AIBU to try and prevent care home fees? Advice appreciated

[Watermelonsuns]

So my parents are elderly, both have health issues but managing well at home. My mum in particular would struggle if something happened to my dad. Recently a friend's parent had to go into a care home and as the parent owned their own house and savings they are self funding and the fees are crazy.
AIBU to try and find a way to protect my parent's property and savings in order its not all gone in care home fees in the last years?
Someone has suggested moving their property into my name but surely that would be an obvious way to avoid fees and would look dodgy? Is there another loop hole im missing? Aby advice from someone working in this area would be appreciated thanks

I'm an oldie now and lived alone many years . I have adult kids and yes I'd like to leave my house to them and my granchildren. I hope this happens to help with their futures when I die all is in place. But , if I get sick and unable to live alone and care for myself I have asked for my house to be sold and for me to go into a nice care home . I will be happy for it to pay for my care . Asking for my own little comfy room . If your parents hand everything over to you your parents may be put into a local council run care home which means possibly sharing a room and not always the best way for end of life which they deserve . Of course some council run homes are good and staff work hard , but sometimes there is always a but !

Tell mum and dad you want the best for them at later stage of their life . It's the kindest thing and the greatest gift you can give them .

Correction, your parents may want to take advice.

As others have said, you really want to be able to choose a care home for yourself instead of being directed to one by social services. Having cash to spend gives you that choice.

It won't matter. According to the Financial Times last week or the week before, the government is aware of all the loopholes, Trusts, transferring property, getting kids to move in, etc; and will close them in April.

I can absolutely see why they want to do this, but it's too late for them to think about it now. Realistically, only 11% of over 75s are in care, allegedly, so there's a good chance they'll die at home and not in a care home - but regardless, if they do start to need care, they or you have the option of not using the estate and instead getting private carers or you providing the care.

Otherwise, hard as it is, it makes sense to reframe this in your head. It's not an estate, it's their home, and an asset they may have to use to fund their later life if they haven't made other plans.

If you are so keen to get your hands on your parents money you do have a couple of options.
Move in with them yourself and provide all their care.
Encourage them down the assisted dying route.
I think that's about it tbh.
Just to add, councils are going bankrupt left, right and centre under the weight of care costs and SEND.

The legacy of Thatcher who basically privatised care of the elderly. You work hard, you pay your taxes, you pay for your own home/maintenance and then you have an asset which can pay for your care at exorbitant prices.

I’ve worked damned hard to pay for my house, and naturally I’d like at least some of it to help my DC once I’ve gone. There are options such as renting the house out and using the rent towards the fees, putting the house into trust etc. (but that could potentially still be considered deprivation of assets).

The “seven year rule” about gifting money to avoid tax doesn’t apply to deprivation of assets for care home fees ie selling your house for 500k and buying a 100k flat (gifting 400k to your children) after you’ve been diagnosed with dementia/3 months before going into long term care would likely be deprivation of assets. However, downsizing when you are still in good health, gifting to your DC (7 year rule re tax on gifts applies) then moving into a care home 5 years later is unlikely to be considered deprivation of assets.

If one person goes into care and someone is bona fide still living in the house (spouse, disabled adult childcare) it can’t be sold to pay for fees.

But agree with PPs - self-funding will provide more choice which home a person goes into in terms of location and quality.

My parents are deliberately not doing anything to protect their asserts so that they can have the care they would prefer should they come to need it

Also it's a kind of benefit fraud isn't it ? Hiding your money so you can claim benefits that really they could pay for themselves ?

Exactly @ComtesseDeSpair

I think the best way to avoid care home fees is to have them living with you

So who do you think should pay?

If you do find a way you will be the first...many many have tried and failed , dont bother just pay up.

If they need care within the next 7 years you won't get away with moving their money and property. Morally you shouldn't be able to do it either.

It's not just choosing which care home, it's when. Do you want either parent just sitting staring at the tv at home with just 4 perfunctory care visits a day totally reliant on you to clean and maintain their property, just left a sandwich for lunch and a microwaved ready meal for dinner and for all social interaction or would you prefer them to be able to choose to go somewhere with 24 hour care and company when they want to? Because the local authority won't fund a care home place until their really are no other options even if they are left in bed in a wet incontinence pad between visits.

There isn’t many loopholes now, lots of people think you can transfer the house to their children’s name but that’s cracked down on now. Your parents money is there so that they can chose a nice care home where they will be looked after. If the council funds it they won’t get the choice of a nice care home, it’ll be whatever the council want to fund and these are usually a lot worse. If you’re happy for your parents to go into a substandard care home then go ahead and try and find a loophole.

The only way not to pay care home fees is if your parents don't go in a care home. Are you prepared to have them live with you and you give up work (if you work) to be their full time carer when the time comes?

As others have pointed out, transferring their home into your name would be deprivation of assets.

7 years is for gifts not to be considered part of the estate for inheritance purposes

DOA can go back as far as the council likes in theory but you're probably safe if it's more than 20 years.

Honestly the homes that the council will pay for are awful. If you care about your parents even a tiny bit you'll want them to have the choice that comes with self paying.

My parents had to sell their home in the US to move into a “retirement village” type of care home after my father had a stroke. They both suffer from relatively poor health. Small bungalow style home but due to the area they made over $1 million dollars.

Fast forward only five years- we are already worrying about running out of money. Parents picked a nice home however they are paying for lots of activities and options that they don’t even use. Management are very unsupportive and there are huge staffing issues. As my mother has very little mobility their fees have increased largely year on year. Every single small thing added costs a fortune.

So in retrospect, my sister and I feel that perhaps a small, community based establishment would have been better. The more luxury style retirement homes advertise heavily but the actual care is comparable if not inferior to the smaller cheaper places.

it is really a shame to think that the assets from their much loved family home are literally going down the drain (I live abroad and my sister is not amenable to having them live with her). Even if we contributed out of our small pensions it would be like a drop in the ocean. So I understand how people want to hang on to the family home and assets.

Likewise, I’m divorced and I own my home which was the family home. If I keep it, I intend to pass the value to my children rather than have the value whittled away by the “fair deal” (Ireland’s scheme to cover nursing home costs!!!).

That “someone” is someone who’s very stupid. You can’t get away with this - the local authorities can back years and years in the finances of people if they want to. There are teams in LA’s employed to investigate potential DoA so it’s not worth the risk.

So by saying protecting dp property and assets what you really mean is protecting your inheritance so it doesn't get spent on care home fees

You could look after them yourself but transferring property into your name to avoid paying fees will be seen as deprivation of assets should they need care

Mil sold her house a couple of years before going into her care home. Thankfully she has plenty to pay and her home is really good. Excellent staff.
LA have confirmed they won't be chasing that money. But if she had none left they might? We haven't touched it.
I used to think like you so did she. She didn't want her money going to a care home. But I'd much rather choose her home than her be in a poor one.

I haven't voted as I can empathise but your DPs care is so important.

My sister moved in with my Mother to care for her 24/7. This was for the last 5 years of her life from age 89. She left my sister the house in its entirety. That did cause some resentment in the family. However the entire asset would have been lost to care home fees, she was much happier in her own home and as there are six of us we would have only got about 40k each from the sale. My Mother was very direct in how some of us also didn’t need an inheritance and that was actually very true. I lived many miles away and would not have wanted to give up my life, it’s a big ask. Culturally that’s quite common as though born in the UK culturally I’m from a different background where multi generational living is acceptable.

My MIL is older now and as much as I was raised to respect elders I do not respect this woman so if she needs care I’m not doing it.

Some people have always lived long lives. The difference is the very strong survived to a great age. Now with modern medicine the weak are kept alive for too long and it’s often cruel. That’s the real debate.

The only way to protect their property from being sold to cover care home fees is for them to move in with you, and you providing care until they pass on. Unless you’re prepared to do that, anything you do now will be considered deprivation of assets and is a crime. Unless you’re prepared to care for your parents in their old age yourself, they will have to pay for their own care.

By the time you start thinking about it its already too late. Its important that they have access to the best care that their money can provide. They have a choice of where they want to go and the best facilities their money can buy.

You need to provide care yourself if you want to protect your inheritance and this is not always the best for the person being cared for. No one is guaranteed an inheritance.

MIL pays £2,000 a week for her dementia care home - she is aggressive and delusional and its the safest environment for her. Would she want to pay £2,000 a week absolutely not but she has no capacity to make decisions anymore.

What do your parents want?

You don’t mention their view in your OP.

It does come across as ‘how do I maximise my financial situation upon their death’ rather than ‘what’s the best outcome for my mum and dad’.