Neurodivergent husband has brought me to my knees, am I unreasonable to leave him ?

[MyNextSteps]

This is my first Mumsnet post so I'm sorry but this will be a long rant. But I have really lost my way and would appreciate everyone's thoughts.

My husband and I are in our late 50s and have been married for 25 years and have 5 kids who are late teens/20s.

The marriage has always had something "not quite right", something missing which I couldn't explain. DH didn't have many girlfriends I thought he was just shy. Once married I always felt he was avoidant, pulling away, preoccupied, unavailable, never initiated sex. If I ever tried to raise it, even gently, he was irritable and defensive, saying my "constant criticism and oversensitivity" was the problem and then he'd try to run away or hang up the phone or get busy or fall asleep or get one of the kids to interrupt us to shut me down. He is also very interested in facts not feelings and tends to disconnect from conversations once he's satisfied himself of the facts.

Eventually I dragged DH to therapy wondering if he was a covert narcissist but this year he's been diagnosed with High Functioning Autism Level 1 (Aspergers) which explains everything. I feel I'm in a nightmare as our story started out as a fairytale with our beautiful kids but now I'm acceptingw nothing will change with DH.

We both had good careers but I stayed at home to raise the kids. He worked hard to provide for us all but had a long commute. We moved out to the coast and bought a rambling old house with land, did it up and we have a small holding with animals. DH seemed to avoid intimacy but I didn't question it as he was tired and working so hard and so was I. He never took me out in the evening or hired a babysitter or took me away for a few nights. We only ever went away with the kids but I was so in the tunnel of parenthood and we didn't have much money to spare so I didn't really stop to question it.

Gradually the kids grew up and then DH stopped work and I thought we would spend more time together but I gradually realized he wasn't interested. Once he stopped work and was around 24/7 and the kids were grown up, it dawned on me that he was just making excuses to avoid time with me and avoid intimacy.

We did years of marriage therapy but he could neither express his feelings at all (alexithymia) or understand mine. He just cannot hear me - all he can hear is that he's being criticized and then he becomes a professional victim. I have given him a million chances to sort himself out, so many times we have fought and he always comes back, says sorry but nothing changes. Our therapist said he wouldn't change and to leave him as he wasn't able or interested in meeting my needs.

Some of the worst family fights have been when I have been angry with DH and then he goes to the kids and portrays himself as a victim and me as the perpetrator. Then the kids (who are angry he's so weak) stand up for him. So I'm then fighting my own kids and he sits there with his head in his hands not speaking while it all kicks off between me and the kids.

So there have been times when the kids have seen me as the aggressive bad cop whilst he is good cop being their friend as he does everything for them, drives them around, gives them money and never sets rules or boundaries. Mum "wears the trousers" and keeps it all fair and accountable. Although the kids hate on me for being bad cop I notice when life gets tricky they all come running to me for guidance because I'm actually the only real parent.

Every time the whole family gets together which is now only about twice a year I work hard to cook food and make it nice but either my husband or one of the ND kids has a meltdown or shutdown which ruins the occasion and the family doesn't speak for months, I am beginning to dread get togethers.

Now his daily routine is to get up feeling anxious and then just drift around for the rest of the day, no plan, no goals, achieving not much, never gets together with friends, sometimes hangs with his family (many of them have the same issues as him) low functioning, wears same clothes for days. If I ask him to do something he'll do it eventually but then says I'm bossy and that he feels "controlled" and then makes sure the kids know it.

Some of our kids have various neurodiverse traits/issues and DH and I clashed seriously about how to raise them because as a ND himself his first instinct was to deny their problems and help them to mask whereas I as an NT wanted to get them diagnosed and get them help. DH also insisted that we don't mention anyone's diagnosis in the family (shame) so when several of the kids have huge meltdowns we are not allowed to address it with the other kids and I can see that they feel guilty and responsible when it's not their fault.

Things have come to a head in the last few months. DH was being assessed for suspected cancer. He wasn't able to process many feelings about that beyond being sure he didn't want the kids to know. I did all the worrying and supporting whilst he looked blank and numb all through Christmas. Finally this week he got the "all clear", he did express some relief but I was hugely emotional after the hospital.

The same night one of our kids rang up and shouted at me because she'd given a message to DH for me to do something but he hadn't passed it on to me so I hadn't done what she needed me to do. I was still emotional from the hospital so after she'd put the phone down I was angry with DH that he hadn't passed on the message. He denied this so we started to argue. DH then portrayed himself a a victim in front of one of our sons who got aggressive with me and goaded and shoved me (he's 6 ft) and started being verbally abusive and telling me I was crazy (he didn't know about the hospital or cancer scare at all so didn't know why I was so emotional). I said to DH "tell him to stop" but DH said "why should he stop abusing you when you abuse me ?" (professional victim).

In that moment after 25 years something snapped in me. I did something I've never done before. I calmly put together a small bag of clothes and walked out. I drove off and checked into a local B&B where I am sitting now with no idea about my next move.

DH has brought me to my knees. It's not what he does, it's what he DOESN'T do, he's just absent from our marriage. He doesn't want me to leave but he doesn't want to have a relationship with me either. He just wants a housekeeper/secretary/organizer/mother not a wife. I want to leave him but then I break up the family, we lose our lovely home and I get blamed for that by him and the kids, I lose my smallholding and animals and will have to give up my dream part time job that I have taken up in the last few years too, so essentially I lose my entire life as it is currently.

I rang DH from the B&B to discuss the issues. He said "all you do is criticize me, I'm a victim" and hung up. He didn't want to discuss the issues because he can't summarize or express his feelings. He says he can't change and I am persecuting him to do things he can't do. He then said by the way if I was moving out then he'd sell our home and small holding because he wasn't interested in it anyway he only bought it for me (first I heard about that, he was the one that insisted we buy it when I wanted to stay in the city !). I went back briefly to our home to collect clothes etc and he was just lying flat on the sofa staring into space, washing left in the machine overnight, last night's dinner still on the table untouched, curtains not drawn, animals not fed, plants not watered, post not opened etc.

AIBU to leave and break up the family and sell our family home and smallholding and rehome the animals ? Or am I overreacting and should I accept he can't change, stop asking him to and just suck it up for the sake of the family ? DH is not a bad person, we have a lot in common with our joint kids, life and animals. He worked hard to support us all, he's never been unfaithful or had addictions or been abusive (contrast I've been a drunk and screaming harridan more than once when pushed beyond human limits by rigid and goading ND family members). I am also nearly 60 and have let myself go with all the stress. Dating now fills me with horror, what are my chances anyway and my friends are having horror stories on Bumble.... I would also have to go back to full time work at 60 to support myself and the children would be hostile to a new partner as they feel responsible for their victim dad. But he is not my husband or lover and he's more friends with the kids than a father to them. He is a professional victim and he has no capacity for a marriage or partnership with me. I would be happy to live alone but I keep having the sad thought that I don't want to get to the end of my life without having experienced a true and loving partnership.

If I could find a way to stay with DH I would but I have tried to compromise a million times. I don't want to have an affair either but it seems that if I stay I would have to completely deny my own needs for love, support, intimacy, boundaries, joint parenting, joy etc and life is too short for that. Advice please.

I agree. Having been in an NT/ND relationship, I wish I’d known what I was letting myself in for.

Take away the NT/ND and we were actually quite compatible. That’s why we got together in the first place.

what I wasn’t prepared for was the lack of care or empathy from my partner when the first flush of romance happened.

and constantly being someone’s life support machine.

it’s possible that if my ex had realised this and addressed it, we may have lasted.

You say your DD is NT - has she been tested, by an expert in female presentation of ASD?
If not, it is very possible that she does have ASD, but is good at masking.

"Boring and unbearable" would be an ASD response to exposure to other people's rages and arguments.

Get out for your own peace of mind. Don't second guess what he will say or do, you can't control that or the children's behaviour. Move out and be happy.

How old is your daughter? I think it’s very common for young people (and I mean adults) to not really appreciate the more nuanced types of abuse. I certainly didn’t in my 20’s.

have you told her about the autism? She needs to know. Then perhaps show her this thread. She doesn’t need to avoid the facts to stay neutral. You can still love both parents and accept their role in a marriage break up.

@EuclidianGeometryFan I would, and have, described such things as boring and unbearable and I am very much neurotypical.

I think most of us prefer to think well of our parents. It sounds like there was fault on both sides relationship wise but yours was more visible to your DC than the things your Ex was doing. Obviously that's not fair on you.

Are there other people outside the family who might be more willing to listen to your side and appreciate the nuance here?

So in her head I'm the main villain. That also matches with me being the "bad cop" parent too so she believes it. DH's victimhood has clearly worked with the kids.

I am the villain who plagued her dad, and broke up her family and took away her family home and her animals.

That isn’t what she said, though, is it? That’s how you’ve chosen to interpret it.

She doesn't see that neglect and withholding of love is abuse or that silence from DH in terms of discussing a way forward is cruel and manipulative. I’m guessing she didn’t say that, either.

She says she has witnessed our toxic conflict for years and it's boring and unbearable and divorce would be a relief for all the kids. appears to be what she actually said. Listen. Believe her.

Tbh, OP, if I were your daughter, I’d be a bit fed up with both of you. The situation sounds exhausting and toxic, and I’d be pissed off you (both) hadn’t ended things sooner, so I could have a less fucked up childhood. As a woman, I’d be particularly pissed off with you for just enduring so much shit for so long. And I wouldn’t want to hear the ins and outs of it, either. This is the relationship that you chose. It’s got nothing to do with her.

OP good news, your DD has indicated that all the DC are on board with the concept of divorce. This is very positive.
They are not going to take sides and nor should they. They will have witnessed your visible outbursts but will have less insight into the "why" it played out like that.
I'd pull back from discussing it with DC now. Tell them that you're sorry it's come to this point, that you tried your best but something has to change and that you love them and you know DH loves them too. That you and DH have had to deal with a lot recently, and one day DH may want to share some of that with them. But nevertheless you'll try your best to continue to have a positive relationship in the future.
Leave it at that. Moan at your friends. Moan at us. But don't drag your kids into it. If they ask, be neutral but factual. I can't remember if they know about the diagnosis but I think that at least should be communicated

reminds me of good friend who dislikes her mum….
Her dad, long term mistress 1/2 his age, undeclared child with her. Employed her & left business to mistress upon his death. Neglectful, selfish dhitty dad. 100% yet, daughter idolized him.

Treated the mum like a doormat, used to invite mistress and child to their pool on weekend. Mistress always lurking about pretending to be the loyal employee. The mum bringing her a cool drink, soft towels.

Daughters perspective is mum drove dad to it. She blamed her mum for the affair.

I don’t think there’s any need to discuss marriage problems with the children.

But - I don’t think they all need to know about DH’s ASD diagnosis and he doesn’t have the right to veto that. That’s fundamental to understanding and relating to their father.

Once your DD understands that she may understand that the relationship was harder for you than it appeared.

She doesn't see that neglect and withholding of love is abuse or that silence from DH in terms of discussing a way forward is cruel and manipulative.

I am very careful not to drag my young adult dc into things. In spite of what stbex has done - attempted to manipulate her into believing he is the victim. I think she has finally realised that there is no smoke without fire so to speak and that there are things that I'm not saying.

I think the thing is op, you can't get dragged into things. You won't know all the answers - when you get to the root of things you are very unhappy (as am I) and I need to act to change things. He blames everyone else. I have now seen this as his problem and nothing to do with me anymore. I can't wait to be away from him and that is now my goal.

You need to make quick steps to leave everyone too it once your gone he will need to be a victim of someone else he will need the support of his children he will need want and whine and they can deal with it or not but you will be free

If/when they come to you about it do not say I told you so set a boundary you don't want to hear about him

honestly my parents marriage was toxic after the divorce I failed to set boundaries and had to listen to their shit for years take my advice don't use your family as a sounding board don't let them use you as a sounding board (From my perspective they were both as bad as each other)

Sorry OP, but I'd divorce. You've reached the point where you can't take anymore. It's time to take back control of your life & do what makes you happy.

Can you move out, even to a house share or stay with a friend? Ask work if you cab do more hours and explain.

Your dd - she says has had enough - and she is your dd and not a friend. Its too hard. Move out and just be mum.

You can tell your dh you will talk, but somewhere neutral. No one else from the family .

Can you make the house into two?

I don’t think they all need to know about DH’s ASD diagnosis

Sorry - typo that should they do all need to know.

She is setting a clear boundary that she doesn't want to get involved between us, we are both her parents. She says she has witnessed our toxic conflict for years and it's boring and unbearable and divorce would be a relief for all the kids.

It's not fair to talk about your relationship with your children @MyNextSteps , they're always going to be torn between you both and your job as a parent is protect them as much as possible from the fallout, not confide in them.

Talk to friends or other family members, such as siblings (if you have them) whom you're close to.

Tbh, your children are soon going to realize what your DH is really like when you're no longer around to act as a buffer. I only discovered the extent of my Dad's problems after my Mum died, she'd always protected me.

Similarly, once you're out of the situation and no longer getting upset with him, they'll realize that you're not a screaming harridan.

neglect and withholding of love is abuse [...] silence from DH in terms of discussing a way forward is cruel and manipulative

You are judging your DH by neurotypical standards, which is not fair on him.
If he were NT, you might have a case in claiming he is abusive, cruel and manipulative.
But he is not NT.

What you interpret as 'neglect and withholding of love' is not that simple: it is his ND response to the way you have treated him, the way the relationship has grown over time.

The silence in terms of discussing a way forward is neither cruel nor manipulative, he is firstly protecting himself from more confrontation and emotional scenes, and secondly he does not feel a need to discuss a way forward. What is there to discuss? It is up to you to decide, by yourself, what actions you will take. He will then respond to your actions.

By wanting to discuss it, you are still wanting to "be in it with him", be engaged with him in a process of relating and meeting of minds and emotions. It is very difficult for you to realise you are on your own with this, you have to do it alone.

How much reading and research have you done on the complexities of ASD? As you have ASD children, you need to understand it better.

Is the non reply and waiting for instruction typical autistic

Yes, we value clear and direct instructions.

We don't always understand why people are mad if they don't tell us why they are mad. It's like a mind reading game except you're expecting us to pick up on social cues that we simply do not have the ability to pick up on.

I also struggle with object permanence and monotropism so therefore if someone leaves I will occupy myself in other ways and I will take the stance that when they're ready to talk they will reach out to me because that's just logical. If someone wants to talk to me they will do it but if they don't want to talk to me they won't. Nobody has ever walked out on me though and left it days before talking. I've never given anyone a reason to do that so I can't say for certain that I'd leave it for days before making contact with anyone. I do have a friend who we can go weeks between sending messages but that is mutual and isn't neglect of our relationship with eachother. It's just our lives.

Another big part of being autistic for me is not being able to see things from other peoples perspectives unless it is spelled out for me. I cant intuit it unless I have been through similar myself. This again is a social deficit and is part of the disability.

However you can still be autistic and abusive.

I would never assume I am always the victim even if I can't understand why someone else feels or behaves certain ways. I would communicate my needs like "I don't understand your reactions, this is not because your reactions aren't valid, but I need clear direct communication, can we talk about it?"

Sadly being autistic does sometimes look like the behaviours are manipulation and so for you, and other outsiders it is hard to know whether the behaviour you're seeing is dysregulation to a need not being met or whether it is a genuine attempt to change a power balance within a dynamic in order to achieve personal gain.

The truth is though it doesn't matter why a behaviour is the way it is, you aren't obligated to stay married to him.

He will never be able to give you the emotional reciprocity you need. You can and should leave because he is responsible for his own happiness and you are responsible for your own happiness. You are only responsible for meeting him halfway and he isn't willing to communicate his needs so that he can meet you halfway because life has worked out fine for him so far, but at the expense of your mental and physical health. Partners should add enrichment to eachothers lives and while you enrich his, he isn't enriching yours.

It doesn't matter. You know what you know. They might one day get it, they might not, but you can't let that inform what you do next.

Check out Cassandra Syndrome, you're not going crazy. We are wired to try and see patterns, and make sense of a situation which is what you're desperately trying to do, but there is no new information out there for you. What has happened has happened, it is real, and you will never get to the root of why.

Find a therapist that understands, it will need to be someone who actually understands the very specific kind of torture that this kind of relationship can be, so if they don't appear to get it, find a new one. Leave the kids out of it, this is their story, you are their parents and you can't change what has gone before, only what comes.

I am the villain who plagued her dad, and broke up her family and took away her family home and her animals.

Your thoughts inform your feelings. I know that you feel you're in the eye of a monumental shit show at the moment, but if you can be aware of your thoughts and that every time you tell yourself this it's laying down a neural pathway which will become like a needle in a record over time, and will play itself.

You are doing your best in a difficult situation, head towards peace, be kind to yourself.

Give it time with your DC. Even thought they are adults, they would still feel the sadness of their parents splitting up at any age. My DS told me when I said I was splitting from his Dad 'Mum, I always thought it was inevitable', which probably is the case with you. But it didn't make it less traumatic for him and your DC will feel in the middle whether they take sides or not. 2.5 years later, my relationship with my DS is wonderful and he has seen the me blossom and become the real me again, which he actually likes! Your DC will also see sides to your DH without you being there which they will see the 'real' him and things will reveal themselves for them to understand, given time, why you are doing what you are doing. The freedom you will feel eventually will be immense, I am actually excited for you! I still get those pangs of excitement when I get home to my house and reflect back on how my life has entered a new liberating chapter :-))

I second leaving the kids out of it.

My parents split up. My DH was 80% the wrong party but my DMs constant criticism of him and her need to get us ‘on side’ has resulted in us all having a strained relationship with her.

You need to proceed as kindly as you can and say you know this is right for everyone and then leave it be but show your DC some Grace even if they are not showing you any. Lead by example and you will have done your best

I really feel for you and think you are right to divorce him, but am afraid I can’t enlighten you as to what’s going through his mind. 💐Autism is such a variable thing, but it isn’t a free pass to be manipulative or self-centred, which unfortunately he comes across as being.

Have you pointed out that you will always be the “bad cop” in her eyes because she refuses to be told the truth

I would actually get angry and tell her she needs to take over caring for her father if that how she feels and if she thinks you should divorce then she needs to tell him to divorce you.

You are not going for a divorce as that will just mean he can play the victim and manipulate all his children in thinking you are the terrible parent.

If that is how all of the children feel then they need to give up on their plans now and start looking after their father who despite you being missing for 4 days and 4 nights hadn’t even tried to contact you.

The children havent seen inside OP's marriage she has shielded them. She has been the stalk of the plant , he has had the "petal" role.
He has been kind & inoffensive to them.
The issue is OP has had no love or support.
Stop trying to fathom why he isn't trying to fix or discuss.
Stop trying to explain to DCs, you will tie yourself up in knots.
Go with the stock response, if required.
"The marriage was making you unhappy".

A marriage with only one participant is not what you signed up for