To call the police to conduct a wellness check for my hoarder neighbour?

[Atmywitsend23]

I had posted last week about an awful smell in my new apartment hallway. It transpires my neighbour has been a hoarder for 15yrs and there’s amongst other things, vermin and sewage issues in her apartment. The smell is so incredibly awful that it consumes the hallway and my apartment too. I’ve contacted my landlord, the building owner and the housing regulator to try and get some help to deal with the situation. Nobody seems to be able to do much. Would it be unreasonable to call police or social services for a wellness check? Surely when things are this bad there is a significant mental health issue and someone has a duty of care in this situation?

They don’t have the right to live as they please if they are impacting others. OP said the smell is overwhelming and is affecting not only the hallway but her own flat. Mental health problems or not, that can’t be allowed to continue and Environmental Health should be involved.

I was wondering this. Apparently it is a criminal offence in Scotland. I agree that calling the Police about this issue alone would hopefully lead to the Police involving Social Services and/or the NHS. Smearing faeces is a sign of severe mental illness.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/scottish-crime-recording-standard-crime-recording-counting-rules-2/pages/20/

They wouldn't be able to make any referrals without speaking to the person directly. They could only signpost OP and would likely advise her to ring social services/ housing association/ environmental health which she is already doing. It's very unlikely the police would attend (in my part of England anyway, not sure about Scotland).

Agree, but the action process is loooong (issue notice, wait notice period, escalate to stiffer notice, wait notice period etc etc) even if the outcome is resolution.

Op would be better off just opting out if that's even possible.

My advice would be move.

In addition, I would be inclined to call Adult Social Services and say that you would like to make an adult safeguarding referral for self-neglect. I've looked at the criteria for Scotland and they mention hoarding and fire risks as being among issues that count as self-neglect.

Phone your local fire brigade and asked to speak to a fire safety officer. If you explain that you believe the state of the premises is a fire hazard they can visit for an inspection.

I’d be looking to move house. If indeed there is a solution to this, I suspect it could be years away At least as a tenant you won’t be trying to sell your flat, good luck to that estate agent!

@Atmywitsend23 can you move?

I would have called police about the smearing as that seems it must be an offence
I would not call them for a welfare check. They will not do that given we know she is alive

I also think a social care safeguarding referral for self neglect is a good idea. In our area you can refer online via the local government portal and anyone can refer. I would imagine someone has already done this though.

I would not call mental health services. Sometimes people do live like this through choice and it's not a mental health issue. Mental health services would find it very hard to act without either a) consent or b) a diagnosed mental illness or more evidence than you have of there being one.

The housing association clearly will be taking action on this and they can't tell you about it because her tenancy isn't your business. The wheels of these things do grind very slowly

Isn't this a police matter now? Deliberate public defecation must be a crime 🤢?!

Agree with others, I would move. This is likely to drag on and on.
if she has capacity to manage her affairs and make decisions, however bad/ unsafe, they can’t compel her to act.
The only intervention I saw was someone with a gas cooker. Finally when gas was smelt it was obviously an immediate risk to adjacent tenants and he was moved out.

If you are renting I would also give notice and leave . You have no power to resolve this and it will just be frustrating

I have considerable professional experience of this stuff and it takes ages to resolve and will go on for probably years as ultimately it is an intractable problem and she has to live somewhere so if they evict her from her she'll do it again somewhere else.

The HA are being negligent, surely. I understand it’s difficult to enter people’s homes without their consent, etc but the my need to keep her safe.
If she’s been doing this for 15years and they haven’t accessed her property, they’re very likely to be in breach of ensuring her home is up to the current fire safety standards, etc.
A poor hoarder died recently because of these same issues. He died very quickly in a fire as he couldn’t get out and his hole wasn’t up to the latest fire safety standards

It sounds like she has been without support for quite some time.

No NT, mentally well person smears poo, and it doesn't sound like she's going to get the help she needs from the services provided so you should assume this behaviour will continue.

You would be doing yourself a huge favour to find alternative accomodation. This will only escalate the more services try to intervene.

It is hard when an adult is deemed to have capacity, and so is able to make hazardous environmental and health related choices that impact not only them but others, and hard to assess for capacity if that person is unwilling to engage, and so capacity is assumed.

There's clearly something more going on with this person and your primary responsibility should be with yourself and making sure you are safe and away from this.

Do you know if she has/had any pets in there? I sadly knew a hoarder who would not discard of his deceased pets bodies and said he wanted to keep them so he could be buried with them when he died. The police were contacted and did step in although I dare say there wasn't really a marked improvement, and we didn't stay long.

Thank you all so much for your replies!

Unfortunately I can’t move out. I used all my savings to move in here (I’m only 26 and my family can’t help).

I have been documenting everything in writing. It’s been exhausting and very overwhelming. I think part of the issue is that due to GDPR the housing association cannot share any information with me, so I genuinely have no idea how close the situation is to being resolved. Family suggested it could be that they need a court order to enter her property if she refuses access which might be the hold up.

Environmental Health have been good and seem to be doing as much as they can. However, the HA refuses to share information with them too and without being able to see inside her property they can’t do much.

I’m going to try and get some kind of legal advice I think or certainly head to citizens advice to find out where to go from here. I am also going to send a strongly worded email to the landlord that they also have a duty to fix this.

I did view the property and noticed a faint smell in the hallway at the time. However, the windows inside my apartment were deliberately all open when I viewed so I assumed my apartment was unaffected. I didn’t think much of it at the time because I guess you would open a window if you were showing someone around?

If the hoarder does not want help, they wont be able to access the property, or move them on.

I have a hoarder relative, who has no hot water, no electricity, house stacked from top to bottom and outside, and other health issues, all Adult Services did was knock on the door and talk to them.

I'm not knocking Adult Services at all, but they dont have the power

You have my total sympathies OP.
It may well be a recognised condition but when it impacts on others like this it’s simply not fair.
Wishing you all the best in getting things sorted.

Smeared shit on the walls? She should be prosecuted for that 🤢 foul.

I really feel for you, I don't know how you're still there. It sounds like she needs sectioning. Could the police not get involved now she is smearing shit on communal areas? Surely that's ground for someone to be sectioned?

Id be adding a line in your e mail to your landlord about how they were aware of this situation when you viewed the property but they deliberately tried to hide/mitigate it with the windows open.

Your question asked Should I call the police? The answer is Yes. There is a person in distress, needing urgently help.
Who know what they will do if they are smearing faeces? I don’t understand why you’ve not asked the Police to conduct a wellness check…?

It has gone beyond an environmental concern to a mental health concern, in my opinion.

Thank you for replying. I appreciate the circumstances are difficult.

I cannot stress enough that I’m not trying to make her homeless, or get her evicted or anything like that. However, as the situation stands now, I’m spending over half my monthly income on rent for a property that is now hazardous to my health because of her actions.

Is there an organisation or something I could contact to support her? I know you’ve said the system in place is not good, which I appreciate, but I’ve no idea what the alternative is? If there was a kinder alternative, I’d be open to hearing it and trying to do things that way?

You need to move on. This could take years to resolve.

Give notice. Write to the housing association. Live with a friend / family til you get your deposit back and find a new place.

She definitely needs a MASH/safeguarding referral as there are multiple concerns regarding fire safety, rodents, sanitary issues. People can choose to live in squalor but they need to assess her and make sure she’s not like this due to illness, poverty, learning difficulties etc.

If you know her name and date of birth it would be worth ringing your local mental health single point of access (SPA) and tell them you are significantly concerned about her safety and wellbeing. If she is known to services and/or has a diagnosis they may be able to arrange a home visit to assess whether she is having an acute mental health crisis.

If things are escalating and you witness her behaving erratically then absolutely call the police - they can do a section 136 and get an urgent mental health assessment done.

Are there only two flats in the building? If not, surely other tenants are equally affected and maybe you should get together as a group. You must have visitors too, how awful for everyone really.

Otherwise, it's time to get out asap. I realise this is an expensive option for you, but honestly I'd get a loan. There is nothing that would keep me in a place smelling of sewage with excrement on the walls of the common areas. Getting things sorted could take months. Are you prepared to wait it out like that?