AIBU to try and prevent care home fees? Advice appreciated

[Watermelonsuns]

So my parents are elderly, both have health issues but managing well at home. My mum in particular would struggle if something happened to my dad. Recently a friend's parent had to go into a care home and as the parent owned their own house and savings they are self funding and the fees are crazy.
AIBU to try and find a way to protect my parent's property and savings in order its not all gone in care home fees in the last years?
Someone has suggested moving their property into my name but surely that would be an obvious way to avoid fees and would look dodgy? Is there another loop hole im missing? Aby advice from someone working in this area would be appreciated thanks

You can agree all you like but you’d both be wrong. When a care home has a waiting list of self funders what would be the financial sense of taking LA funded residents whose payments would be less?

But the high end ones would soon eat into the average self funders wodge. A year or 6 months down the line it would be gone, the council would of course not pay so then they'd be moved to a cheaper place. Which would be an awful upheaval,

Some is not the same as all.

The average stay in a care home is around two years. The proceeds from the sale of a family house in most parts of the country would be plenty to fund that in the best care homes.

Check the deprivation rules, you still have to do it early enough.

Or a barge, I’ve always fancied living on a barge 😁 you could also help kids out with mortgages, down payments etc.
Its all about early planning really but downsizing to something more manageable is perfectly acceptable and quite the norm

You’re the one who’s wrong. Perhaps read my post correctly.

Your maths is dodgy because a) pensions don’t come out of council tax b) the statutory personal care amount does not cover the cost of housing, heating, maintenance, furniture, food, equipment etc etc etc that are provided by homes. The disparity is nowhere near £35k py. I’d be surprised if it was a third of that.

I did read your post correctly. There are some expensive care homes which only accept self funding residents. We can continue to hurl “You’re wrong” at each other until the thread runs out or we can agree to differ. 🤷‍♀️

A barge is a terrible place for someone getting older. Very difficult to make it even minimally accessible

Still, who cares how difficult you’d be making life for yourself as long as you got taxpayers to foot the bill for your care?

Agree again @westisbest1982
if a self funded is at home but on a waiting list and a taxpayer funded person is in a hospital bed they will nab that spot over the self funded.
SS will push for them to be out of the hospital bed quicker than you hear about a free room.

The same goes for both of them being in hospital as SS do ring round for spare space for ‘their’ people whilst you’re still trying to find out what homes exist locally for your privately funded relative new to the game.

It’s a race for spaces as there just aren’t enough because there are so few that pay and homes have been closing down for a long time now due to lack of funds.

Backto central funding shake up then

Tea clipper then, 🤣 @JoyousGreyOrca

Of course either could just be for holidays and the kids get them after. Win win.

You’re totally deluded. Care homes are businesses. If a care home has a waiting list of self funders, it will ring the person at the top of the list when a resident dies before the bed’s cold. Those homes don’t even appear on social services’ lists.

We’ve been through this twice. Not deluded.
Just been in the system.
Both times for self funders and both waited ages as places were taken by people moving out of hospitals .
My df passed away before he got a place, which was a huge sadness as many of his friends were in the home near his Church.

Only my MIL got in.

I’ve done all the calcs
Councils pay a stat amount
Pensioners pay their pension minus £30 for England ( higher other areas )
that gives the total paid by Councils

Then there’s the average paid by self funders
150,000 self funders = total paid
150,000 tax payer funded = total paid
its 50/50

That’s the basic background to the workings.
All stats on Gov web, Statistica, ONS

OP when I faced this dilemma with my mum I decided to avoid care homes all together and get her a private carer at home. I funded it by releasing some of the equity in her home. It was far cheaper to have a full time live in carer than to pay for a home, mum was much happier in her own home and was well looked after with a carer she really got on with and had all to herself. It’s a really good option if you can make it work

There isn’t a statutory amount for councils to pay care homes, each set their own limit. Which will account for the wide variation in experiences in this thread as it depends on the council funding status, the average care costs in the area and the local population and supply and demand for places. My mums council for example pay £690 pw, my area pays less.

this is outsourcing and privatisation in action, like nurseries, dentistry etc. The current situation is inevitable when the country votes in successive governments who think in the short term and know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

Yes the current system is rubbish and underfunded. But anyone who intentionally deprives themselves of assets knowing that the system is breaking and yet still willing to take the risk that the system will still be there for them when they need it is bonkers. Life isn’t fair, get over it.

The system isn’t the same everywhere and there are care homes which aren’t part of it at all. Where I live there’s a handful of the most expensive care homes which aren’t available to anyone except self funders. As far as the LA is concerned they don’t exist. I don’t know why you refuse to accept that it’s not the same everywhere.

I don't think you would be able to put your parents' home in your name for the purpose of avoiding care home fees. I believes it is called something like deprivation of assets - and, as has been said, there are checks made on this.

In my opinion, it isn't really fair to expect to make no contribution towards care home costs when there is value in an estate - and people are living much longer now so some sort of contribution really needs to be made. However, I think the current system is very unfair too. To call the OP "grabby" is, I think, nasty. Most parents want to leave something to their children/grandchildren and some children/grandchildren may really need it, especially these days with the price of rented and owned housing.

I don't know why there isn't some sort of insurance system specifically designed to resolve this issue. I know we have national insurance but the demands on this are enormous. I would be quite happy to pay an insurance that would cover care home costs in the event that care is needed. Some might say "I may not need it, so I would have spent that money unnecessarily". But you could use that argument for any sort of insurance - house, house contents, holidays, etc, etc. I would count myself as lucky that I didn't have to make such an insurance claim! It gives peace of mind, and it is there if you are unfortunate enough to need it. Something must be done about the care home fees issue. They are extremely high, and it must be awful to see the greater part of a parent's estates value rapidly disappearing.

I believe it is the case that the number of elderly people requiring admission to a care home is far less than people assume, so an insurance scheme - whether private or government - might be the answer.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/elderly_parents/4911824-self-funders

Read this thread, a care home manager points out self funders do get the best rooms

The level of denial on this thread about self-funders is unreal.

So a self-funder at a home where there's tax-funded also residing may get moved to a room with a nice view, or the wallpaper's not peeling, or it's a bit bigger. Would they also get more attentive care, would they get nicer meals, would they be doing more activities that they wanted to do? Unlikely.

People underestimate how difficult it is to find a place. My dad took seriously ill at the beginning of Dec. Aged 91 he had been living at home with no carers. Suddenly he was admitted to hospital and it was clear he wouldn't be going home. We started looking at care homes. Everywhere was full with a waiting list. Then we were told actually he needed a hospice. They were full too. Turns out the hospices have day care patients, who get priority when the time comes. No way was he getting into a hospice.

So anyway they found him a bed in an NHS continuous care facility, which is of course the jackpot of end of life care, as it is staffed by nurses and it is free of charge. He has now perked up to everyone's astonishment. But he can stay there.

Anyway, my point is, it's not as easy as people think to plan where you want to go. My dad lived in a very rural area. He had hoped to go into a local care home but they were totally full.

You can’t really do much about that at this stage , this would clearly be deprivation of assets .
If one of your parents needed to go into a care home then the other parent would be fully entitled to stay in their house .
The payment would be deferred for the care home fees .

Yes I agree a barge probably wouldn't be a good idea once we get a bit frailer. A small rental with a motorhome though would be ideal. This thread has really prompted me to plan!

You're right, getting taxes to pay for social care as health care is paid for is definitely the way forward.