Neurodivergent husband has brought me to my knees, am I unreasonable to leave him ?

[MyNextSteps]

This is my first Mumsnet post so I'm sorry but this will be a long rant. But I have really lost my way and would appreciate everyone's thoughts.

My husband and I are in our late 50s and have been married for 25 years and have 5 kids who are late teens/20s.

The marriage has always had something "not quite right", something missing which I couldn't explain. DH didn't have many girlfriends I thought he was just shy. Once married I always felt he was avoidant, pulling away, preoccupied, unavailable, never initiated sex. If I ever tried to raise it, even gently, he was irritable and defensive, saying my "constant criticism and oversensitivity" was the problem and then he'd try to run away or hang up the phone or get busy or fall asleep or get one of the kids to interrupt us to shut me down. He is also very interested in facts not feelings and tends to disconnect from conversations once he's satisfied himself of the facts.

Eventually I dragged DH to therapy wondering if he was a covert narcissist but this year he's been diagnosed with High Functioning Autism Level 1 (Aspergers) which explains everything. I feel I'm in a nightmare as our story started out as a fairytale with our beautiful kids but now I'm acceptingw nothing will change with DH.

We both had good careers but I stayed at home to raise the kids. He worked hard to provide for us all but had a long commute. We moved out to the coast and bought a rambling old house with land, did it up and we have a small holding with animals. DH seemed to avoid intimacy but I didn't question it as he was tired and working so hard and so was I. He never took me out in the evening or hired a babysitter or took me away for a few nights. We only ever went away with the kids but I was so in the tunnel of parenthood and we didn't have much money to spare so I didn't really stop to question it.

Gradually the kids grew up and then DH stopped work and I thought we would spend more time together but I gradually realized he wasn't interested. Once he stopped work and was around 24/7 and the kids were grown up, it dawned on me that he was just making excuses to avoid time with me and avoid intimacy.

We did years of marriage therapy but he could neither express his feelings at all (alexithymia) or understand mine. He just cannot hear me - all he can hear is that he's being criticized and then he becomes a professional victim. I have given him a million chances to sort himself out, so many times we have fought and he always comes back, says sorry but nothing changes. Our therapist said he wouldn't change and to leave him as he wasn't able or interested in meeting my needs.

Some of the worst family fights have been when I have been angry with DH and then he goes to the kids and portrays himself as a victim and me as the perpetrator. Then the kids (who are angry he's so weak) stand up for him. So I'm then fighting my own kids and he sits there with his head in his hands not speaking while it all kicks off between me and the kids.

So there have been times when the kids have seen me as the aggressive bad cop whilst he is good cop being their friend as he does everything for them, drives them around, gives them money and never sets rules or boundaries. Mum "wears the trousers" and keeps it all fair and accountable. Although the kids hate on me for being bad cop I notice when life gets tricky they all come running to me for guidance because I'm actually the only real parent.

Every time the whole family gets together which is now only about twice a year I work hard to cook food and make it nice but either my husband or one of the ND kids has a meltdown or shutdown which ruins the occasion and the family doesn't speak for months, I am beginning to dread get togethers.

Now his daily routine is to get up feeling anxious and then just drift around for the rest of the day, no plan, no goals, achieving not much, never gets together with friends, sometimes hangs with his family (many of them have the same issues as him) low functioning, wears same clothes for days. If I ask him to do something he'll do it eventually but then says I'm bossy and that he feels "controlled" and then makes sure the kids know it.

Some of our kids have various neurodiverse traits/issues and DH and I clashed seriously about how to raise them because as a ND himself his first instinct was to deny their problems and help them to mask whereas I as an NT wanted to get them diagnosed and get them help. DH also insisted that we don't mention anyone's diagnosis in the family (shame) so when several of the kids have huge meltdowns we are not allowed to address it with the other kids and I can see that they feel guilty and responsible when it's not their fault.

Things have come to a head in the last few months. DH was being assessed for suspected cancer. He wasn't able to process many feelings about that beyond being sure he didn't want the kids to know. I did all the worrying and supporting whilst he looked blank and numb all through Christmas. Finally this week he got the "all clear", he did express some relief but I was hugely emotional after the hospital.

The same night one of our kids rang up and shouted at me because she'd given a message to DH for me to do something but he hadn't passed it on to me so I hadn't done what she needed me to do. I was still emotional from the hospital so after she'd put the phone down I was angry with DH that he hadn't passed on the message. He denied this so we started to argue. DH then portrayed himself a a victim in front of one of our sons who got aggressive with me and goaded and shoved me (he's 6 ft) and started being verbally abusive and telling me I was crazy (he didn't know about the hospital or cancer scare at all so didn't know why I was so emotional). I said to DH "tell him to stop" but DH said "why should he stop abusing you when you abuse me ?" (professional victim).

In that moment after 25 years something snapped in me. I did something I've never done before. I calmly put together a small bag of clothes and walked out. I drove off and checked into a local B&B where I am sitting now with no idea about my next move.

DH has brought me to my knees. It's not what he does, it's what he DOESN'T do, he's just absent from our marriage. He doesn't want me to leave but he doesn't want to have a relationship with me either. He just wants a housekeeper/secretary/organizer/mother not a wife. I want to leave him but then I break up the family, we lose our lovely home and I get blamed for that by him and the kids, I lose my smallholding and animals and will have to give up my dream part time job that I have taken up in the last few years too, so essentially I lose my entire life as it is currently.

I rang DH from the B&B to discuss the issues. He said "all you do is criticize me, I'm a victim" and hung up. He didn't want to discuss the issues because he can't summarize or express his feelings. He says he can't change and I am persecuting him to do things he can't do. He then said by the way if I was moving out then he'd sell our home and small holding because he wasn't interested in it anyway he only bought it for me (first I heard about that, he was the one that insisted we buy it when I wanted to stay in the city !). I went back briefly to our home to collect clothes etc and he was just lying flat on the sofa staring into space, washing left in the machine overnight, last night's dinner still on the table untouched, curtains not drawn, animals not fed, plants not watered, post not opened etc.

AIBU to leave and break up the family and sell our family home and smallholding and rehome the animals ? Or am I overreacting and should I accept he can't change, stop asking him to and just suck it up for the sake of the family ? DH is not a bad person, we have a lot in common with our joint kids, life and animals. He worked hard to support us all, he's never been unfaithful or had addictions or been abusive (contrast I've been a drunk and screaming harridan more than once when pushed beyond human limits by rigid and goading ND family members). I am also nearly 60 and have let myself go with all the stress. Dating now fills me with horror, what are my chances anyway and my friends are having horror stories on Bumble.... I would also have to go back to full time work at 60 to support myself and the children would be hostile to a new partner as they feel responsible for their victim dad. But he is not my husband or lover and he's more friends with the kids than a father to them. He is a professional victim and he has no capacity for a marriage or partnership with me. I would be happy to live alone but I keep having the sad thought that I don't want to get to the end of my life without having experienced a true and loving partnership.

If I could find a way to stay with DH I would but I have tried to compromise a million times. I don't want to have an affair either but it seems that if I stay I would have to completely deny my own needs for love, support, intimacy, boundaries, joint parenting, joy etc and life is too short for that. Advice please.

Is the non reply and waiting for instruction typical autistic behaviour due to alexithymia or is the refusal to discuss or be curious up narcissistic self defense ?

Is he just getting me to end it so he cannpirtray himself as victim ( eg manipulation)

When I am happy he just takes and gives nothing and when I'm sad or angry he gives nothing and when I finally leave he gives nothing.

ND people on this chat can you tell me how you would react to your partner walking out in despair ? Or can you shed some light on his mental process right now ?

I'm not looking to excuse him but just to understand from his perspective. To make me feel less crazy.

Thank you.

I think you need to stop tying yourself up in knots analysing this man and start planning the rest of your life.

None of that matters. None of it. Whatever his thought processes or motivations, the impact of his behaviour on you is the same. So, instead of obsessively poring over the whats and whys of said behaviour, figure out what you want and start working towards that.

ND people like routine and sameness. You’ve just switched off his GPS to navigate life because you’ve done it for him all his life. You’re not there and he’s in free fall.

He’s now got no system to pin anything on.

This is not your fault. He’s going to need time to adjust.

Often these people cannot imagine scenarios of things happening until they actually happen.

He has not planned for any of this I would imagine and that’s why he’s in such shock.

Some can only experience feelings once a situation happens. They cannot project forward and imagine it.

Sometimes it can be the result of the dynamic of the relationship. If you've always been the one to carry the mental load, compromise, make things work, etc, it might not even occur for him to try figure this out for himself. So he's waiting for you to tell him what he has to do to fix this, as always.

He probably knows he's making you miserable, but he doesn't realise that this is something he can change. He thinks he can't help it and that you just don't understand. Hence his feeling sorry for himself.

Many of us on the NT/ND partner threads have read both sides of partnerswalking out in despair.

It just means you’re not well matched anymore. Not that either party is to blame.

He will fight hard for a return to the norm because that’s what he knows and he won’t welcome change.

Once he knows that’s not available he could turn quite nasty.

Then once a new set up is established he could become nicer again.

just summarising what I’ve seen before in these situations.

I can't imagine my partner walking out like this because we don't have that type of relationship. We both have good insight into ourselves and each other. We know when to compromise and make adjustments because of the ND and when to not pander to the secondary consequences of the ND. Things like he'll help me with an issue, but he won't do it for me. I still have to do things, with his support, and it's his support that enables me to do things.

Unfortunately, you have fallen into the cycle of doing everything for him (at your own expense) because he's ND, and so he's never learned to do things for himself. It's a learned helplessness. At his age now it's very unlikely he will be able to change that.

I think you both likely have very different attachment styles too. He is very avoidant and shuts down. You are potentially anxious and need reassurance. This can become a very difficult dynamic. As I said earlier, he just won’t meet your needs. Analysing his behaviours will just serve to keep you stuck. I say this as a psychologist - I love a bit of analysis 🤣 but it is so important to know when to stop, analysis paralysis is very real. Keep moving forwards OP. It’s likely lots of insights will come to you naturally once you’ve had time and space away from him to process.

OP, going by what my dd (who is ND) would do, she would probably freeze. In your dh's situation, she would not know the first thing about how to find or consult a lawyer. She would not look at places to move out to. As for any strong emotions, she would not know how to handle that so would just slope off into a peaceful refuge, usually her bedroom. But that is dd and I would not assume all other ND people react in the same way.

On top of being ND, your dh is a nasty person. So even if he were in despair, he will not show it to you. He will goad you to the point of losing control because that is how he gets his kicks or relief. That means not giving you what you want - which is to beg you to come back - at all costs. So don't waste time trying to analyse how he is taking your impending departure.

His previous actions speak louder than words. Please look after yourself and keep moving forward.

I would suggest seeing a divorce lawyer asap before saying any more to dh.

I suspect if you include in your separation announcement what you want him to do, he will take it better and not obstruct you. But that depends on what the divorce lawyers consider a fair split of the assets and finances and what he will have to live on after the divorce.

I left my autistic recently diagnosed husband 3 years ago and I am much happier. I then got diagnosed with adhd recently. I seem to notice a lot of add men appear to be with adhd women (mostly undiagnosed) which i find interesting and would love to research this maybe at some point. But if you arent happy life's for living.

I'm not ND but grew up in a household where many others had ND diagnosis. If I were trying to decipher his perspective now I'd say he's lost his routine, the change has thrown him and it likely hasn't occurred to him that he can do something to move forward. That would be typical, and very similar to how people in my own life would initially respond.

I also highly suspect though, that at least one child has asked him what he's going to do and his preference is to do nothing. It's hard to maintain a victim persona when you're being decisive and taking control. Now that you're not there to deflect on to, he'll be reluctant to do much more than wallow. Just my own experience and opinion, but I don't think that has anything to do with his diagnosis.

There's no point trying to figure him out though, his ND means that he just won't be processing and considering things the way you do. Other aspects of his personality which are nothing to do with autism mean he probably doesn't want to either.

In your shoes I'd be taking steps to make the split permanent. What you described is no way to live.

Please don't lump all ND people under one banner!

I have ADHD and am not into routine and sameness at all. Autistic people often do like routine, but some more than others and you can't just assume the same for all autistic people - nor that this is the specific reason for the OP's husband's response.

"These people" FFS. You make us sound like animals at a zoo!

I have no doubt the OP's husbands response is related to his neurodiversity, but ND people - just like all people - are complex human beings with personalities and you can't just lump us all in together and make up simple reasons for our behaviour.

His behaviour might be to do with lacking empathy and an understanding of what's expected in this situation, together with being totally self centred, and nothing to do with routine, for example. Or any of a zillion other reasons.

At the end of the day though, does it really matter why? The more important thing is he is treating the OP like this and is very unlikely to change. Trying to figure out his thought processes is a red herring IMO.

I totally understand the need to understand, but it can divert your time and energy that you could better spend working out next steps.

I’ve read all your updates and the thing that stands out to me is that he is not capable of communicating. Actually I think is isn’t capable of doing anything but for himself. Whether that is due to his ND or personality or choice is largely irrelevant because he can’t change.

It’s also the love of the drama and using you to express his emotions that is totally unacceptable.

having given so much of your life to this man you should very much consider spreading your wings and living your life for you.

maybe talk to your daughter and no matter what your husbands wishes have a full and Frank conversation with your adult children.

I do know all this being ND myself. Just using same language as OP for simplicity. Sorry if you were offended.

Undiagnosed ADD myself and utterly stifled by routines at times. Find myself climbing the walls with ASD DH who adores his routines but actually can cope very well outside of them but just has a tendency to systemise everything which while good in some ways makes life feel very boring at times.

Thanks for your reply @PlopSofa :)

Don't worry, I'm not offended, just didn't think it was factual that all ND poeple think the same way - find it hard to keep quiet when I think stuff is wrong, probably due to my ADHD brain

Also, I probably should have made it clearer the bit from "At the end of the day though, does it really matter why?" is aimed at the OP really. I think we can drive ourselves round the bend trying to work out why partners behalve terribly, but actually that can be a monumental waste of time, when what we should be doing in planning our exit.

I agree with @ForZanyAquaViewer . Don’t waste your energy trying to analyze him. The bare facts are that you’re miserable on this relationship and have been for several years. Focus on freeing yourself from it. 💐

I completely agree. The analysis just causes paralysis and takes you nowhere! After so many years together though it's hard to close the chapter as you want answers. But in the end, I'm not sure there are any with these sorts of relationships. Certainly not early on. It's only with hindsight one starts to see more clearly and by then, decisions have already been made!

He said he was "devastated", I think that expresses a huge amount of emotional response to your absence. I know it's not an essay length response, or detailed in any way, its not instructive or even questioning, but it is very clear.

Is it possible that you have decided nothing he does is going to be the right response, because you've simply crossed that tolerance threshold and are living on the other side of it? If this is the case I wouldn't bother asking about his responses here, I would just leave.

As others have rightfully pointed out, I will also remind you that people can be ND and complete and utter arseholes. He sounds like he ticks both boxes.

I am staying with oldest DD for a few days. I tried to speak to her about the situation.

She is setting a clear boundary that she doesn't want to get involved between us, we are both her parents. She says she has witnessed our toxic conflict for years and it's boring and unbearable and divorce would be a relief for all the kids.

She says she's seen me be a "shouty harridan" and she's not seen DH do anything, but she doesn't want to hear what either of us has done when she's not around.

So in her head I'm the main villain. That also matches with me being the "bad cop" parent too so she believes it. DH's victimhood has clearly worked with the kids.

I am the villain who plagued her dad, and broke up her family and took away her family home and her animals.

She is NT and fairly aware so I doubt the rest of the kids will get it.

She doesn't see that neglect and withholding of love is abuse or that silence from DH in terms of discussing a way forward is cruel and manipulative.

She may see more in time. As hard as it is, if your life with your H is intolerable then you need to look after yourself and change it. It’s not your dd’s life and so while she may have an opinion, it’s only that. It isn’t the truth. And moreover, it isn’t up to her to decide what you have to tolerate. The only person who can make that choice is you.

Your DC are still quite young @MyNextSteps and probably don't understand relationship dynamics very well. They aren't 'siding' with your DH, they just don't really know what to do with/about him, because he's so passive. Their relationship with him is not your relationship with him.

I think your relationship with your DC will improve when you're happier i.e. when you've bought your own home and are living a life separate to your useless DH. I can imagine - in a year's time - them visiting you and everyone enjoying each other's company.

@MyNextSteps As hard as it is, I think you’ve got to try not to involve your children in this, or need them to validate your experiences. They won’t share your perspective because they are the children in this dynamic, they only know him as a father not a husband, it puts them in an impossible position of having to choose alliances. It is always easiest to notice / blame the person who is more vocal and emotionally expressive, your husband is an avoider/withdrawer which means his behaviour is more covertly problematic. He is used to playing a victim role, but you can shift this by untangling yourself from this dynamic and therefore not taking the role of persecutor. Your children will see things and understand in their own time, I think the best course of action is to protect your relationship with them and not drag them into it all. I would stick to the main points and seek validation through your friends (and on here!). You can respect your daughters boundaries and still do what is best for you. Things will improve in time, you will be happier and your children will see this.

Is the non reply and waiting for instruction typical autistic behaviour
No, not necessarily typical autistic behaviour. The non-reply might be a 'freeze' response. Or it may be that he does not see that there is anything to say to you.
He is waiting for instruction as that is the pattern you and he have.

His mind might be going over the possibilities: if she does X, then Y follows and Z, or if she does ABC then DEF follows, or the outcome will be PQR.
It is like an algebra problem. There are a limited number of outcomes to this situation. He is waiting to see what you will do.

due to alexithymia
maybe. Or it may be that he does not see how emotions are relevant to this situation. There are decisions for you to make, and certain outcomes and actions will follow.

or is the refusal to discuss or be curious up narcissistic self defense ?
the refusal to discuss may be self-defence; he wants to avoid conflict. The lack of curiosity may be that he has already worked out all the likely outcomes and subsequent chains of events (and is awaiting your move).
He is not curious about your emotions or your process as that is part of the ASD.

Is he just getting me to end it
He probably does not want it to end. But he can do nothing to stop it ending.

so he can portray himself as victim ( eg manipulation)
He genuinely feels like a victim. Many ASD people just hate emotional 'scenes', conflict, shouting, tears, etc. He feels like the victim of your emotions. He feels that you have been emotionally abusing him for years.

Deliberate manipulation is unlikely, but it is not entirely impossible, as he has studied you for decades so can likely predict your responses. But unless there is a clear motivation, a definite goal and a plan and a gain for him, he won't be manipulating you 'just for fun' like a psychopath.

When I am happy he just takes and gives nothing and when I'm sad or angry he gives nothing and when I finally leave he gives nothing.

When you say "gives nothing", do you specifically mean "gives a show of genuine emotion and engages in the process of relationship". If so, yes, he gives nothing because he has nothing to give, and doesn't understand why it is needed. He is blind to the fact that he "gives nothing".

Why would he want to talk about emotions and how you feel (or how anyone feels)? It is just not interesting. Unless 'human psychology' is a special interest for an ASD person, it takes an effort to get involved. There are other more interesting things to think about.

He does 'give' in other ways, e.g. by ferrying the children around or providing for the family materially.

I am not saying that he is thinking any of this (none of us know) - just that this is an ASD way of thinking.

But as others have said here, the time for you analysing what is going on in his head is past.

Hmm I don't think it is particularly fair to discuss this stuff with your children tbh. They've been exposed to too much. They can't be objective or unbiased. It's not necessarily because he has manipulated him, but rather because he is their father and they dont want to keep being dragged into it. Children should never be put in the position to have to pick sides or support adults.