To be frustrated that people don't understand that individualism is not compatible with a collectivist mindset?

[User09678]

Which we need to solve most of our most critical and existential issues?

Agreed but to cut the root of the issue would be to create an alternative to capitalism which is not communism.
You can empathise with the apathy of often good people enjoying their little crumbs.

I am interested.

Expand please?

Was having this debate with DC in the car last weekend as we talked about AI and how the UK has changed over the last 30 odd years into consumerism and need for "stuff" trumping progress.

Agree. The need for something to be right for an individual is now seen to trump what is right for the group. And that is damaging progress forward.

Can't we just have a mixed economy?

Totally agree. I think the rise of individualism has had a terrible effect on society.

Agreed, but collectivism with a focus on what is good, overall, for society would take us into very dark corners of human ethics and morality.

I once had a history teacher who was fully convinced and vocal that a dictatorship is better for a country in the long run than democracy with a multi-party system.

There was something on the radio earlier about 1 in 5 wishing we were in a dictatorship in UK. If the recent democratically elected idiots are anything to go by that is quite concerning.

I do think jobs and pay would be a good place to start restructuring society. Jobs that care for others should be given highest pay, while sales and less ethically clear jobs should be paid on a sliding scale of over all net benefit to society. The economic model that profit for board members trumps all has encouraged societal greed and an ethical vacuum. I don't know why but males seem to be less likely to think of others meaning women are doing the majority of the care roles. Hearing social care described as "low skill" all of last week was really revolting to me.

Distributism?

A benign dictatorship - why not?

In what direction... what's your starting point?

Is there any way back from this level of individualism?

What the individualists don't think about is that most of the time they can only get away with it because the rest of us follow social norms and constructs (and no, that doesn't make us sheep, as they claim).

Take something simple like parking on double yellow lines, because it's more convenient for them and that's all they care about. They can only do that because the rest of us don't. If we all ignored the lines the space wouldn't be there for them.

When indiviualism rather than concern for others takes over, that's when structures collapse. Margaret Thatcher and her 'there's no such thing as society' didn't help.

It doesn’t help that much of the left are the largest proponents of individualism though.

Rights to everything but no responsibilities. We need collectivism, as long as it does not require me to do anything basically, someone else needs to do something.

Rolling back the state. The state took over a lot of things that people, families and communities used to do themselves.

Would probably be very painful and might not even work now though since everyone is atomised. The fact is most people don’t have kin networks now which is how humans worked for most of history.

You would help someone in your village because a) they are probably related b) you would depend on them for help one day and c) loss of social standing if you didn’t.

Now? I don’t even know who my neighbours are, if I didn’t help them nothing would happen as I might not even see them again.

If societies collapse then the people that will survive are the ones who help each other so this problem might resolve itself.

This is the same as the vaccine debate; those who risk their kids by not protecting them do so safely in the knowledge the rest of society will protect them with herd immunity. Now that is breaking down which seems to be reflective of wider societal issues.

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But in turn, you'd have higher uptake if trust wasn't so low.

And as a result of individualism and the breakdown of a sense of community, relationships are less stable and mental health issues in society are massively increased

It's the same with community trust though. We've been turned against each other rather than holding big businesses, oligarchs and billionaires responsible for hoarding money and not putting any back into the community. Turning on people who earn up to £150k on here is really common, when in reality there are plenty of people with far far more who pay less in taxes pulling all of the strings. Mass media loves to spread fear and divide the communities we used to rely on, so we buy more and trust each other less. Life becomes one big competition, yet we are constantly told not to compare ourselves to others. No wonder we have so much bad mental health.

The nature of dictatorship ensures that it's never benign. Democracy is really just a dictatorship of the majority, and it's as benign as it gets, certainly compared to the alternatives.

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely and all that

I am just reading it now @user09678.

I have not thought in those terms before. It appeals to me.

I will do some reading!

I guess it depends on your definition of individualism!

why can’t we have both?

What also compounds the issue OP is that groups of people who are supporting individualism forcibly change the meanings of words to suit themselves.