Neurodivergent husband has brought me to my knees, am I unreasonable to leave him ?

[MyNextSteps]

This is my first Mumsnet post so I'm sorry but this will be a long rant. But I have really lost my way and would appreciate everyone's thoughts.

My husband and I are in our late 50s and have been married for 25 years and have 5 kids who are late teens/20s.

The marriage has always had something "not quite right", something missing which I couldn't explain. DH didn't have many girlfriends I thought he was just shy. Once married I always felt he was avoidant, pulling away, preoccupied, unavailable, never initiated sex. If I ever tried to raise it, even gently, he was irritable and defensive, saying my "constant criticism and oversensitivity" was the problem and then he'd try to run away or hang up the phone or get busy or fall asleep or get one of the kids to interrupt us to shut me down. He is also very interested in facts not feelings and tends to disconnect from conversations once he's satisfied himself of the facts.

Eventually I dragged DH to therapy wondering if he was a covert narcissist but this year he's been diagnosed with High Functioning Autism Level 1 (Aspergers) which explains everything. I feel I'm in a nightmare as our story started out as a fairytale with our beautiful kids but now I'm acceptingw nothing will change with DH.

We both had good careers but I stayed at home to raise the kids. He worked hard to provide for us all but had a long commute. We moved out to the coast and bought a rambling old house with land, did it up and we have a small holding with animals. DH seemed to avoid intimacy but I didn't question it as he was tired and working so hard and so was I. He never took me out in the evening or hired a babysitter or took me away for a few nights. We only ever went away with the kids but I was so in the tunnel of parenthood and we didn't have much money to spare so I didn't really stop to question it.

Gradually the kids grew up and then DH stopped work and I thought we would spend more time together but I gradually realized he wasn't interested. Once he stopped work and was around 24/7 and the kids were grown up, it dawned on me that he was just making excuses to avoid time with me and avoid intimacy.

We did years of marriage therapy but he could neither express his feelings at all (alexithymia) or understand mine. He just cannot hear me - all he can hear is that he's being criticized and then he becomes a professional victim. I have given him a million chances to sort himself out, so many times we have fought and he always comes back, says sorry but nothing changes. Our therapist said he wouldn't change and to leave him as he wasn't able or interested in meeting my needs.

Some of the worst family fights have been when I have been angry with DH and then he goes to the kids and portrays himself as a victim and me as the perpetrator. Then the kids (who are angry he's so weak) stand up for him. So I'm then fighting my own kids and he sits there with his head in his hands not speaking while it all kicks off between me and the kids.

So there have been times when the kids have seen me as the aggressive bad cop whilst he is good cop being their friend as he does everything for them, drives them around, gives them money and never sets rules or boundaries. Mum "wears the trousers" and keeps it all fair and accountable. Although the kids hate on me for being bad cop I notice when life gets tricky they all come running to me for guidance because I'm actually the only real parent.

Every time the whole family gets together which is now only about twice a year I work hard to cook food and make it nice but either my husband or one of the ND kids has a meltdown or shutdown which ruins the occasion and the family doesn't speak for months, I am beginning to dread get togethers.

Now his daily routine is to get up feeling anxious and then just drift around for the rest of the day, no plan, no goals, achieving not much, never gets together with friends, sometimes hangs with his family (many of them have the same issues as him) low functioning, wears same clothes for days. If I ask him to do something he'll do it eventually but then says I'm bossy and that he feels "controlled" and then makes sure the kids know it.

Some of our kids have various neurodiverse traits/issues and DH and I clashed seriously about how to raise them because as a ND himself his first instinct was to deny their problems and help them to mask whereas I as an NT wanted to get them diagnosed and get them help. DH also insisted that we don't mention anyone's diagnosis in the family (shame) so when several of the kids have huge meltdowns we are not allowed to address it with the other kids and I can see that they feel guilty and responsible when it's not their fault.

Things have come to a head in the last few months. DH was being assessed for suspected cancer. He wasn't able to process many feelings about that beyond being sure he didn't want the kids to know. I did all the worrying and supporting whilst he looked blank and numb all through Christmas. Finally this week he got the "all clear", he did express some relief but I was hugely emotional after the hospital.

The same night one of our kids rang up and shouted at me because she'd given a message to DH for me to do something but he hadn't passed it on to me so I hadn't done what she needed me to do. I was still emotional from the hospital so after she'd put the phone down I was angry with DH that he hadn't passed on the message. He denied this so we started to argue. DH then portrayed himself a a victim in front of one of our sons who got aggressive with me and goaded and shoved me (he's 6 ft) and started being verbally abusive and telling me I was crazy (he didn't know about the hospital or cancer scare at all so didn't know why I was so emotional). I said to DH "tell him to stop" but DH said "why should he stop abusing you when you abuse me ?" (professional victim).

In that moment after 25 years something snapped in me. I did something I've never done before. I calmly put together a small bag of clothes and walked out. I drove off and checked into a local B&B where I am sitting now with no idea about my next move.

DH has brought me to my knees. It's not what he does, it's what he DOESN'T do, he's just absent from our marriage. He doesn't want me to leave but he doesn't want to have a relationship with me either. He just wants a housekeeper/secretary/organizer/mother not a wife. I want to leave him but then I break up the family, we lose our lovely home and I get blamed for that by him and the kids, I lose my smallholding and animals and will have to give up my dream part time job that I have taken up in the last few years too, so essentially I lose my entire life as it is currently.

I rang DH from the B&B to discuss the issues. He said "all you do is criticize me, I'm a victim" and hung up. He didn't want to discuss the issues because he can't summarize or express his feelings. He says he can't change and I am persecuting him to do things he can't do. He then said by the way if I was moving out then he'd sell our home and small holding because he wasn't interested in it anyway he only bought it for me (first I heard about that, he was the one that insisted we buy it when I wanted to stay in the city !). I went back briefly to our home to collect clothes etc and he was just lying flat on the sofa staring into space, washing left in the machine overnight, last night's dinner still on the table untouched, curtains not drawn, animals not fed, plants not watered, post not opened etc.

AIBU to leave and break up the family and sell our family home and smallholding and rehome the animals ? Or am I overreacting and should I accept he can't change, stop asking him to and just suck it up for the sake of the family ? DH is not a bad person, we have a lot in common with our joint kids, life and animals. He worked hard to support us all, he's never been unfaithful or had addictions or been abusive (contrast I've been a drunk and screaming harridan more than once when pushed beyond human limits by rigid and goading ND family members). I am also nearly 60 and have let myself go with all the stress. Dating now fills me with horror, what are my chances anyway and my friends are having horror stories on Bumble.... I would also have to go back to full time work at 60 to support myself and the children would be hostile to a new partner as they feel responsible for their victim dad. But he is not my husband or lover and he's more friends with the kids than a father to them. He is a professional victim and he has no capacity for a marriage or partnership with me. I would be happy to live alone but I keep having the sad thought that I don't want to get to the end of my life without having experienced a true and loving partnership.

If I could find a way to stay with DH I would but I have tried to compromise a million times. I don't want to have an affair either but it seems that if I stay I would have to completely deny my own needs for love, support, intimacy, boundaries, joint parenting, joy etc and life is too short for that. Advice please.

I'm curious about the marriage therapy. What did the therapist say and how your husband reacted to it?

Your H sounds similar to mine. Diagnosed a few years ago as High functioning autism. This has been a very unfortunate label as H has heard ‘high functioning’ and now refuses to acknowledge that his behaviour is in anyway problematic in our marriage and family, as he is High Functioning.

Here’s a line I heard on a Cassandra support site, ‘pick your hard. Leaving is hard, staying is hard. Pick your hard.’

Like your H, mine thinks he is the victim, that I am controlling. He has alexithymia too. I feel your pain. Unless you have lived with the disconnected from reality insanity of someone with like this, you cannot understand how dementing it is. Not existing to your partner is very hard.

I can empathise with a lot of this and have tired to break up with my autistic partner before but he wouldn't leave, also like your husband he sees himself as a victim and would have ruined my relationshipwith thr childrengoing on about how terrible I had been throwing him out. What worked for us was him admitting that he is autistic, coming to terms with it and going on anti depressants. This has taken the noise of autism away from him.and he has actually shown a bit of insight and is much calmer. For my part I can see that it is not helpful to lament his short comings as he cannot help a lot of it, in this way, we rub along together. I also have my own hobbies and go on holiday without him, thus meets my need for social contact and we get on a lot better. I think your situation sounds toxic at hr moment and you would benefit from a break. Perhaps you could say this to him in a non blaming kind of way, would he accept this?

OP, this sounds hellish. I am so sorry. Sadly your husband is as he is; he won’t change. He is very manipulative as well as ND - what a horrible combination. This situation will ruin the rest of your life and ultimately destroy you. Please start making plans to leave but speak with a divorce lawyer first and get your plans in place. You can have a happy future but it needs to be without your husband. Good luck.

@MyNextSteps this Op!
You are being treated horrendously by both your husband and kids. You deserve better. Stop putting up with it.

Yes, the relationship needs to end, but be wary about moving out before taking legal advice.

I think you need to move back in, see a lawyer and get your ducks in a row then file for divorce.

Well done for going to the B&B. In my mind that is a HUGE step that you have taken, towards admitting that you and your happiness, fulfilment, sanity and autonomy are important. Important for you but for many people around you.
I know nothing details about family systems, but enough to realise DH’s influence here is not benign.
You will need to build back your relationships with your children individually, one by one. And to set clear boundaries with them all, by your actions and if necessary words. You might even want to do family therapy with them, if you can afford it, once the dust settles.
The smallholding sounds wonderful. The animals are and have been a huge part of your life, I am sure. But the important things here - if he can’t afford to leave you in the family home / vice versa - are you and your children.
Best of luck.

yeah OP, continue to be a ‘coper’ to enable your hapless husband forever more otherwise you’ll lose your kids. Screw your needs!

🙄

hmm, no, that is terrible advice from @NewNeolithic
the “copers” in life deserve to be happy and treated with care and respect too.

As someone with autism and adhd I would add that whatever he has going on does not give him a reason or an excuse to act like a twat to you or the kids
or anyone else
go see a lawyer and get some advice and if you move get a one bed place so the kids cannot follow you either

You can be autistic and a narcissist at the same time BTW.

Triangulation is a key strategy of narcissists and they always play the victim instead of accepting responsibility.

I'm autistic and I would never triangulate, and I would always listen.

There are some things I'm just not able to do, and I would express those to a partner and find a way to meet their needs in a way that I am able, but for me I'm not able to always show emotional reciprocity. It's not a skill I can learn. It's a legitimate deficit and that is why I am autistic and I would be upset if a partner knew this about me but expected me to suddenly be able to, but I would always show affection in ways that I am able to.

You should leave him. He isn't interested in meeting you halfway. He's not even interested in having a conversation with you about what he is able to bring to the table for you. He just isn't interested at all.

Your husband is right - you do blame him for everything and want him to be someone he isn't. He isn't going to change, he's made that clear and the therapist told you he wouldn't change. You either accept him as he is or you leave. Why are you banging your head against a brick wall? You need to seriously consider why you are staying. You are the only one that you can change and you need to change by either accepting or leaving. Your life, your choice.

I agree with this . He sounds a danger to women

I couldn't get past my spouse standing idly by while a man shoved me. Relationships are going to look different for different people but someone that does that is showing that they are not in a relationship or partnership with you.

So much of what you said resonated with me, OP. I couldn't put my finger on what was wrong in my relationship either, but could almost recite your list word-for-word. (Except my ex couldn't hold down an employed job and used the silent treatment to punish me/disengage.) It's really hard to leave but, ultimately, I think it's better than the alternative. Life is hard enough without this type of extra burden. At least you'll be free of the manipulation once you're living on your own.

Whether to say anything to your children about your DH's diagnosis and health scare or not is tricky. On the one hand, I think people have a right to keep their medical information private but, on the other, knowing your DH is autistic may help them seek their own diagnosis/support.

And agree that you should not move out before a) seeking legal advice or b) implementing it. The kind of person your partner is - capable of constructing fictitious narratives to suit him and turning your kids against you at whim - could easily manipulate the situation more to his advantage if you leave him in the house and move out.

You woukd not be breaking up the family, it is already broken up

it sounds totally unliveable

you must have very strong finances to be able to afford your DH not working and just flashing about at home all day

so that should give you freedom

work on keeping a good relationship with your kids, whilst breaking free from DH

Only read the first page, but there are many posters here who do not understand autism. Some autistic traits ( that not all autistic people have) do present like narcissism but the person is not narcisstic. Your H has alexithymia. He simply cannot see or understand your perspective or experience ( hence it appears as if he has narcissism). You,as a person in your own right, with your own motivations and agency and experiences, simply does not exist to him. All he can experience is how what you are saying makes him feel. As that is all he is experiencing, it must be that you are intending to make him feel like that. Therefore, if it makes him feel bad, the only explanation is that you are attacking and victimizing him. The way his brain is wired means he experiences the world very, very differently from you, and, bluntly, he experiences it wrongly.

it is deeply destructive to the NT partner to live with someone with such an extreme lack of empathy and mindsight as OPs H has.

Not just that he was encouraging it!

He must be devoid of feelings!

@CallItLonelinessEvery single time I read of a relationship like this (there are even support groups online with tens of thousands of women who are in ND marriages) it always shocks me how the very words and feelings expressed could have been written by myself. Each experience might be slightly different but all are similar for the same reasons. I know it’s offensive to say as autism is now sugar coated as a “super power” by well meaning parents but it certainly isn’t to those who married without knowing the true person or the life they was subjecting themselves to before the mask drops. It’s a life long brain disorder / developmental delay involving a lack of emotionally maturity and emotional capabilities that truly make ND/NT relationships incompatible. Unless the NT themselves are avoidant and do they need intimacy (emotional/physical) because of their own past traumas then unfortunately these marriages simply do not work and are deeply unfulfilling. There is no sugar coating the devastation these relationships bring and it’s gaslighting to assume otherwise unless you are on the receiving end.

But she isn't his carer or his mum so can choose that's all too much.

You can be ND and and a arsehole. They aren't mutually exclusive.

You have done your time OP and you can be 100% certain he will never change and he can't change. Also he doesn't want to change

Yanbu. I'd leave in your position.

You may find another relationship or may not, there aren't always great options as we get older (if you try daring you'll find out!). Perhaps consider whether you'd be happier being alone, then if you do find another decent relationship it's a bonus iyswim.

Sorry but you can not blame your husband for what he has. Exactly what your describing is exactly the autisms. He can't change it so yes he will absolutely feel your being critical when you should have looked up about his diagnosis and seen what it really is and does. It's your choice wether to work it out or not but how a person feels in this instance will not change. You can change tho, my hubby and my brother both have autisms in different ways. And we all know how to work around it or do things differently so they get it. Took time learning but now we have fun and mad days but no more bickering about why a person won't change when all we had to do was change how we did things

At it's most basic, neither of you is happy so what is there for either of you to stay for?

How many kids need housing?

Would any want to be with you?

Sorry there is no excuse for you screaming and you blaming him for “triggering” you sounds pretty manipulative. I’m not sure why you think you’ve got the higher moral ground in all this.

Of course you can leave. Let the OPs life be an enormous warning to you to take action now.