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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be uncomfortable with church people giving out psalms in assembly

125 replies

Masmavi · 22/01/2025 00:04

We moved back from abroad last year. This is the first time my son has lived in the UK. He's in Year 7 at a state school, not church-affiliated.
Yesterday he came back from school with a book of psalms. A religious group/church had attended assembly, given a talk and afterwards given out the books.
AIBU to think this is inappropriate? The school has children of different faiths and this feels like proselytising. Is this considered normal in schools here? I'm not talking about church schools.

OP posts:
UniversalTruth · 22/01/2025 08:35

@Meadowfinch I'm interested that your proposal to 'teach' someone to throw all leaflets in the bin seems at odds with using the occasion to encourage him to think for himself.

OP I'm glad you've been signposted to the law in UK schools. This is quite normal here.

horseymum · 22/01/2025 08:48

Would you throw a gift of a book of poetry in the bin? The Bible is key to understanding huge swathes of western literature, English language, law, history, society. You don't have to be a Christian to read it and reading it won't make you a Christian.

miffmufferedmoof · 22/01/2025 08:49

Your son has been given a free book of incredibly ancient poetry, which has played a not insignificant role in the formation of our culture, and you’re annoyed about it?

Karneval25 · 22/01/2025 09:06

The UK has an established church - the Church of England. Bishops sit in the House of Lords and the Monarch is the Head of the Established church.

The UK remains a culturally Christian country. Christian values are at the heart of the legal and judicial systems. Most older art and literature is difficult to understand without a grasp on Christianity. Much western music is inspired by Christianity.

Most schools try to expose students to other mainstream religions so they can understand what motivates other people in their communities. An understanding of world religions is essential to understanding world politics.

None of this means that anyone has to actually believe in these things. It is just an essential part of an all round education.

Your post suggests you do not understand how British society functions.

Masmavi · 22/01/2025 09:10

Meadowfinch · 22/01/2025 02:39

Your child will be presented with all-sorts of opposing opinions and faiths during his youth. This is a very good opportunity to teach him to say 'No thank you' firmly, and refuse the handout because it is a needless waste of paper or simply to put it straight in the bin if that is what he wants.

Use the occasion to show him how to think for himself and make independent choices.

Yes. But it's odd for me to have a religion promoted in school. It was an outside group at a compulsory assembly, not learning about the religion in religion lessons, as a comparison.

OP posts:
NormaleKartoffeln · 22/01/2025 09:12

It's an opportunity to discuss the concept of faiths and to also explain why most reasonable folks reject them.

Masmavi · 22/01/2025 09:12

Karneval25 · 22/01/2025 09:06

The UK has an established church - the Church of England. Bishops sit in the House of Lords and the Monarch is the Head of the Established church.

The UK remains a culturally Christian country. Christian values are at the heart of the legal and judicial systems. Most older art and literature is difficult to understand without a grasp on Christianity. Much western music is inspired by Christianity.

Most schools try to expose students to other mainstream religions so they can understand what motivates other people in their communities. An understanding of world religions is essential to understanding world politics.

None of this means that anyone has to actually believe in these things. It is just an essential part of an all round education.

Your post suggests you do not understand how British society functions.

I'm well aware of the history. I have been away for more than 20 years. From the outside the UK is presented as a diverse society and I genuinely didn't expect religion to still be promoted in schools.

OP posts:
NormaleKartoffeln · 22/01/2025 09:13

graceinspace999 · 22/01/2025 08:04

Don’t worry it’s just about learning. I learned about the Vikings and I didn’t become one.

Vikings actually existed.

Masmavi · 22/01/2025 09:14

miffmufferedmoof · 22/01/2025 08:49

Your son has been given a free book of incredibly ancient poetry, which has played a not insignificant role in the formation of our culture, and you’re annoyed about it?

Here we go. Why some people feel the need to be superior and patronising I have no idea.

OP posts:
pizzaHeart · 22/01/2025 09:15

Masmavi · 22/01/2025 00:27

I could, but he'd be very embarrassed. I found it unsettling as we've come from living in a country where religion is not supposed to be a part of school life at all. But, I see from responses it's standard here (even something that schools have to do, according to a law someone pointed out) so I won't raise it with the school. I look forward to representatives of other religions being invited and adding their tracts to his collection though!

They all wont be invited but other religions will be certainly touched in different ways.

MiraculousLadybug · 22/01/2025 09:15

NormaleKartoffeln · 22/01/2025 09:13

Vikings actually existed.

So do Christians. 😂

NormaleKartoffeln · 22/01/2025 09:16

Masmavi · 22/01/2025 09:14

Here we go. Why some people feel the need to be superior and patronising I have no idea.

Exactly, and there are definitely other works of literature worth reading, which are just as well written and not designed to oppress and control.

NormaleKartoffeln · 22/01/2025 09:16

MiraculousLadybug · 22/01/2025 09:15

So do Christians. 😂

Weren't the Psalms in the OT and thus written before the myth of christ?

Masmavi · 22/01/2025 09:17

horseymum · 22/01/2025 08:48

Would you throw a gift of a book of poetry in the bin? The Bible is key to understanding huge swathes of western literature, English language, law, history, society. You don't have to be a Christian to read it and reading it won't make you a Christian.

Clearly I didn't say I would throw ir in the bin. I find it strange, after being abroad for a long time, to have religious groups invited to assembly. I imagined that schools in the modern UK would be places of learning about religion, not promoting it.

OP posts:
Karneval25 · 22/01/2025 09:17

Masmavi · 22/01/2025 09:12

I'm well aware of the history. I have been away for more than 20 years. From the outside the UK is presented as a diverse society and I genuinely didn't expect religion to still be promoted in schools.

There is a world of difference between promoting an UNDERSTANDING of religion and promoting religion.

NormaleKartoffeln · 22/01/2025 09:17

pizzaHeart · 22/01/2025 09:15

They all wont be invited but other religions will be certainly touched in different ways.

Not sure 'touched' was the correct word when referring to (some) religions.

Yes, thats a bad joke.

NormaleKartoffeln · 22/01/2025 09:18

Karneval25 · 22/01/2025 09:17

There is a world of difference between promoting an UNDERSTANDING of religion and promoting religion.

The line can be quite blurred depending on who is delivering the message, unfortunately.

MiraculousLadybug · 22/01/2025 09:19

NormaleKartoffeln · 22/01/2025 09:16

Weren't the Psalms in the OT and thus written before the myth of christ?

Oh I have no idea, I'm a pagan. 😅 We don't go round asking "have you heard the word of the Goddess today?" so I don't really get this whole thing but I accept that Christians do and that they have this body of literature that they've gathered from somewhere that they like to share with people.

MissyB1 · 22/01/2025 09:19

Masmavi · 22/01/2025 09:12

I'm well aware of the history. I have been away for more than 20 years. From the outside the UK is presented as a diverse society and I genuinely didn't expect religion to still be promoted in schools.

Yes it is a diverse society, and that's why we teach about different Faiths and cultures in school.

Masmavi · 22/01/2025 09:22

MissyB1 · 22/01/2025 09:19

Yes it is a diverse society, and that's why we teach about different Faiths and cultures in school.

Then I hope representatives of other religions are also invited to assembly and encouraged to give out their religious texts, rather than the teacher covering everything the children need to know in class, as seems more logical.

OP posts:
NormaleKartoffeln · 22/01/2025 09:25

MiraculousLadybug · 22/01/2025 09:19

Oh I have no idea, I'm a pagan. 😅 We don't go round asking "have you heard the word of the Goddess today?" so I don't really get this whole thing but I accept that Christians do and that they have this body of literature that they've gathered from somewhere that they like to share with people.

The psalms are definitely in the OT, I was being a tad tongue in cheek, sorry.
They're essentially words of devotion and pleading to the christian god, supposedly written by a variety of people including King David. This significantly predates the christ myth.
There might well be poetic language in them but there's amazing language in non-religious texts too.

Karneval25 · 22/01/2025 09:26

Were the Psalms given out by Jews or Christians?

Notgivenuphope · 22/01/2025 09:27

MumonabikeE5 · 22/01/2025 00:23

My kid has spent all week telling me about Sikhism. She’s been drawing Gods and telling me the names. Talking about the objects that Sikhs carry. She was telling me how they choose baby names.

and this is all ok for me.
Despite being Christian.

You have a very good attitude.
I am the same. Devout Christian, churchgoer, but when my kid is older I will be delighted if he learns about other religions.

Masmavi · 22/01/2025 09:28

InDogweRust · 22/01/2025 07:59

OP, are you aware that it's still the law in English schools that there must be a daily act of collective worship?

Yes its a horrendous outdated and disrespectful requirement that should be removed and is only maintained because the church of england push hard for it.

There should be no place for religious proselytising/evangelism in schools. Religion (multifaith) should be taught as part of the curriculum, by classroom teachers and not religious leaders etc in a neutral fact based way, e.g.
"Christian believe jesus died for their sins" not "jesus died for your sins".

I agree. And until yesterday thought that was the case for non-church schools here! 😅

OP posts:
Karneval25 · 22/01/2025 09:29

NormaleKartoffeln · 22/01/2025 09:25

The psalms are definitely in the OT, I was being a tad tongue in cheek, sorry.
They're essentially words of devotion and pleading to the christian god, supposedly written by a variety of people including King David. This significantly predates the christ myth.
There might well be poetic language in them but there's amazing language in non-religious texts too.

The psalms were thousands of years before the birth of Christianity - so difficult to see how they can be characterised as words of devotion and pleading to the Christian god.

Reading this thread makes me think schools should be doing MORE on religion.