To think London is in a major decline?

[Phannyphart]

I’ve lived in London (zone 2) for 10+ years. It’s always been pretty ‘real’ here but since the end of covid really everywhere just seems so, so awful.
Dog shit everywhere, spit everywhere, council owned parks closed and locked, people littering more than ever before. Get on a bus and it’s just people screaming in to a FaceTime on top volume, people blasting TikTok. Kids being stabbed in broad daylight, people shooting up heroin near the nearby primary school. The area has a lot going for it but it really seems wherever I go there is an awful decline.
Has anybody feeling the same actually moved out? Do you regret it?

HH was still pretty rough when I lived on Rosendale Road (because it was cheap) in the early 2000s!

HH is super gentrified these days. Think farmers markets and expensive retro (junk) furniture shops. West Norwood is on the way too. Specialist butchers / wine shops etc. Tulse Hill not so much!
I'm SE London and I absolutely don't recognise the London described in the OP. I've lived in SE London my whole life and I reckon everywhere has improved (if gentrification can be called an improvement) or at least stayed the same. I don't think it's dirty and crime levels are WAY lower than when I was a kid 30 years ago. I pretty much never feel unsafe walking around (but I'd never walk through a park on my own in the dark)
Currently living in zone 4 but over the years have lived in zones 2,3,4 &5. Always SE except for a while in Streatham Hill. I work in Westminster. I LOVE London.

Do you have data to back it up, or just anecdotes

London, like paris are both massively improved cities to cycle round, and the improvements are continuing

I don’t want to derail the thread, but for those of you living in London with teenagers, a genuine question, how do you cope with the threat of your teenagers becoming a victim of knife crime?

Is it a real concern where you live and what measures do you take?

We live very rurally and the crime rate is very low, but obviously bad things happen wherever you are, but it’s quite rare here.

Knife crime is pretty rare unless your kids are involved in gangs. At least in my area. Muggings are a potential risk so I tell my kids not to walk along on their smart phones in quieter areas (like parks). I don't actually know anyone who's kid HAS been mugged but I'm aware it happens.
Honestly if you watched the news you'd think kids are all stabbing each other day in and day out but really thats not the case.

Knife crime is very localised and tends to operate between gangs. When you hear of a teenager being stabbed it is nearly always gang related.

It is quite common for boys to be mugged for their phones by teenage gangs. My DS has been. We just teach them to hand over whatever the mugger wants, no questions asked.

It is quite rare for girls to be mugged. I haven’t heard of it happening to any girls.

This. You just make sure your kid knows to hand over their phone/ money. And if they feel unsafe at all to duck into a shop

It is sad for those involved, but the fact is that unless you are involved in these gangs in some way you really aren’t at risk. The most vulnerable at risk are young black teens / rising teens on specific estates where many join because it is the way to protect themselves. Families with ‘at risk’ boys on high risk estates often move if they can . It is for them that I most want the gang issues sorted out.

But if you do not live on a particular estate and are not an at risk demographic, it isn’t a problem.

We lived between 2 estates that had gang activity, my Dc knew (but were certainly not friends with the one who was also a perpetrator ) two boys from their school who got stabbed , one fatally. And the mother of one of those boys (who was a good lad who got caught up protecting others) had tried repeatedly to move. But they and their (very diverse ) group of friends had happy independent social lives, and did very well at school.

Street wise: walk away from trouble (at the first sign) , don’t look at people, don’t stare, don’t go around be-decked in expensive street-favoured clothes and accessories.

I walked freely through the estates without bother: way beyond the radar / interest of any criminal activity, being not a customer for drugs, a rival dealer, or wearing a desired puffa coat, watch or trainers.

It is a serious problem for those who can’t escape being at risk. But the fact is that unless you are at risk it isn’t much of a risk at all.

London has a residential population of millions. You don’t see all those ordinary lives in the media.

Herne Hill was always mixed until it fully gentrified. There were some very middle class places there in the 90s (like the French restaurant by the station, the cafe on the edge of Brockwell Park). The then-head of the civil service lived there in the 90s. If I was getting a taxi back to Brixton at night I'd have to pretend I was going to HH until we got too close for them to change their mind.

Herne Hill was always in two parts though, with families on the Dulwich Village side sending their kids to the private schools. That's always been pretty well to do.

https://thecritic.co.uk/the-strange-death-of-cockney-london/#:~:text=As%20of%202024%2C%20the,known%20as%20the%20cockney%20diaspora.

I go to Herne Hill occasionally (every couple of months generally) and I always think how middle class it seems!

Has anyone ever bought stab proof clothes. They cost a few hundred pounds.

I've mainly lived in London since 1970 and believe that most areas have become either much better or much worse.
Many previously affordable areas (for both buying and renting) are now so hopelessly gentrified that people earning even normal London salaries can't live there. I compare this with our first home in London which was in a street of 3 bed terraces that still had rented houses. To me gentrification is as much of a blight as rough areas: no proper food shops, no real community, no NHS dentists, and they attract muggers and burglars.
Even before people cashed in on council flats and ran for the suburbs there were people who simply could not afford to buy in London and moved out, however low people now imagine house prices were in the mid-70's. The flight to the suburbs has been going on since the post-war housing boom as many perceived the "leafy suburbs" offered a better life.
For most people in normal jobs (i.e. well under £100k) unless you are already in social housing it is simply not possible to move a family to a house in much of greater London. Central London is simply a no go area for most of us.
We live in Zone 4, in an area that I would not even have considered in the 1970's or 80's - previously mainly working class and perceived as rough. However it is friendly and has good local amenities and NHS services. I'd take care if I went out at night; there are muggings and there have been murders, but this is true in many places now. You can't always believe a place's reputation, and there is huge variation within a few streets.

It was as rough as a badger's arse when I was a boy.
Not as rough as Brixton was about the best that could be said for it.

Why is central london a no go area? Do you mean in terms of living there? Not just hanging out there?

I agree, a lovely place to retire to

In terms of living there. And many of us simply don't bother to go there at all, unless we're going to the theatre of something. For example most of us shop online. I can't see any reason why people would want to hang out in central London, it's grubby and noisy. I suppose we might go to a gallery, museum or restaurant, though most of us are priced out of the latter too.
Obviously there are particular lovely shopping enclaves like Burlington Arcade and that end of Bond Street, but far too expensive for most of us.

All sorts of different demographics leave london over the years - white working class being just one, but to say there are none left, as that article claims, is simply false, and implying that white working class people leaving london is the reason for its so called decline, is highly questionable.

My visits are very specific to the velodrome though 😂

One person's 'noisy and grubby' is another person's 'buzzy and lively'.

I feel like it is The Town Mouse v the Country Mouse.

Also, the word 'gentrified' means different things. I would not particularly enjoy living in Belgravia or Holland Park as they are staid and the shops and restaurants expensive and high end. I much prefer up-and-coming areas like Shoreditch which have a wider selection of restaurants and shops. I don't expect streets to be spit-free or without dog fouling and probably don't notice it much other than to step aside.

I would be thrilled to live in central London amidst the museums, theatre and teaming restaurants. Almost everywhere in Central London is near a Royal Park which is just amazing for green space. There is a choice of public transport to take you anywhere.

I would live in Central London after all the kids have left home because right now, we need to be near the schools, be able to drive easily and our house requires more bedrooms and storage. As a retired couple, it would be so nice to have all amenities at our doorstep.

The parks and the river are also lovely

True, but the Thames runs all through Lond
on, through many suburbs. I actually live overlooking the river to the west of central London, looking across to a park. I can get a bus, underground or overground pretty quickly to the centre.

@blueshoes I mean the gentrified that means people don’t use their local state schools or shops, don’t engage with the community and park two huge cars in front of their narrow £1.4m terraced house.