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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think London is in a major decline?

642 replies

Phannyphart · 17/01/2025 12:07

I’ve lived in London (zone 2) for 10+ years. It’s always been pretty ‘real’ here but since the end of covid really everywhere just seems so, so awful.
Dog shit everywhere, spit everywhere, council owned parks closed and locked, people littering more than ever before. Get on a bus and it’s just people screaming in to a FaceTime on top volume, people blasting TikTok. Kids being stabbed in broad daylight, people shooting up heroin near the nearby primary school. The area has a lot going for it but it really seems wherever I go there is an awful decline.
Has anybody feeling the same actually moved out? Do you regret it?

OP posts:
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5
VoodooRajin · 17/01/2025 17:39

I think it's just what you're choosing to notice, start looking for good things

Anniedash · 17/01/2025 17:54

The whole country is in decline. The UK is fast on its way to becoming a third world country.

We have millions of people say around at home because they are too sad to work, living off an ever shrinking base of taxpayers. We are importing a million low skilled migrants who are a net drain on the economy. They are brought in because lazy here witn work. An ever smaller number of net contributors pay for them and then pay for the incoming net taker migrants who will never earn enough to sustain their use of public services.

At the same time we have scummy politicians, civil servants and government officials stealing off that same base of shrinking net contributors.

Millionnaires are leaving the country and the minority that are keeping this gravy train going for the majority will eventually also give up.

This country is doomed. Of course it is looking rough.

LlynTegid · 17/01/2025 17:59

Anniedash · 17/01/2025 17:54

The whole country is in decline. The UK is fast on its way to becoming a third world country.

We have millions of people say around at home because they are too sad to work, living off an ever shrinking base of taxpayers. We are importing a million low skilled migrants who are a net drain on the economy. They are brought in because lazy here witn work. An ever smaller number of net contributors pay for them and then pay for the incoming net taker migrants who will never earn enough to sustain their use of public services.

At the same time we have scummy politicians, civil servants and government officials stealing off that same base of shrinking net contributors.

Millionnaires are leaving the country and the minority that are keeping this gravy train going for the majority will eventually also give up.

This country is doomed. Of course it is looking rough.

I'm not sure that's being kind to third world countries to compare.

catcafeatno10 · 17/01/2025 18:07

People are so doom and gloom, but take a walk around Chelsea, or Notting Hill, Hampstead, Knightsbridge - or basically anywhere in the West End at any time - the streets are heaving and no sign that people aren't spending money. It's the same in so many parts of London.

It's a very walkable city, unlike many other capitals.

I'm sorry to say this, but you need to go to other cities in the U.K. if you want to see the real declining state of the nation. Liverpool for instance - the harder lifestyle is visible on people's faces. Many more overweight people everywhere. People actually look different. So many drunks staggering everywhere as well. And groups of women who think it's normal to wander about the Liverpool One shopping centre area in their pyjamas and with rollers in their hair. This is Britain. Where else would you see that? It's like another world.

catcafeatno10 · 17/01/2025 18:08

And don't even get me started on Glasgow or Aberdeen.

Newmoon8 · 17/01/2025 18:11

LlynTegid · 17/01/2025 17:59

I'm not sure that's being kind to third world countries to compare.

Edited

I am from a third world country which I left more than 15 years ago and I am afraid to say this is true. The UK is becoming a third world. I do worry for our children future

suburburban · 17/01/2025 18:11

Anniedash · 17/01/2025 17:54

The whole country is in decline. The UK is fast on its way to becoming a third world country.

We have millions of people say around at home because they are too sad to work, living off an ever shrinking base of taxpayers. We are importing a million low skilled migrants who are a net drain on the economy. They are brought in because lazy here witn work. An ever smaller number of net contributors pay for them and then pay for the incoming net taker migrants who will never earn enough to sustain their use of public services.

At the same time we have scummy politicians, civil servants and government officials stealing off that same base of shrinking net contributors.

Millionnaires are leaving the country and the minority that are keeping this gravy train going for the majority will eventually also give up.

This country is doomed. Of course it is looking rough.

I think you are right unfortunately

suburburban · 17/01/2025 18:13

BackoffSusan · 17/01/2025 16:27

@suburburban yes youre right Stoke Newington had a terrible reputation in the 70s. But its very popular now, even without decent transport links, you're looking at 1.5million for a 3bed house and that's for a house near a crack den with someone using your doorstep as a toilet. No thanks.

Yes, even if it is gentrified there are still the social problems

Newmoon8 · 17/01/2025 18:13

catcafeatno10 · 17/01/2025 18:07

People are so doom and gloom, but take a walk around Chelsea, or Notting Hill, Hampstead, Knightsbridge - or basically anywhere in the West End at any time - the streets are heaving and no sign that people aren't spending money. It's the same in so many parts of London.

It's a very walkable city, unlike many other capitals.

I'm sorry to say this, but you need to go to other cities in the U.K. if you want to see the real declining state of the nation. Liverpool for instance - the harder lifestyle is visible on people's faces. Many more overweight people everywhere. People actually look different. So many drunks staggering everywhere as well. And groups of women who think it's normal to wander about the Liverpool One shopping centre area in their pyjamas and with rollers in their hair. This is Britain. Where else would you see that? It's like another world.

No other country, going out in pijamas is only seen here

Sunholidays · 17/01/2025 18:22

Newmoon8 · 17/01/2025 18:13

No other country, going out in pijamas is only seen here

I have seen it lots in Melbourne

catcafeatno10 · 17/01/2025 18:23

At least of you live in a crap area of London, you can probably walk quite quickly to a more pleasant area and sort of cheer yourself up a bit in this way. Or get the tube or bus. It's easy to get around and people have options where they want to meet, or spend more time.

What is depressing are too many average sized towns across England, where its the same old same old town centres with same old same old chain shops in every one. That's if most of the shops haven't been boarded up. All young people can do is hang around in these shite town centres with no atmosphere. And train fares are so ridiculous, they can't get out of their towns very often.

catcafeatno10 · 17/01/2025 18:33

@Sunholidays - I was also in Australia recently and was quite shocked at how Melbourne has gone downhill since last time I was there 20 years ago. Especially suburbs like Fitzroy and St Kilda.

PointsSouth · 17/01/2025 19:11

Coldanddamp · 17/01/2025 13:11

Brixton is way better than in the 80s

😁

It is.

Because London is so big and so ever-changing, the reputation and fortunes of each district cycle.

I grew up in Wandsworth in the seventies. It was pretty down-at-heel. All the big Victorian houses around the Common were originally built for newly-rich tradespeople and their families who needed to be within reach of the centre, but who wanted to live where there were trees and open spaces. By the mid-twentieth century, that was the inner city. You couldn't give away a huge Victorian house at that time. No one wanted red brick and stained glass porches and tiled fireplaces and coving and sculleries. The houses were split into flats for the less-prosperous.

So the reputation of the neighbourhood dropped, and the area became undesirable. Which meant that property got cheaper. Which meant that by the end of the century, aspirational young people could afford to buy there. Which meant there was more money about and hip restaurants started to open, and junk shops became antique emporia. There was a shop on Wandsworth Common which, when I was a kid, had a dusty window and some kind of bakelite machine on display. I never knew what their business was and I never saw anyone in there. Before I was thirty, Marcus Wotsisname had turned it into a fashionable expensive restaurant. Wandsworth is very wealthy now. Same goes for Greenwich, Peckham, Clapham, Balham.

And usage changes too. When the docks became defunct, Southwark and Bermondsey - which had always been rough and lively - became rough and deadly. You really wouldn't want to be caught on Tooley Street after dark in the seventies. Especially if you had blue hair and red boots. For instance.

Now, Tooley Street is bustling, alive, touristy, reborn.

Many people will moan that it has lost its working-class character - and it has. But that character was lost when the docks closed. It wasn't redevelopment that killed it.

London's always done this. The West End - let's say from Regent's Park to Trafalgar Square - was a huge urban renewal project. And to make it happen, acres and acres of slums were cleared. The character of the place was not just changed. It was expunged, mercilessly. Thousands of people were summarily chucked out.

But you rarely hear people moaning that Regent Street has destroyed the soul of London. No one ever suggests that Portland Place was much more chummy before it was gentrified.

Is London in decline? Undoubtedly bits of it are. And bits of it are on the up. That's how London survives. Two thousand years, and counting.

EasternStandard · 17/01/2025 19:18

catcafeatno10 · 17/01/2025 18:33

@Sunholidays - I was also in Australia recently and was quite shocked at how Melbourne has gone downhill since last time I was there 20 years ago. Especially suburbs like Fitzroy and St Kilda.

Absolutely those suburbs same here

Quite an eye opener, plus drug use

There are still nice areas though

BigSkies2022 · 17/01/2025 19:29

jokeynever · 17/01/2025 15:59

Not sure why it's such a problem then. Cannabis doesn't generally make people violent - if anything, the opposite.

I can see the problem with smack etc. in terms of the public health hazard from used needles, and increased burglary to pay for it. But I can't get excited about people smoking a joint in public or being open about dealing in it.

Well, as the parent of a teenage lad in a south east London school, who had to work very hard to keep him in school, and on a path to exams, university and a better life with more opportunities, I can absolutely see the problem with cannabis dealing and use. Because from about the age of 15, he, and all his peers, were continually approached on the way to and from school by the poor sods, more or less their ages, on county lines, offering weed, coke, specialK, molly - all could be brought to the doors of their homes. If you don't see it as problem, you're pretty naive about the impact the filthy trade has.

Coldanddamp · 17/01/2025 19:39

@PointsSouth suppose it depends on what you think is better. I’m a SW londoner, born & raised so I’m aware of how things have changed. Certainly somethings are better but it’s lost somethings too.

TheGander · 17/01/2025 19:47

That’s awful @BigSkies2022 . Drugs really are a plague. Cousin is a prison chaplain ( in France admittedly) the stories are horrific, a gang ordered the execution of a prison guard at her home because she “ humiliated” a convict drug lord.

shakespearetower · 17/01/2025 20:11

Born and bred Londoner. Live in the Square Mile now, lived in and went to school in zone 4 and zone 2.

Have noticed London steadily decline over the years but never really though much of it, after all, cities change, they are constantly reinventing themselves, gentrifying etc. As I've got older, my tread has got smaller. There are parts of London I simply don't go to any longer. Those I do, some are nothing like they used to be. The West End in particular is a shell of what it used to be.

It was only when I was in New York a few years ago that I was dazzled not only by how clean Manhattan was, but how one could almost smell the money, something I hadn't really felt about London since the early 2000s. Indeed, when I returned to London, it really hit me just how much of a shit hole huge swathes of it now are. And it's parts one would expect more from - for example, I live in the Square Mile and my local high street (Cheapside), once bustling with all the shops in use. Now, almost half are empty and two floors of One New Change (the shopping centre) are completely empty. Hobbs is the last store standing in the basement. Councils just don't seem to want to help themselves. They charge high business rates and building owners charge too high a rent. Often the former are also the latter (in the case of City of London/Bridge House Estates). Landlords would rather buildings stand empty than rent them out at a reasonable rent. (Much like many housing landlords).

Was in SW1 for the first time in a while last November and saw even Sloane Street has many vacant stores. Given the current financial climate coupled with Brexit and also the fact tourist no longer get tex-free shopping, I can't imagine London returning to being a global destination just yet. There's a lot of work to do. Allow tourists to shop tax-free would be a huge step in the right direction.

Capitalism isn't working. We need a change of attitudes and be more community minded. What I have always found so maddening about living in the Square Mile is the council are only interested in businesses and the business community (even though many have upped and left for Europe, particularly Ireland). They don't give a stuff about actual residents and what we need. I do feel that across the country, many councils have lost site of what their own communities need but at the same time, local councils just don't have the funding. (City of London has no such excuse as it's the richest council in the UK). This is decades of neglect that are creating a perfect storm and downward spiral. Without serious financial investment, I can't see how this will improve.

VoodooRajin · 17/01/2025 20:16

Both paris and london are amazing cities to cycle around, they are evolving cities

unmemorableusername · 17/01/2025 21:52

London is a lot shinier than the rest of the uk.

NutsForMutts · 17/01/2025 22:07

20+ years in London living in Elephant/Oval/Waterloo/King's Cross/Peckham/East Dulwich/Catford. I totally disagree it is in decline. Cities go through phases. @shakespearetower I remember Cheapside being desolate 20 years ago when I was working there, nowhere to shop. It got bustling and now declining again maybe for retail (that's more a structural story of how people shop). But then look at the Ned - it's always packed. Can't walk in to get a table for lunch, or anywhere around there. Also lived in NYC from the days of tent cities in parks and crack hotels through to the Disneyworld shine years and now it's back in decline and stinking of cannabis and rubbish. It's the way of cities and I love both those cities.

VoodooRajin · 17/01/2025 22:12

unmemorableusername · 17/01/2025 21:52

London is a lot shinier than the rest of the uk.

Yes, also has the longest life expentancy

VoodooRajin · 17/01/2025 22:13

*expectancy

shakespearetower · 17/01/2025 22:14

God, why would you go to The Ned? Dreadful place. And seriously, you're equating London not being in decline because The Ned is booming. It's more to do with geography than a benchmark of anything else.

Misses point completely 😂

shakespearetower · 17/01/2025 22:16

NutsForMutts · 17/01/2025 22:07

20+ years in London living in Elephant/Oval/Waterloo/King's Cross/Peckham/East Dulwich/Catford. I totally disagree it is in decline. Cities go through phases. @shakespearetower I remember Cheapside being desolate 20 years ago when I was working there, nowhere to shop. It got bustling and now declining again maybe for retail (that's more a structural story of how people shop). But then look at the Ned - it's always packed. Can't walk in to get a table for lunch, or anywhere around there. Also lived in NYC from the days of tent cities in parks and crack hotels through to the Disneyworld shine years and now it's back in decline and stinking of cannabis and rubbish. It's the way of cities and I love both those cities.

It's fair to say that we're both living/hanging out in very different parts of NY and London 😂