To think natural consequences are frustratingly ineffective???

[Motherofrascals]

Or maybe I just have super resilient kids who give zero fucks?

I'm rather environmentally minded. I don't buy much and take care of what I have. I'm trying to teach my children the same values. They're still pretty little (KS1) and absolute whirlwinds with zero observation skills. I have no idea how they can step on stuff and not even seem to notice, I'd definitely be making a donation to the swear jar if I stepped on a hot wheels car barefooted.

Originally I liked the idea of 'natural consequences', ie if you break something and it can't be fixed then we don't have that thing anymore. If you refuse to put on your shoes you get cold feet (we've not ever had this, was just an example I read on here recently), if you delay and delay when I'm trying to get us out of the house then you miss your playdate. However, they genuinely do not care. When they break something through careless/reckless behaviour I don't replace it (example would be a self inflating whoopee cushion they got in a party bag. I said if they treat it too rough it'll break, it did, it went in the bin, noone was even slightly sad despite having played with it non stop for days and giggling like fools every time). If something is a genuine accident then that's a different conversation imo.

At the moment I feel like the only person affected by natural consequences is me. I dislike the waste from broken things, I'm them one uncomfortable being late or cancelling last minute, I wouldn't want them getting sick being outside with no shoes on or having to carry them

They're polite, imaginative, awesome little people in so many ways, and a huge part of me admires that they're so resilient/will make a toy or game out of anything. But this lack of caring about their things/even slightly regretting when something is broken is grating on me. We're not a well off family. We don't have a lot of stuff. I really thought that would mean someone would be motivated to care for what they do have but it doesn't seem to work that way at all.

Realistically, while I applaud your goal of being environmentally minded, for the examples you give I'm not surprised your kids don't mind. Whoopee cushions and hotwheels cars are examples of small tat that they will have dozens more of, even in a household that tries not to buy much. I think you can't do much but try to disengage from those moments and not let it upset you.
Re the playdates, I think it's a bit unfair that you're cancelling last minute on another child to teach yours natural consequences. The other child has done nothing wrong but still has to suffer the same consequence! In this case I would say to your kids that it's too unfair to make commitments that can't be kept, so there will be no more playdates organised for x amount of time.

Does this lack of concern about not breaking things extend to things that aren't there's specifically - plates, your stuff, lamps, etc?

I think that I get a bit too upset about breaking things, so maybe it's for the best that they don't, but I guess if it rips over into being reckless with things and not looking after useful things then that doesn't sit right with me.

I like natural consequences when we’re talking about standard childhood misbehaviour but I wouldn’t let it get as far as missing play dates. That’s just teaching them that it’s ok to be rude and disrespectful of other peoples time and arrangements you’ve made didn’t really matter anyway.

The whoopee cushion thing is fine. They just didn’t care about it much, which is good when it’s only a whoopee cushion. Better that they weren’t fussed than they turned it into a drama and showed no resilience. I agree about the waste, but stuff like that is wasteful anyway and you could use it to teach them about recycling instead.

That's fair re the playdate, I was just reeling off random examples. We've not let another kid down, but we have missed out on outings that I had tickets for and it just got to the point where I said okay we're not going and they both were completely non plussed. The one which regularly happens is the being careless and things breaking.

I appreciate your point about these being small examples, other ones would be the doors ripped off the dolls house when someone rolly-polly'd into them. Not bothered. They were bought ceramic cups with their name on, I kept moving it from the edge of the table/reminding them it would break if it fell. It got knocked, fell and broke. Either that or it's my/the house stuff they break, which obviously is zero concern to them but matters to me. I think a certain amount will happen with having kids, it's normal, but sometimes it's the multiple times a similar action has had the same result and it's frustrating! Trying to teach them to take care of their stuff in the hopes that taking care of my stuff and the shared stuff will follow. Maybe my expectations were off. I thought by 6 they might have a bit more self awareness.

Have you tried getting somewhere super early and waiting and telling them if they get better with listening you can leave later and they can have fun at home for longer?
Idk my kids hate being late but I'm just throwing wild ideas out here!

I would just try to chill a bit - you sound a bit full on. 🤷‍♀️

I am up for giving it a go!!

I was more just giving random examples of natural consequences I could think of. The main one I'm struggling with is taking care of stuff so it doesn't break. Which doesn't seem to be computing in the slightest. They say sorry, they're polite, but then they're over it and they never say 'ah I'm missing that toy' or act more carefully next time or whatever. It's just out of sight out of mind

😂 okay thanks. I mean when I was a kid and I didn't listen to my mother she would either scream, wrench my arm off or something else like that. Am just trying to do things differently, and also take care of the planet.

Kids live in the moment.

Adults plan things.

They get caught up in what they are doing. You know that you've spent a lot of money on tickets to X and you can't get that money back. They don't care about that (yet) because the thing that is occupying their mind right now is what is important.

If you want them to go to place x because it's important to you then you need to manipulate them into it.

Everyone knows a coat is what you wear when your mum is cold. If you go out and take their coats/gloves etc then they can ask for them. Many kids do run hot and my DS usually wore shorts in winter.

Natural consequences are a fantasy dreamt up by soi-disant ‘gentle parents’, so that they can avoid the idea of punishment.

But they don’t mean it. Run into the road and suffer the natural consequence, don’t wear shoes and be screaming with incipient frost bite, play near an open flame and get 3rd degree burns etc etc.

Far better to have sensible boundaries and sensible consequences (what used to be called punishments).

Obviously explain why putting shoes on is sensible but then make them do it and have a consequence that they care about if they don’t.

Houses run according to the whims of child emperors are not nice for anyone, especially the children.

Maybe it’s your examples that are unreasonable, and I don’t know the ages of your DC to gauge whether your expectations are unreasonable. I agree being environmentally conscious is applaudable, I’m the same way.

The whoopie cushions are made very cheaply and wouldn’t matter how gently it is treated, it will break in a few days. Its function is to provide laughs, which it did. You’d never have bought one as they are disposable tat.

On the ceramic cups, if these are primary age or younger, it’s kind of the parent’s job to put these things in a safe spot when play is going on so they don’t get broken?

Good luck, can't say if it will work 😭 Im thinking maybe the boredom of waiting would make them think twice but I'm probably wrong but I feel for you!

Hopefully there will be a wiser mumsnetter!

Are you saying you would punish a child that ran into the road, got burned, or frost bite?

I honk the natural consequence has to be one which inconveniences them. In your example with the ceramic cup, assuming that the offending child broke their own cup, then E.g.

When it is drink time, give the children who take care of the cup a drink straight away. Praise them for taking care of their cups and how pleased you are. Make the expectation very clear in a positive way. Then go and get a boring cup for the child who broke theirs and give them the drink or

Replace the broken ceramic cup with the most boring plastic cup that you can and explain that when they show they can take care of it, you'll consider upgrading it.

@Boomer55 you know natural consequences is basically being chilled about things that happen and allowing whatever the result is to be the result without further reaction, right?

So you're playing roughly with something and it breaks...it's now broken. Noone puts you in timeout or yells or rants about it. It's just broken.

Natural consequences is about as chilled as it gets.

I think you need to mix it up a bit. Natural doesn't always work. They live in the moment still at that age.

@LoremIpsumCici ,

No they would be wearing shoes, not getting burned or frost bite, as I would enforce safe behaviour by non-natural consequences.

If they do keep breaking the same thing though, it might be best just to put those away til they're older.

Ah, that is an interpretation that I wasn’t familiar with. Natural consequences in lieu of punishments isn’t usually applied to accidents.

I find you sometimes have to egg up the 'natural' consequences. So "I can't buy you that until you're sensible enough to be careful with your things, maybe if you stop breakingthe stuff you already have, I can reconsider" would still be a natural consequences in my book, as there's still a direct link to the unwanted behaviour.

For playdates, I would just arrange them at your house for a while, to my kids that's a consequence because they like to go to other people's houses, but it means the other child doesn't miss out and you don't have to stress.

Often this stuff matters more to you than to them as you are discovering.

At that age they are not gping to care about the environment. Even at 16 my dd can't see how it will affect her.

Days out, they don't know what they're missing, whereas you do.

Days out, they don't know what they're missing, whereas you do.

Natural consequences only work in some situations. In others, as you say, the consequences are too small to really have an effect or would be too big to be ‘worth it’ as a lesson.
Some things are just non-negotiable, like putting on shoes or a coat in winter.
Other things need a direct made-up consequence to the child, eg. they won’t care if they break a lamp, but you would as it’s expensive and belongs to you. So the natural consequence of ‘oh well, we just don’t have a lamp anymore now’ won’t work. So the consequence is either you get angry at them and express your disappointment (which is horrible for them and could be enough, depending on the child) or you punish them in some way so it has a direct effect on them.