To think natural consequences are frustratingly ineffective???

[Motherofrascals]

Or maybe I just have super resilient kids who give zero fucks?

I'm rather environmentally minded. I don't buy much and take care of what I have. I'm trying to teach my children the same values. They're still pretty little (KS1) and absolute whirlwinds with zero observation skills. I have no idea how they can step on stuff and not even seem to notice, I'd definitely be making a donation to the swear jar if I stepped on a hot wheels car barefooted.

Originally I liked the idea of 'natural consequences', ie if you break something and it can't be fixed then we don't have that thing anymore. If you refuse to put on your shoes you get cold feet (we've not ever had this, was just an example I read on here recently), if you delay and delay when I'm trying to get us out of the house then you miss your playdate. However, they genuinely do not care. When they break something through careless/reckless behaviour I don't replace it (example would be a self inflating whoopee cushion they got in a party bag. I said if they treat it too rough it'll break, it did, it went in the bin, noone was even slightly sad despite having played with it non stop for days and giggling like fools every time). If something is a genuine accident then that's a different conversation imo.

At the moment I feel like the only person affected by natural consequences is me. I dislike the waste from broken things, I'm them one uncomfortable being late or cancelling last minute, I wouldn't want them getting sick being outside with no shoes on or having to carry them

They're polite, imaginative, awesome little people in so many ways, and a huge part of me admires that they're so resilient/will make a toy or game out of anything. But this lack of caring about their things/even slightly regretting when something is broken is grating on me. We're not a well off family. We don't have a lot of stuff. I really thought that would mean someone would be motivated to care for what they do have but it doesn't seem to work that way at all.

If the only issue is them breaking things amd they are polite and awesome kids it looks like you are doing a good job parenting them. If they don't care about 'stuff' maybe they have too much. KS1 is also very young, they wouldn't have a clue about the value of things yet but it will come in time. Maybe look at some books or videos with them about the environment to educate them on the impact of waste.

@Motherofrascals you say they are polite, nice kids.

Other than that, are they well enough behaved in public and at school, do they (mostly) do what you ask them to do- concrete demands, not wooly "please be careful"- , do they tidy up after themselves etc.?

If you're so bothered about the "small stuff" just remove the opportunity for what you can. Plastic cups instead of fancy ones. All kids need a drink and need to learn how to use one, they do not need a fancy one.

See, I find the whole “ I can see you’re struggling” spiel as passive aggressive nonsense that’s harder for children to understand. I wouldn’t go with the “acting like a baby” phraseology but I find children find the latter far more comprehensible. Frequently they aren’t struggling with not playing, they just don’t want to, and I’m very comfortable labelling that behaviour as poor/not good enough, and that I will take action (holding hands or whatever) until I can trust them.

I think they need firm, explicit guidance as to what is acceptable and non acceptable behaviour, and using more black and white terms such as good and bad generally works much better until they are old enough to understand that their might be nuance. In many cases, they need to behave properly well before they are old enough to logically think the way “natural consequence” style parenting needs them to.

And I don’t see why time out or naughty step aren’t logical natural consequences. Not playing nicely with your buddies? A natural consequence is that you’ll be removed from the situation to allow others to play happily. It’s more comprehensible and immediate than many other options.

Perhaps the natural consequence to breaking the lovely ceramic cup is that they have to have plastic sippy cups again? They might be really embarrassed of those, they might not care, but your stuff doesn't get broken and you're not clearing up drink. That's the obvious consequence to me.

The "natural consequence" of a kid being naughty in my house is that mummy gets angry. And you don't want mummy angry.

The whole method forgets to teach the kid they're being a pain in the arse to others

At the same time I've noticed parents are interfering too much in their children's social interactions, so kids are unable to feel the natural consequences of not being a good friend etc.

I think it’s just that your expectations of tiny children are off. At six, they are going to break stuff, act impulsively, and live in the moment. They aren’t going to grasp the cost of a day out, the implications of inconveniencing people, or care about the environment!

They’re not natural consequences. They’re consequences artificially imposed.

The consequence of not playing nicely might be that nobody wants to play with you any more. You’re right, it isn’t immediate and my opinion is that natural consequences work in some situations better than others. It’s also not a quick fix.

If they aren't bothered, there's not much you can do. I well remember my eldest refusing to tidy up his toys. He was about three. I tried persuasion, everything I could but no, he'd rather dance around doing his own thing and not tidying up. So I said 'if you don't help me tidy these toys up (they were Sticklebricks if I remember rightly) then I will have to throw them in the bin.'

My son said 'well, that means YOU have to pick them all up and YOU have to replace them because they aren't yours.' Sometimes you are just on a hiding to nothing....

I think that’s really doing down the average 6 year old. 6 year olds aren’t tiny. They are more than capable of treating things carefully (bet you they don’t fling electronics around) and understanding they are being a pain in the arse to others. I think more abstract concepts such as “environment” and “expensive day out” are trickier - and that’s why they need to JFDI. In depth Understanding comes later.

Breaking a toy and not then having it is a natural consequence. It doesn't mean that the child will care in the moment but over time they may learn that they need to be more careful about breakable items.

Refusing to take them out because they didn't get ready on time is not a natural consequence. Maybe it's a logical consequence - though generally people don't give up on an outing just because they are late. A natural consequence of not being ready on time is that you are late or miss the event because you can no longer get there.

A natural consequence is something you LET happen, not something you choose to do.

You seem to be expecting children to learn from one event - they don't, they need many repetitions over time.

For younger children you may just decide to avoid certain things - like having a breakable cup nearby. Use plastic. If they don't get ready on time, maybe it's because they don't have your understanding of time. You therefore engineer it so they are ready on time.

You should scaffold your children to succeed and have realistic expectations for them. Also calmly explain things- I'm moving the breakable mug because you might knock it over, rather than warning them of what might happen. They will learn from what you say, you don't need to engineer situations they will be upset over.

Trust me, it doesn't come naturally, it's why I stopped at 1 because I would have been crap with 2. It gets easier as they get older. I have to really consciously do the fun mummy thing. Deep breath, ignore that kids being kids and wanting to act feral is like nails on a chalkboard for me and really try. Everyone has their own "one thing" that they find hard and the only reason I manage it 99% of the time is because I was having a rough time of it and realised I was becoming shouty mum and so I promised myself that if I was going to get just one thing right each day, it was trying to be nice and gentle before having to be more direct and authoritative amd thinknofnit like a process. It's hard! Most relationships, people are working with you, kids seem to work against you! Patience and drawing the line between treating them like people and asking nicely and firmly telling them what is going to happen is hard, especially without the mum guilt.

Sorry for the waffle, the gist is basically that being a mum is hard and I'm sure you're doing better than you think and will one day have a lovely adult child and know that you've done a good job. Hang in there x