To call the police to conduct a wellness check for my hoarder neighbour?

[Atmywitsend23]

I had posted last week about an awful smell in my new apartment hallway. It transpires my neighbour has been a hoarder for 15yrs and there’s amongst other things, vermin and sewage issues in her apartment. The smell is so incredibly awful that it consumes the hallway and my apartment too. I’ve contacted my landlord, the building owner and the housing regulator to try and get some help to deal with the situation. Nobody seems to be able to do much. Would it be unreasonable to call police or social services for a wellness check? Surely when things are this bad there is a significant mental health issue and someone has a duty of care in this situation?

The difficulty all to often is that various agencies have powers to take action, sometimes on the spot.

The difficulty is getting them to do it, these days usually for budgetary reasons.

I am surprised that the building owner hasnt kicked off to be honest

Environmental Health have been good and seem to be doing as much as they can. However, the HA refuses to share information with them too and without being able to see inside her property they can’t do much.

This is rubbish. They are required to do something. If they can't access the property normally they can apply for a court ordered warrant which will give them the legal right to enter the premises using force (to the property) if necessary. Not sure if I have worded that correctly but it's close!

Don't let them fob you off.

I think you should have called the police earlier so I'd do that now and keep doing it, don't tell them the story about environmental health etc., just say you are worried today, could they do a welfare check. What do the other neighbours say?

Here's the charities that might help:

https://hoardinguk.org
https://hoardingdisordersuk.org
https://ocdaction.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/hoarding-swlstg.pdf

Not sure if last one will load but anyway, to be honest it's not your job to educate yourself about hoarding or offer to help this person, I'd keep trying to engage agencies to help them. The links are just for interest. I'd say very well done for all you've tried to do so far.

Respectfully you misunderstand. It is not expensive. In proven to be to do with memories not buying for no reason, trauma and studies have proven most hoarders are in poverty, another risk factor. People with hoarding disorder hoard everything not just random things (hence bags of rubbish you mention to that person won’t be). Covid-19 restrictions caused a huge surge in hoarding disorder in the UK.

Yes it affects others but calling someone selfish, which you have not, but others “professionals” feel this is the way to go, for example “everyone’s going to die” which compounds it. When I first came to MN I made a post about being trapped by my neighbours pushchair which she refused to fold down and expected me to climb over and ran an (illegal) childcare business, I posted to understand as everyone told me I was being unfair to her, to my surprise people offered me suggestions to sort it - unfortunately I remained trapped but MN at least understood. No one in real life did a thing.

I wish I had the words to explain this disability (one of many).

Where I live there is a ban on hoarders in supported accommodation, also it’s extremely expensive (£400 a week, housing benefit is £400 a month). Its classed as a choice to put others in danger. I know of two homeless people who are homeless because of this disorder.

No. Hoarding disorder means I’m barred from such accommodation.
Am facing street homelessness again as it’s classed here as a “choice” rather than “illness”. Which is, sadly, very common in the UK

Do you own the property or rent?

If you rent put in a complaint with your landlord and also the building freeholder

I wonder if she is already known to services for this issue (which it might be rather than the actual disorder) simply because of the way you have said some things in previous posts.

Yes landlords do open windows. I live opposite a flat with severe mould (which the landlord bleaches between tenants) and a very heavy drug user (to the extent their use makes me ill). Who frequently threatens people with weapons and the police and services do nothing. He gets arrested and sent back hours later.

Please do not think I’m dismissing you in all of this. I simply wish to offer another perspective is all.

My flat was cleared without my consent, as was my friend who died. It is illegal but they justified it by saying it was so dangerous. Whilst they did get slammed by the coroner they still do this.

I probably won’t reply again, OP I do not want to derail your thread, and, have nothing more I can realistically add.

I hope this can be resolved for both of you. Take care.

From a Housing perspective you need to report to your local fire brigade that your neighbours home is likely a fire risk to your own safety. They will investigate and will force the HA to do something to protect your own life as currently with the way you describe it, your safety whilst living in your home is certainly at risk.

Whilst I feel sorry for your neighbour and her difficulties, her actions are putting your life in danger and that is what all the professionals must focus on.

I would make a formal complaint to the HA listing all the issues and that your health and safety is at risk from your neighbour and ask them to investigate and respond to you detailing what they have done to ensure you are safe to continue living in your home. If you are not satisfied with their response you can tke your complaint to the Housing Ombudsman.

I would also contact your local councillor and MP for their support.

Good luck

You can be prosecuted for letting your dog defecate on the pavement and not picking it up. Human excrement in a communal hallway must be worse than that. I'm sure the police could be involved on that basis.

The smearing is in a shared space in a private dwelling, not a public place so will be on the housing association if they own the building not the police. Hoarding will be against the terms of her tenancy agreement so they will be working with her but it will be a very slow process, they won’t want to criminalise her or make her homeless as a vulnerable person and will presumably work on small improvements and get other agencies in to help. Basically before they evict her they will have to show the court they have done everything they can to support her as hoarding is looked at as a mental health issue. Sorry op, this won’t be a quick fix and must be so uncomfortable for you to live alongside even though she can’t help it.

Hi, OP, if you can't afford to move, then definitely do post in legal to see if there's an aspect of your tenancy which your landlord is in breach of. Even the threat of action might get you a discount so you save up to move.

I'd be looking to sue the landlord. They obviously were aware of the issue and the smell but let the property to you under false pretences. Surely there are grounds for legal action here.

OP, you've been given plenty of advice here already. However my suggestion is that you move away from framing this as "my neighbor needs help" to " I shouldn't have to live with this risk of eg fire, environmental hazard, anti social behavior". So as many people have said, I would contact the HA and be saying "you need to make my home habitable and safe", not "can you help that lady". And if they cannot make your home habitable and safe, then how do they make that up to you? Reduce your rent? Can you end your tenancy agreement and move etc. Same thing to Environmental health - what is their responsibility to your safety and well-being? Anti social behavior...what can they do for you, how do they support you to be safe from anti social behavior. They won't ever tell you any more about your neighbor and they could be doing all sorts of things in the background you'll never know about. However you can keep reframing back to what they can/can't do for you. It's not your job to try and think what the solution is or should be for your neighbor.

If you know she is alive, please don't call the police. Even if they come, they'll just make onward referrals which won't achieve any more than what the HA or EH can do. You can tell social services. I am in England and we might visit or try and do some work with someone hoarding but actually making changes is really difficult. An earlier poster talks about having all their things taken away and I think there is increasing realization this is really traumatic and doesn't work long term. Social services will be likely focusing on making the situation safer and more manageable, not "fixing" it. Its also likely to be a really long term issue so if possible you may want to consider a plan to move.

https://www.evocredbook.org.uk/organisations/life-pod/001b000000gAXDkAAO

Life-Pod specialise in hoarding. Based in Edinburgh. Good luck. Sounds v stressful

But the OPs neighbour is filthy, and out of control. That's a fact. She is choosing to dump in her hands or the likes and smear it over the walls creating a biohazard, in response to the OP trying to get environmental health involved.

It sounds like you've been through hell and back and absolutely none of what I say is aimed at you or hoarders in general. But if someone was smearing shit where I live, in my safe space that I pay for and where my daughter lives, I'd do anything and everything to get her out. Without much care or thought as to what happens to that neighbour after she's gone.

I'm inclined to agree with this.
The activities of the hoarder are impacting the value of the asset belonging to the landlord. They are the ones who stand to lose out. I would be pressing on them to do something and if they don't I would move out.

@Atmywitsend23 The neighbour’s social housing landlord should have a policy that deals with anti social behaviour, which would include some or all of the behaviour you’re having to suffer. In your local authority there will be at least one councillor involved in housing. If you are getting nowhere with them, please contact your MP.

As much as you can empathise and try to get her help.
The fact is that change isn't coming.
It is admirable you are sympathetic to her condition but your problems are serious and are the only ones you can tackle with any prospect of improvement.

Your health is at risk so you need to lean on people from that angle.

Really sorry you are dealing with this. Your new home should have been a fresh start not a fresh hell!

I received some legal advice today. The take home was that it’s very difficult to go down the legal route as the situation of a private landlord in a HA owned building is a legal nightmare and most firms will either deal with private tenants or social tenants as the legal obligations they have are pretty different

You are in a private rented flat and this lady is in a HA flat, is this right? Are you the only two flats in the building? If not, how many other flats? Are you on the same floor as she is?

You said you cannot move as you used your savings to move there. Tell us more about that as there might be something you’ve not thought of. How much do you need to move?

I don't know Scottish landlord / tenant law so I may be wrong about this.

I suspect your landlord would have a difficult time finding a replacement tenant for you if you were to move, so it's in their interests for you to stay.

So have a look at who is responsible for the common areas of the building. You / the other tenant / one of the landlords?

Have a look for bigger law firms that have teams that deal with both social + privately let housing.

Can your landlord be persuaded to pay for a cleaner for the hallway? Would a HEPA filter or something like that reduce the smell in your flat? Can you safely open the windows and go out? If not is there some sort of guard that could be fitted? (Doesn't help in January but will later in the year) Can they get you some mouse traps and advice etc - to make your flat really unattractive to vermin? Do you have permission to light scented candles or similar things?

Do try the fire brigade - if they can't help her directly, they may have advice for you.

Have you spoken to the police? Sounds very difficult. Is she a HA tenant?

@Becca19962014 Do you believe that the rest of society has to cover for your inability to deal with life?

I have enough to deal with my own issues.