Neurodivergent husband has brought me to my knees, am I unreasonable to leave him ?

[MyNextSteps]

This is my first Mumsnet post so I'm sorry but this will be a long rant. But I have really lost my way and would appreciate everyone's thoughts.

My husband and I are in our late 50s and have been married for 25 years and have 5 kids who are late teens/20s.

The marriage has always had something "not quite right", something missing which I couldn't explain. DH didn't have many girlfriends I thought he was just shy. Once married I always felt he was avoidant, pulling away, preoccupied, unavailable, never initiated sex. If I ever tried to raise it, even gently, he was irritable and defensive, saying my "constant criticism and oversensitivity" was the problem and then he'd try to run away or hang up the phone or get busy or fall asleep or get one of the kids to interrupt us to shut me down. He is also very interested in facts not feelings and tends to disconnect from conversations once he's satisfied himself of the facts.

Eventually I dragged DH to therapy wondering if he was a covert narcissist but this year he's been diagnosed with High Functioning Autism Level 1 (Aspergers) which explains everything. I feel I'm in a nightmare as our story started out as a fairytale with our beautiful kids but now I'm acceptingw nothing will change with DH.

We both had good careers but I stayed at home to raise the kids. He worked hard to provide for us all but had a long commute. We moved out to the coast and bought a rambling old house with land, did it up and we have a small holding with animals. DH seemed to avoid intimacy but I didn't question it as he was tired and working so hard and so was I. He never took me out in the evening or hired a babysitter or took me away for a few nights. We only ever went away with the kids but I was so in the tunnel of parenthood and we didn't have much money to spare so I didn't really stop to question it.

Gradually the kids grew up and then DH stopped work and I thought we would spend more time together but I gradually realized he wasn't interested. Once he stopped work and was around 24/7 and the kids were grown up, it dawned on me that he was just making excuses to avoid time with me and avoid intimacy.

We did years of marriage therapy but he could neither express his feelings at all (alexithymia) or understand mine. He just cannot hear me - all he can hear is that he's being criticized and then he becomes a professional victim. I have given him a million chances to sort himself out, so many times we have fought and he always comes back, says sorry but nothing changes. Our therapist said he wouldn't change and to leave him as he wasn't able or interested in meeting my needs.

Some of the worst family fights have been when I have been angry with DH and then he goes to the kids and portrays himself as a victim and me as the perpetrator. Then the kids (who are angry he's so weak) stand up for him. So I'm then fighting my own kids and he sits there with his head in his hands not speaking while it all kicks off between me and the kids.

So there have been times when the kids have seen me as the aggressive bad cop whilst he is good cop being their friend as he does everything for them, drives them around, gives them money and never sets rules or boundaries. Mum "wears the trousers" and keeps it all fair and accountable. Although the kids hate on me for being bad cop I notice when life gets tricky they all come running to me for guidance because I'm actually the only real parent.

Every time the whole family gets together which is now only about twice a year I work hard to cook food and make it nice but either my husband or one of the ND kids has a meltdown or shutdown which ruins the occasion and the family doesn't speak for months, I am beginning to dread get togethers.

Now his daily routine is to get up feeling anxious and then just drift around for the rest of the day, no plan, no goals, achieving not much, never gets together with friends, sometimes hangs with his family (many of them have the same issues as him) low functioning, wears same clothes for days. If I ask him to do something he'll do it eventually but then says I'm bossy and that he feels "controlled" and then makes sure the kids know it.

Some of our kids have various neurodiverse traits/issues and DH and I clashed seriously about how to raise them because as a ND himself his first instinct was to deny their problems and help them to mask whereas I as an NT wanted to get them diagnosed and get them help. DH also insisted that we don't mention anyone's diagnosis in the family (shame) so when several of the kids have huge meltdowns we are not allowed to address it with the other kids and I can see that they feel guilty and responsible when it's not their fault.

Things have come to a head in the last few months. DH was being assessed for suspected cancer. He wasn't able to process many feelings about that beyond being sure he didn't want the kids to know. I did all the worrying and supporting whilst he looked blank and numb all through Christmas. Finally this week he got the "all clear", he did express some relief but I was hugely emotional after the hospital.

The same night one of our kids rang up and shouted at me because she'd given a message to DH for me to do something but he hadn't passed it on to me so I hadn't done what she needed me to do. I was still emotional from the hospital so after she'd put the phone down I was angry with DH that he hadn't passed on the message. He denied this so we started to argue. DH then portrayed himself a a victim in front of one of our sons who got aggressive with me and goaded and shoved me (he's 6 ft) and started being verbally abusive and telling me I was crazy (he didn't know about the hospital or cancer scare at all so didn't know why I was so emotional). I said to DH "tell him to stop" but DH said "why should he stop abusing you when you abuse me ?" (professional victim).

In that moment after 25 years something snapped in me. I did something I've never done before. I calmly put together a small bag of clothes and walked out. I drove off and checked into a local B&B where I am sitting now with no idea about my next move.

DH has brought me to my knees. It's not what he does, it's what he DOESN'T do, he's just absent from our marriage. He doesn't want me to leave but he doesn't want to have a relationship with me either. He just wants a housekeeper/secretary/organizer/mother not a wife. I want to leave him but then I break up the family, we lose our lovely home and I get blamed for that by him and the kids, I lose my smallholding and animals and will have to give up my dream part time job that I have taken up in the last few years too, so essentially I lose my entire life as it is currently.

I rang DH from the B&B to discuss the issues. He said "all you do is criticize me, I'm a victim" and hung up. He didn't want to discuss the issues because he can't summarize or express his feelings. He says he can't change and I am persecuting him to do things he can't do. He then said by the way if I was moving out then he'd sell our home and small holding because he wasn't interested in it anyway he only bought it for me (first I heard about that, he was the one that insisted we buy it when I wanted to stay in the city !). I went back briefly to our home to collect clothes etc and he was just lying flat on the sofa staring into space, washing left in the machine overnight, last night's dinner still on the table untouched, curtains not drawn, animals not fed, plants not watered, post not opened etc.

AIBU to leave and break up the family and sell our family home and smallholding and rehome the animals ? Or am I overreacting and should I accept he can't change, stop asking him to and just suck it up for the sake of the family ? DH is not a bad person, we have a lot in common with our joint kids, life and animals. He worked hard to support us all, he's never been unfaithful or had addictions or been abusive (contrast I've been a drunk and screaming harridan more than once when pushed beyond human limits by rigid and goading ND family members). I am also nearly 60 and have let myself go with all the stress. Dating now fills me with horror, what are my chances anyway and my friends are having horror stories on Bumble.... I would also have to go back to full time work at 60 to support myself and the children would be hostile to a new partner as they feel responsible for their victim dad. But he is not my husband or lover and he's more friends with the kids than a father to them. He is a professional victim and he has no capacity for a marriage or partnership with me. I would be happy to live alone but I keep having the sad thought that I don't want to get to the end of my life without having experienced a true and loving partnership.

If I could find a way to stay with DH I would but I have tried to compromise a million times. I don't want to have an affair either but it seems that if I stay I would have to completely deny my own needs for love, support, intimacy, boundaries, joint parenting, joy etc and life is too short for that. Advice please.

Your children will see a new side to you if you break up. You will no longer be “mean, moany mum”

You will feel so free and guarantee you will be happier. While there may be some initial anger from them just be positive and move on.

It’s not ok that your son did that btw. Can you invite him out for a chat and explain about the other factors and how you felt? Tell him there is a lot he doesn’t know about his dad and you don’t want to get involved but please can he not blame you for everything and believe all his dad says?

No he has lots of his own feelings. What he cannot understand is that other people are having their own feelings, thoughts or experiences. That’s why he can’t react ‘normally’ in these situations. For him, there is a blank where his understanding of his wife’s experience should be.

I am amazed you managed to stay with him
for so long and have 5 children. Time to think of yourself and move on.

Professionals who are actually qualified and competent to diagnose know that a.) you can't diagnose someone over the Internet based on a second-hand account and b.) "covert narcissist" isn't a psychiatric diagnosis that's used in clinical practice but a label that has been popularised through media culture. There ie no research-based evidence that NPD can be meaningfully divided into subtypes. I wince whenever I see threads going "My counsellor thinks DH has covert narcissism" because if that's true, then the counsellor is grossly misrepresenting their qualifications by suggesting to a client that they can diagnose anything at all.

People seem keen on these labels because medicalising abuse makes it easier to justify leaving, when in reality awful behaviour does not need to fit diagnostic criteria for someone to get out. They can also become a way for people to deflect from their own problematic behaviour. OP has said it's easy for her husband to paint her as the bad cop because the kids have seen her "drunk and screaming" (when goaded by him), but she did not mention the age at which the children started to witness this or how regular it's been. I doubt posters here would find it acceptable if her husband were to claim he was being driven to alcohol misuse by her and then screaming in front of children - that would just be more evidence that he's playing the victim - but once he's been labelled as a 'covert narcissist' it's his fault that the OP has done this. It sounds extremely unhealthy for everyone involved.

You've spent 25 years trying to change Dh into to something he physically and mentally cant be. He has spent 25 years avoiding accepting he is ND and finding ways to manage.

This isn't going to change, all you have mentioned in your OP is dressing, you're incompatible, its become toxic and it wont change. Your children have been affected by all parties sticking their head in the sand

Since when is encouraging a man to be violent towards your wife, an autistic trait? He 100% CAN be blamed for that.

The diagnosis is a red herring here, he’s behaving badly no matter what diagnosis he has.

You are on a hiding to nothing trying to get your DC to ‘see’ their real Dad. The best thing you can do is take the high road.

Separate , divorce and tell your DC you have grown apart and are unhappy together.

It’s a scary road but as another poster said staying with DH and DC who shout at you and get physical with you is scarier.

Your DC will soon see their real dad when you stop smoothing over things

Of course she can and it sounds like she absolutely should. It's a sad situation all round is all, there doesn't have to be a villain.

My dm left my df in her 50s and her pov was probably very similar to yours.

He is unknowingly Autistic too.

She's had a happier life post split. Has social groups. She bought a small flat in a not as nice area but it's how she wants it.

He's dysfunctional without someone doing everything for him. Lack of self care etc.

As their adult dc I can now see how hard their marriage must have been for her. (I didn't see it at the time, he played the victim!)

It's a sham if you stay.

It isn't a real marriage anyway.

Yes there is a difference between lacking a theory of mind wrt other people, and being so self-centred that you dismiss other people’s feelings or needs and prioritise your own.

Now his daily routine is to get up feeling anxious and then just drift around for the rest of the day, no plan, no goals, achieving not much, never gets together with friends, sometimes hangs with his family (many of them have the same issues as him) low functioning, wears same clothes for days.

My gut reaction to this is he needs a job!

Late 50s is young to retire and even if you don't need the income there are other very valid reasons for working.

I'm just 70 and work for myself (part time.) I don't want to stop 'being me' because of my age.

I think you need to accept that whether he is neurodivergent or whatever label fits, you're not compatible.

Your marriage isn't working, is unlikely to, so you need to move on.

I can't see - truthfully- why you need to ask.
Not being unkind, but it's perfectly obvious this isn't right for either of you.

Op has said she is the one that screams hence the children siding with dad.

What has he done exactly aside from being distant?

Totally agree, it never ceases me to see the knots people tie themselves in to excuse men and their violent behaviour

On the one hand, more awareness of 'difference' is a good thing but on the other, it's a hindrance. All this labelling is not really relevant.

In the past, he'd be called 'an awkward bugger' and the wife would say she's leaving as they don't get on.

Where has he been violent?

Do you think he's gay?

His lack of interest in sex, other than to create your children is concerning.

Could all this anger be because he can't 'come out'?

I'd be questioning his sexuality because you felt something wasn't right from the start with your marriage.

Maybe he felt the need to marry to please other people and show he was straight.

There are many men who are married with kids who only reveal their sexual preferences much later in life.

Agree. He is abusive in his own way. The children know you're the only functional, responsible parent here, and one day they may see their father for what he is. I bet your husband isn't as helpless as he's making out, he will have to learn to cope without you. Your children are taking you for granted but you don't have to put them first all the time, not at the expense of your own sanity and happiness. and certainly not now that they're adults. You have been facilitating everything and everyone forever.

Let the chips fall where they may. This has gone on too long. Put yourself first for a change.... if not at nearly 60, then when?

Indeed - it sounds like your children couldn't think any less of you than they do now, except as a solver of their problems whom they take for granted.

If (when!) you leave and start prioritising yourself - because darling, you are long overdue this - they will either realise you were right, or will be disdainful as they are now. You will either win or break even, which are better odds than staying in this lose-lose situation.

Power to you! 🤗

It's never going to change, you will always be unhappy, it's your choice.

I don't have much advice but I must say, WELL DONE for packing the small bag & leaving.
That to me was your first step to freedom.

You get one chance in this world, one life. Don't waste anymore time on 'D'H.
I agree with other posters, he could absolutely step in and stop your son.

Also let DC deal with daddy for a while. He'll show his true colours soon enough.

I think the ball has started rolling for you.
Keep up the momentum.
Your new life is on the horizon.

This may sound horrible, so please forgive me. You hate your marriage and feel trapped, but why? Your husband doesn't like you, and nor do your children! What kind of big burly son pushes his mother around. What kind of father allows it? Why did all the other siblings no longer help? I would stop thinking about everyone else's feelings. Because they clearly don't even care for you. Life is too short to be trapped by your own making. Free yourself from this imagined prison. Remove the animals, start the divorce, sell the property, buy a small home. Enjoy your life, you're done raising your children. You owe them nothing now, and everything to yourself. Be free and happy, just as you deserve ❤️

I feel for you OP and it is a very difficult situation.

You have been told by a counsellor and many times by your husband that he is not going to change because his behaviour is caused by his autism. Yet you contine to try to change him and argue with him when he doesn't change.
I imagine he feels very distressed about the fact that you are just not listening to him and understanding him.

Likewise I can understand that you feel like you are coming up against a brick wall.

You do probably need to separate. This will be very difficult for your autistic husband because change is usually increadibly hard for someone with autism. He will most likely need some kind of support to get him through it, not from you, but if you could ensure that he has someone to check in with every day.
I know it will also be difficult for you. But it will be increadibly difficult for him so please be understanding in this.

From the perspective of somebody autistic/ADHD: your situation is dysfunctional and yes you probably should leave if your husband is unwilling to try to change. However to take a broader perspective here: often ND people develop mental health issues due to their unrecognised struggles and the lack of acceptance and accommodation in society. These festering psychological issues can then lead to behaviour like your husband and son are showing. It seems to me like your son becoming aggressive towards you (which is completely unacceptable) could be a consequence of impulsivity which is often a trait of neurodiversity, and without appropriate treatment/medication can be difficult to control. I think you have a family with multiple ND people who have had inadequate support on how to control/manage their emotions and difficulties which has led to this dysfunctional behaviour. I come from a very similar family and have been able to piece together these things after receiving late diagnoses myself. Having said all of this, it's not your responsibility to change people either, especially when the situation is costing you your own health. Perhaps best you can do is encourage them to seek the help and support they need & deserve whilst removing yourself from the situation and trying to build a new life that is more fitting to your own needs.

He has not been violent.

This will be very difficult for your autistic husband because change is usually increadibly hard for someone with autism. He will most likely need some kind of support to get him through it, not from you, but if you could ensure that he has someone to check in with every day.

It is absolutely not OP’s responsibility to line up ‘aftercare’ for her abusive husband when leaving him. Even if he’s autistic.

Suggesting that is just putting additional hurdles in the way of her getting disentangled from a situation that’s already hugely challenging.