To be uncomfortable with church people giving out psalms in assembly

[Masmavi]

We moved back from abroad last year. This is the first time my son has lived in the UK. He's in Year 7 at a state school, not church-affiliated.
Yesterday he came back from school with a book of psalms. A religious group/church had attended assembly, given a talk and afterwards given out the books.
AIBU to think this is inappropriate? The school has children of different faiths and this feels like proselytising. Is this considered normal in schools here? I'm not talking about church schools.

But, you have to remember that England has a state religion. These days, I live in America, where there's no time off for Easter or other religious holidays (except Xmas, weirdly) because there's no official religion. No Church of America. But England has the Church of England, so it makes sense that it would be included in institutions such as schools, when you consider that Christianity is our official constitutional religion and that England is not, therefore, a secular state.

In the UK there’s officially no time off for religious festivals except for Christmas Day. Except for bank holidays, which are not religious, people go to work all your round.

The UK is very much a secular society, and increasingly so. We have a Christian heritage, that indeed has influenced our laws and our governance system etc but we are very much a multicultural society, with an increased number of people of multi faith, but also an increased number of people turning away from religion in general, that Christianity is on the decline.. I would say we are evolving and turning into very much a post Christian society, in this country.

YANBU.

Religion has no place in a school, unless the subject or course is theology. I am staunchly against indoctrinating kids with religion. They should be allowed to make that decision as an adult, when they are mature enough to understand the implications.

Broadly agree, though it’s not true that the only time off for religious festivals is Christmas Day - there are UK bank holidays for Good Friday and Easter Monday.

Schools must have daily collective worship, with a broadly Christian theme, unless they apply to opt out (a determination) so it’s not unusual for a Christian group to lead the assembly and give out a freebie.

Whilst it’s not unusual for assemblies to be delivered by a range of religious groups, I think it would be unusual for other religious groups to give out religious texts, unless the school is a faith school of a different faith.

You could send your child to a school that’s applied for a determination. These are usually in multicultural areas, with pupils from a range of faiths and none. But if you’re generally happy with all other aspects of the school, I’d just return the book or pop it in a charity shop.

Yes, but actually there is no statutory entitlement for employees to not work on bank holidays. So these are not automatic holidays, as it’s determined by the employer, and what they put in your contract.

After having another look, I realised this also applies to Christmas Day as well.

I can't speak for every school in England, but most primary schools adhere to it, most secondaries which are not faith schools don't. Ofsted used to report on it (cue much wrangling, when schools got a lot more notice, to make it look as if they did - I speak as a retired secondary headteacher!), but they haven't for years so the secular secondaries mostly don't. It's an absurd piece of legislation that successive governments don't seem inclined to throw out.

I prefer the UK way to some other countries, as almost all children here (even in Faith schools) learn about a variety of religions. And from a fairly unbiased perspective.
My daughter argued with her RE teacher (background of Irish Catholic) when she talked about what Protestants believe and do (my daughter was part of the Cathedral at the time).
My other daughter has a surprisingly thorough understanding of Buddhism, and cringes at a lot of rubbish spoken about that religion.

My secondary school that I went too in the 80s didn't have a "daily act of worship".
We didn't have assembly very often either.

It was directed specifically as a "daily act of collective worship" in the 1988 Education Reform Act (brought in by Thatcher- the same act that initiated the National Curriculum and took 5 days of holiday from teachers and made them into training days).

Most secondary schools cannot do daily assemblies for all pupils because they don't have the space, so it was suggested the daily collective worship could happen in form rooms. As teachers cannot be forced to conduct such things, this was obviously a non-starter.

Interestingly, the only person in any school who has the legal responsibility for ensuring the daily act of worship happens is the headteacher. S/he can be a devout atheist but is still supposed to make it happen.

It's ridiculous, isn't it?

Agree, but I'm pointing that Christianity is England's official state religion, by law, and that that's the reason you find it in schools. We are, at an official level, a Christian country, even if church attendance is low and all the things you say are true.

I thought Easter was a state holiday. Thanks for the correction!

I didn't get a tumbler, either. 😢 Now I feel I missed out!

Focusing on the good parts and leaving the bad parts has served me well in terms of not letting my blood pressure rise about things like psalms being given out in schools!

I'm a Christian who never goes to church and thinks most of the Bible is a bunch of crap, lol! By which I mean, I take no notice of the homophobic and sexist parts, which were probably written by homophobic sexists. I embrace the spirit of Christianity, which is all the good and kind stuff. There is agreement today across all scholars, including atheists, that there was a human named Jesus who preached love and kindness. Whether you believe he was the son of God or not is an entirely different matter, but this human guy was thousands of years ahead of his time and did include lepers and anyone marginalised from society. I think this human guy would have welcomed LGTBQIAPP folk and been very supportive of them. So that's the spirit of Christianity that I embrace - love to all. But I can't remember the last time I went to church or picked up a Bible. 🤭

Leaving aside all religious concerns, the Bible is very educational because there are so many references to it in our culture. I remember when I came across Levi in the Bible and was amazed that Levi wasn't just a brand of cool jeans! 😂

It’s normal but I don’t like it. I remember getting a bible at school and binning it

No. Various parts of the Tanakh (the Jewish scriptures which form the basis of what Christians call the Old Testament) were later interpreted by Christians as references to Jesus Christ, and parts of the New Testament are written to make it clear that the authors view Jesus as the fulfilment of various prophecies and claims in the Tanakh. But there’s no explicit reference to Jesus in the Jewish scriptures at all.

Jesus is referenced in the OT in books such as Isaiah even if he isn't directly named

That depends whether the Old Testament references to a Messiah actually refer to Jesus.

Who do you think they refer to?

They should have visiting talks by other faiths also. I remember we celebrated Diwali at primary school. And I remember a Jewish parent giving a talk about Hanukah and giving out dreidels.
I think we did have a christian one too.
As long as it's balanced and they're just helping kids understand these different beliefs then surely it's positive and educational.

The Angel of the Lord is a reference to Jesus and he appeared in OT

Obviously it depends on your belief

Why wouldn't it be considered normal here?? We are a Christian country, so of course it's normal! 🙂

47% Christian at the last census, 35% non religious, Christianity is on the decline

This. It's a darn sight better than most modern religions TBF.

Just read your comments but I found this 'super' unsettling the first time as well. My husband and I immigrated from the states so we didn't even have Christmas trees in our schools. Now we are raising children in Scotland with nativities and colouring in sheets of the Easter story, and a prayer group that leads assembly now and again. I did look into it as well and (in Scotland) all state schools are actually Church of Scotland. Every catchment has a Church of Scotland school and a Catholic school - no school is actually neither (leaving aside private schools). So it's just what we've signed up for in raising a family here.

They learn about loads of different religions in class (they focus on one religion each year), but the only traditions they do are Christian ones. And they have come home with various things about Christianity every year. My kids and I are actually Jewish and my children have always been the only Jewish children in their schools. In primary school we have done things for Chanukah, etc. in the classroom but always just about the cultural activities and the food, never about religion. The school is around 20% Muslim families so some of the Muslim children have run assemblies too, but again they would never hand out prayers or anything similar - that's just for the Christian groups.

They have a lunchtime prayer study group (optional) and that's the only thing I've specifically refused for my children - not that they've asked, I've just said they are not to be invited (they hand out candy and do fun activities and such so plenty of non-religious children are in the group). That crosses the line for me personally.