjoys’.

Are you sure he expects you to carry on giving him money, if he isn't at uni? Most people would realise that the money was for studying, not just "because". So you might have nothing to worry about.

If he drops out, he finds his own place, or moves in with you but pays board. Pretty straightforward - I think if you start hand wringing about it (with him), it'll make a bigger issue of it.

Mu mum and dad used to say "We love you no matter what, and there will always be a place for you at ours. We're not a hotel though".

I don't see why it's cruel to tell him to support himself if he wants to drop out. My dad did exactly that - and suggested that I would owe him money now, seeing as he had spent his hard earned money funding a degree that I wasn't going to finish.

Guess what, I finished uni 🤣 and I'm glad I did!

Are you for real? You think buying a camera on a whim is going to make him a content creator that he can earn a living from. Serious content creators don’t just for it for a hobby because they are not good anything else in life. Professional content creators are only successful because they could other things and be equally good at it.

You are indulging his nonsense flakeyness and this won’t end well.

Would he be better off doing an apprenticeship in a trade rather than book learning for a specific area? You mentioned that he had exams in January that he's deferred and maybe this is his roundabout way of not being able to deal with the course load.

Could this be a path for him?

In your shoes I’d be super enthusiastic about his YouTube plan and ask to see his business plan and how he’s going to fund his own place in the meantime, maybe point to universal credit so that he can apply and see that he’d be entitled to next to nothing and would have to job search 30 hours a week until he’s bringing in a liveable wage. That might focus his efforts a bit.

If he suggests that you would of course continue to fund him I’d point out that there will always be a room for him in your house, but that he needs to be working (so that he can pay you rent) or studying to improve his future prospects for that to be an option. He needs a wake up call!

My son stopped A levels midway through to go to college and study something else. He then changed course at college half way through and then dropped out there too, but the understanding was always that if he dropped out he’d have to work. He got a couple of awful jobs that focussed him on finding the right career and is now thriving at 25 in an excellent and well paid job, so I know that quitting his course was the right thing for him. But lounging about pretending to be a YouTuber was never on the menu.

Alot of employers like a degree (in anything) and only accept people with degrees like financial institutions. It really is worth finishing even if he doesn't realise it.

They went to uni and were supported OR they worked 40hrs a week in a paying job

That’s very harsh and would have let out a lot of entry level admin jobs / apprenticeships. I think I’ve only had one job where I’ve been contracted for a 40 hour week. Would have been better to expect full time work, not an arbitrary number of hours.

I agree with this poster. Ask to see what his first step will be and a realistic timescale for it all. Ask him how he will pay for accommodation etc if he leaves university. Make it clear that you support his endeavours but not financially.
My son was determined to leave school in S6(Scotland). I supported his right to make that decision and explained he had to have something to go to before he left. Needless to say, it didn't happen and off he went to university at the end of the year.
It's a difficult one but you have to make it clear that it's all down to him if he leaves uni.