Neurodivergent husband has brought me to my knees, am I unreasonable to leave him ?

[MyNextSteps]

This is my first Mumsnet post so I'm sorry but this will be a long rant. But I have really lost my way and would appreciate everyone's thoughts.

My husband and I are in our late 50s and have been married for 25 years and have 5 kids who are late teens/20s.

The marriage has always had something "not quite right", something missing which I couldn't explain. DH didn't have many girlfriends I thought he was just shy. Once married I always felt he was avoidant, pulling away, preoccupied, unavailable, never initiated sex. If I ever tried to raise it, even gently, he was irritable and defensive, saying my "constant criticism and oversensitivity" was the problem and then he'd try to run away or hang up the phone or get busy or fall asleep or get one of the kids to interrupt us to shut me down. He is also very interested in facts not feelings and tends to disconnect from conversations once he's satisfied himself of the facts.

Eventually I dragged DH to therapy wondering if he was a covert narcissist but this year he's been diagnosed with High Functioning Autism Level 1 (Aspergers) which explains everything. I feel I'm in a nightmare as our story started out as a fairytale with our beautiful kids but now I'm acceptingw nothing will change with DH.

We both had good careers but I stayed at home to raise the kids. He worked hard to provide for us all but had a long commute. We moved out to the coast and bought a rambling old house with land, did it up and we have a small holding with animals. DH seemed to avoid intimacy but I didn't question it as he was tired and working so hard and so was I. He never took me out in the evening or hired a babysitter or took me away for a few nights. We only ever went away with the kids but I was so in the tunnel of parenthood and we didn't have much money to spare so I didn't really stop to question it.

Gradually the kids grew up and then DH stopped work and I thought we would spend more time together but I gradually realized he wasn't interested. Once he stopped work and was around 24/7 and the kids were grown up, it dawned on me that he was just making excuses to avoid time with me and avoid intimacy.

We did years of marriage therapy but he could neither express his feelings at all (alexithymia) or understand mine. He just cannot hear me - all he can hear is that he's being criticized and then he becomes a professional victim. I have given him a million chances to sort himself out, so many times we have fought and he always comes back, says sorry but nothing changes. Our therapist said he wouldn't change and to leave him as he wasn't able or interested in meeting my needs.

Some of the worst family fights have been when I have been angry with DH and then he goes to the kids and portrays himself as a victim and me as the perpetrator. Then the kids (who are angry he's so weak) stand up for him. So I'm then fighting my own kids and he sits there with his head in his hands not speaking while it all kicks off between me and the kids.

So there have been times when the kids have seen me as the aggressive bad cop whilst he is good cop being their friend as he does everything for them, drives them around, gives them money and never sets rules or boundaries. Mum "wears the trousers" and keeps it all fair and accountable. Although the kids hate on me for being bad cop I notice when life gets tricky they all come running to me for guidance because I'm actually the only real parent.

Every time the whole family gets together which is now only about twice a year I work hard to cook food and make it nice but either my husband or one of the ND kids has a meltdown or shutdown which ruins the occasion and the family doesn't speak for months, I am beginning to dread get togethers.

Now his daily routine is to get up feeling anxious and then just drift around for the rest of the day, no plan, no goals, achieving not much, never gets together with friends, sometimes hangs with his family (many of them have the same issues as him) low functioning, wears same clothes for days. If I ask him to do something he'll do it eventually but then says I'm bossy and that he feels "controlled" and then makes sure the kids know it.

Some of our kids have various neurodiverse traits/issues and DH and I clashed seriously about how to raise them because as a ND himself his first instinct was to deny their problems and help them to mask whereas I as an NT wanted to get them diagnosed and get them help. DH also insisted that we don't mention anyone's diagnosis in the family (shame) so when several of the kids have huge meltdowns we are not allowed to address it with the other kids and I can see that they feel guilty and responsible when it's not their fault.

Things have come to a head in the last few months. DH was being assessed for suspected cancer. He wasn't able to process many feelings about that beyond being sure he didn't want the kids to know. I did all the worrying and supporting whilst he looked blank and numb all through Christmas. Finally this week he got the "all clear", he did express some relief but I was hugely emotional after the hospital.

The same night one of our kids rang up and shouted at me because she'd given a message to DH for me to do something but he hadn't passed it on to me so I hadn't done what she needed me to do. I was still emotional from the hospital so after she'd put the phone down I was angry with DH that he hadn't passed on the message. He denied this so we started to argue. DH then portrayed himself a a victim in front of one of our sons who got aggressive with me and goaded and shoved me (he's 6 ft) and started being verbally abusive and telling me I was crazy (he didn't know about the hospital or cancer scare at all so didn't know why I was so emotional). I said to DH "tell him to stop" but DH said "why should he stop abusing you when you abuse me ?" (professional victim).

In that moment after 25 years something snapped in me. I did something I've never done before. I calmly put together a small bag of clothes and walked out. I drove off and checked into a local B&B where I am sitting now with no idea about my next move.

DH has brought me to my knees. It's not what he does, it's what he DOESN'T do, he's just absent from our marriage. He doesn't want me to leave but he doesn't want to have a relationship with me either. He just wants a housekeeper/secretary/organizer/mother not a wife. I want to leave him but then I break up the family, we lose our lovely home and I get blamed for that by him and the kids, I lose my smallholding and animals and will have to give up my dream part time job that I have taken up in the last few years too, so essentially I lose my entire life as it is currently.

I rang DH from the B&B to discuss the issues. He said "all you do is criticize me, I'm a victim" and hung up. He didn't want to discuss the issues because he can't summarize or express his feelings. He says he can't change and I am persecuting him to do things he can't do. He then said by the way if I was moving out then he'd sell our home and small holding because he wasn't interested in it anyway he only bought it for me (first I heard about that, he was the one that insisted we buy it when I wanted to stay in the city !). I went back briefly to our home to collect clothes etc and he was just lying flat on the sofa staring into space, washing left in the machine overnight, last night's dinner still on the table untouched, curtains not drawn, animals not fed, plants not watered, post not opened etc.

AIBU to leave and break up the family and sell our family home and smallholding and rehome the animals ? Or am I overreacting and should I accept he can't change, stop asking him to and just suck it up for the sake of the family ? DH is not a bad person, we have a lot in common with our joint kids, life and animals. He worked hard to support us all, he's never been unfaithful or had addictions or been abusive (contrast I've been a drunk and screaming harridan more than once when pushed beyond human limits by rigid and goading ND family members). I am also nearly 60 and have let myself go with all the stress. Dating now fills me with horror, what are my chances anyway and my friends are having horror stories on Bumble.... I would also have to go back to full time work at 60 to support myself and the children would be hostile to a new partner as they feel responsible for their victim dad. But he is not my husband or lover and he's more friends with the kids than a father to them. He is a professional victim and he has no capacity for a marriage or partnership with me. I would be happy to live alone but I keep having the sad thought that I don't want to get to the end of my life without having experienced a true and loving partnership.

If I could find a way to stay with DH I would but I have tried to compromise a million times. I don't want to have an affair either but it seems that if I stay I would have to completely deny my own needs for love, support, intimacy, boundaries, joint parenting, joy etc and life is too short for that. Advice please.

Oh you have my sympathy OP. I love my DH but I’ve been neglected for years.

Ive spent thousands on therapy instead and am grateful to know it’s not me, but it also burns all the hope to have for a normal relationship once you see how they will never change.

Be careful with your heart, I know you’d like a fling but you’re vulnerable right now.

I hope you’ll find a nice new place where you can start to rebuild who you are.

I have to say im stunned at the numbers of people who have experienced the same. We are all in the dysfunctional relationship widows club it seems.

At least you are leaving… im stuck for another 3 or so years maybe more until kids are old enough for me to leave.

Enjoy your freedom! I’m not far behind you!

Op, please don't feel you need to justify why you stayed. It's obvious raising 5 kids would mean marital issues took a back seat & it was easier to be a SAHM at that point. People are being v dense & insensitive not to see that.

This. It’s very easy to judge a situation when you’re not in it.

@Jimmyneutronsforehead It's actually very difficult to diagnose autism and much of it is based on judgement of the person doing the assessing, although when it's severe and in a child, that's different.

It's incredibly hard to diagnose someone close to 60 with autism because the line between learned behaviour and being neurodiverse is a fine one.

My concern now is that a range of relatively normal behaviour is now being diagnosed as autism. Or that a label of autism is being used for behaviour that isn't acceptable within a relationship, for example.

You probably won't agree, but that's my view.

I am a psychologist who is trained to diagnose neurodivergence and I agree. There is so much overlap between ADHD, trauma and anxiety for example - a thorough assessment is needed to unpack these complexities, and I worry about these assessments being completed privately by lesser qualified professionals who can charge a small fortune.

I’ll shut up now and stop de-railing!

A diagnosis is a judgement from multiple professionals under a multidisciplinary team, based on whether a person meets the triad of impairments and has done consistently since childhood, and whether they're significantly impared by them and also to rule out any other conditions that could cause such behaviours. It isn't just based on the judgement of a singular person doing an assessment.

Having been through the process myself as an adult I'm actually very aware of how in depth they delve into your life to ensure that behaviours are present throughout and they look for things you don't even notice in your assessment. They are also highly aware of masking individuals as they asked me to participate in a masking assessment.

So I do disagree with your opinion because your opinion isn't fact.

And back to my original point, no, not everyone is on the spectrum. Only autistic people are.

What about if finances allowed (and planning) getting a static caravan (or even converting an outbuilding/building something) for one of you to live in so you don't have to sell up but can live separately and you can move on with your life

That 's a good idea!

A diagnosis is often made off a singular judgement, even within the NHS. I do not work in specialist ND services myself, but I’ve known many patients (and friends of mine) be diagnosed with a form of ND after meeting with a psychiatrist 2-3 times for an assessment. The multi perspective nature of these assessments tend to be questionnaires completed by a family member/ someone who knows the person over a lengthy period. Private assessments can be even more brief. As a clinician I do have concerns about this, I’m glad to hear you had a comprehensive assessment but it’s definitely not always the case.

Anyway - I agree with your point re being on the spectrum.

So I do disagree with your opinion because your opinion isn't fact.

The facts in your post are that your assessment was intense, and that many professionals were involved. That maximizes the chance of correct diagnosis.

However, it is also a fact that the diagnosis developed isn't always correct, that many other conditions can look like autism. A robust procedure and trained clinicians can help with this, but believing they always get it right is your opinion.

Some of the worst family fights have been when I have been angry with DH and then he goes to the kids and portrays himself as a victim and me as the perpetrator. Then the kids (who are angry he's so weak) stand up for him. So I'm then fighting my own kids and he sits there with his head in his hands not speaking while it all kicks off between me and the kids.
So there have been times when the kids have seen me as the aggressive bad cop whilst he is good cop being their friend as he does everything for them, drives them around, gives them money and never sets rules or boundaries. Mum "wears the trousers" and keeps it all fair and accountable. Although the kids hate on me for being bad cop I notice when life gets tricky they all come running to me for guidance because I'm actually the only real parent.

Op, I could have written so much of your thread. I'm sorry you find yourself here. Again, husband retired and it became far more noticeable, it seemed to tick over whilst husband was working. You have woken up to this and so did I a couple of years ago. It has taken a while for me to get here but I plan to divorce my husband and go my own way. He very much plays the victim and refuses to look at himself and his behaviour. He has tried alienating the dc against me and making the dc believe I am the bad one and the dc have began copying some of his behaviour. Lesser house and comforts for me too but you only get one life and enough is enough, I'd rather live without than carrying living like this.

However, it is also a fact that the diagnosis developed isn't always correct, that many other conditions can look like autism. - I agree, see: FAS for an example.

but believing they always get it right is your opinion. - I haven't said they always get it right. I explained what the diagnostic process looks for, and one of those things is to rule out any other possible cause. Nowhere in my post did I state that they always get it right.

I have however disputed with the poster that everyone is not on the spectrum. - this is factual. You can only be on the autism spectrum if you're autistic.

I also disagreed with that poster as they claimed that a range of normal behaviour is now being diagnosed as autism. Barring a margin of error which is expected within any diagnostic process, the behaviours that they look for in autism are categorised within the triad of impairments. Behaviours may appear to be normal, but may be a-typical in frequency and intensity and the only reason we would perceive them as normal is because we have a better understanding of how autism can present.

I wish you all the best OP.

I have a person like this is my life - and I believe that sometimes it does not really matter why they act the way they do, is it autism, trauma, personality or all of the above. If they hurt you and do not want to or do not see a reason to change - you leave.

Free yourself!

@Marriumph so are you in a nd/nt relationship or have you ever been?

OP it’s time to put yourself first. you can tell your children:

After 6 years of therapy, as a result of which there was a ND diagnosis (state name of diagnosis and it is hereditary so kids please feel free to get assessed), I have decided to follow the therapists guidance which is to separate to protect my mental health and to avoid any further irreparable unhappy dynamics between Dad and I. The therapist has advised that this is the best option for both of us and the therapist has terminated the therapy sessions on that basis.

There has been certain health shocks that dad and I navigated together, which are now all clear. Please respect our health privacy at this time, perhaps in future we can discuss, but the preference currently is to put those concerns behind us. There is no further treatment necessary as that health scare is no longer an issue and rest assured dad and I are physically healthy. I hope you understand that some of these life roadbumps have taken a toll on my coping skills and I now need to focus on my physical and mental health. We will try to navigate this time as reasonably and sensitively as possible. Please know this decision has not been taken lightly and I want to move forward with love and compassion for the family. __

Your children deserve to know and to be treated with respect as well .

(thank you all so much for sharing your insights , I ve learned so much from this thread. )

I hope you're doing ok. I'll just say that you only have one life. You are desperately unhappy and that's not going to change if you leave everything as it is.

OP, I think you should 100% focus on self care for the next 6 months. No men, no dating, no making yourself vulnerable. Wrap yourself in cotton wool and focus on loving yourself and your health.

Your relationship is not working out. Period. Move on. If you got hit by a bud in the morning - what would you regret? Staying or going?

Just an update. So I have been away now for 6 nights now staying with daughter for a few days.

DH finally messaged me after 4 days and said he was DEVASTATED. But then no follow through. Just said he is rattling around at home, should he take it that I am not coming home ? That he's going for a drive to clear his head. Hints of victim and also livid but I can see he's too scared to express that currently.

But no capacity to make sense of why I walked out, no curiosity or reflection on his behaviour. Just wants me to TELL him what is happening next. Genuinely cannot see that what he does next has any bearing on what I decide to do, doesn't realise he could influence that decision (eg declaration of undying love, heartfelt remorse expressed, growth mindset to behave differently going forward, clear awareness of his own needs going forward to in that fairytale world then we might stay together).

I am VERY CLEAR that this will not happen but I am actually shocked at how little feeling and analysis is going on with him. I can't believe I've lived all this time with someone with such superficial feelings. If I dropped dead on the spit would he even react ? How did I not notice he is like this ? Did I imagine that he expressed feelings at key high and low points in our marriage. He did go through the motions of expressing his feelings to me (he told me he loved me each day and cared when I was happy or sad) but it felt hollow somehow, was it all masking ? I feel panicky with shock that I've been living with someone masking and on autopilot all this time and just projecting that he had deep feelings towards me and the kids.

It's like a bad nightmare I am in shock and with this new insight the only way forward is to leave.

I think your latest post just shows that you are doing the right thing by walking away, as hard as that will be - you can never get your needs met by him, and you will continually be perplexed, frustrated and driven mad if you stay.

Focus on repairing relationships with your children and your own wellbeing.

Listen to Dr Ramani on you tube. He could be a covert narcissist too. Good luck. You deserve better than this.

Look up DARVO
gaslighting
reactive abuse.

You are not going mad. He’s not a nice man.

This is so giid!

I agree. Excellent message from @Mollydoggerson

OP, one thing to consider before communicating with your dcs and to include in the message is how this will affect their living arrangements, especially if any of them are still living with you and dh.

I would advise you see a divorce lawyer first to find out your rights in relation to the house and what you might have to pay to your 'd'h in a divorce. Divorce in the UK is generally not kind to the higher earner.

Since he waits for you to tell him what to do next, tell him to leave the house. But you should work out the legalities and logistics first, because you know he won't and also because you now want to work it out to your advantage.

You need to go & collect copies of your admin documents, pension, life insurance, savings, mortgage. passport, marriage cert, all important docs.etc etc.
Plus you should check he isn't emptying your joint bank account...
You need to change your passwords on your cloud, & make sure he isn't able to access your private correspondence.
He may not be able to show any kind of empathy, love or care but my guess is that looking after himself will still be a high priority.
& in full Victim mode try to make your life as difficult as possible.
You are doing the right thing. I would not be protecting him by keeping this health scare a secret.
Your DC walk all over you because he has set you up as the "baddy".
They will probably be all sorts of emotional blackmail from them. ("poor Daddy, who is going to take care of him, he has done nothing wrong".)
You are doing the right thing.
Grey Rock & follow through