Neurodivergent husband has brought me to my knees, am I unreasonable to leave him ?

[MyNextSteps]

This is my first Mumsnet post so I'm sorry but this will be a long rant. But I have really lost my way and would appreciate everyone's thoughts.

My husband and I are in our late 50s and have been married for 25 years and have 5 kids who are late teens/20s.

The marriage has always had something "not quite right", something missing which I couldn't explain. DH didn't have many girlfriends I thought he was just shy. Once married I always felt he was avoidant, pulling away, preoccupied, unavailable, never initiated sex. If I ever tried to raise it, even gently, he was irritable and defensive, saying my "constant criticism and oversensitivity" was the problem and then he'd try to run away or hang up the phone or get busy or fall asleep or get one of the kids to interrupt us to shut me down. He is also very interested in facts not feelings and tends to disconnect from conversations once he's satisfied himself of the facts.

Eventually I dragged DH to therapy wondering if he was a covert narcissist but this year he's been diagnosed with High Functioning Autism Level 1 (Aspergers) which explains everything. I feel I'm in a nightmare as our story started out as a fairytale with our beautiful kids but now I'm acceptingw nothing will change with DH.

We both had good careers but I stayed at home to raise the kids. He worked hard to provide for us all but had a long commute. We moved out to the coast and bought a rambling old house with land, did it up and we have a small holding with animals. DH seemed to avoid intimacy but I didn't question it as he was tired and working so hard and so was I. He never took me out in the evening or hired a babysitter or took me away for a few nights. We only ever went away with the kids but I was so in the tunnel of parenthood and we didn't have much money to spare so I didn't really stop to question it.

Gradually the kids grew up and then DH stopped work and I thought we would spend more time together but I gradually realized he wasn't interested. Once he stopped work and was around 24/7 and the kids were grown up, it dawned on me that he was just making excuses to avoid time with me and avoid intimacy.

We did years of marriage therapy but he could neither express his feelings at all (alexithymia) or understand mine. He just cannot hear me - all he can hear is that he's being criticized and then he becomes a professional victim. I have given him a million chances to sort himself out, so many times we have fought and he always comes back, says sorry but nothing changes. Our therapist said he wouldn't change and to leave him as he wasn't able or interested in meeting my needs.

Some of the worst family fights have been when I have been angry with DH and then he goes to the kids and portrays himself as a victim and me as the perpetrator. Then the kids (who are angry he's so weak) stand up for him. So I'm then fighting my own kids and he sits there with his head in his hands not speaking while it all kicks off between me and the kids.

So there have been times when the kids have seen me as the aggressive bad cop whilst he is good cop being their friend as he does everything for them, drives them around, gives them money and never sets rules or boundaries. Mum "wears the trousers" and keeps it all fair and accountable. Although the kids hate on me for being bad cop I notice when life gets tricky they all come running to me for guidance because I'm actually the only real parent.

Every time the whole family gets together which is now only about twice a year I work hard to cook food and make it nice but either my husband or one of the ND kids has a meltdown or shutdown which ruins the occasion and the family doesn't speak for months, I am beginning to dread get togethers.

Now his daily routine is to get up feeling anxious and then just drift around for the rest of the day, no plan, no goals, achieving not much, never gets together with friends, sometimes hangs with his family (many of them have the same issues as him) low functioning, wears same clothes for days. If I ask him to do something he'll do it eventually but then says I'm bossy and that he feels "controlled" and then makes sure the kids know it.

Some of our kids have various neurodiverse traits/issues and DH and I clashed seriously about how to raise them because as a ND himself his first instinct was to deny their problems and help them to mask whereas I as an NT wanted to get them diagnosed and get them help. DH also insisted that we don't mention anyone's diagnosis in the family (shame) so when several of the kids have huge meltdowns we are not allowed to address it with the other kids and I can see that they feel guilty and responsible when it's not their fault.

Things have come to a head in the last few months. DH was being assessed for suspected cancer. He wasn't able to process many feelings about that beyond being sure he didn't want the kids to know. I did all the worrying and supporting whilst he looked blank and numb all through Christmas. Finally this week he got the "all clear", he did express some relief but I was hugely emotional after the hospital.

The same night one of our kids rang up and shouted at me because she'd given a message to DH for me to do something but he hadn't passed it on to me so I hadn't done what she needed me to do. I was still emotional from the hospital so after she'd put the phone down I was angry with DH that he hadn't passed on the message. He denied this so we started to argue. DH then portrayed himself a a victim in front of one of our sons who got aggressive with me and goaded and shoved me (he's 6 ft) and started being verbally abusive and telling me I was crazy (he didn't know about the hospital or cancer scare at all so didn't know why I was so emotional). I said to DH "tell him to stop" but DH said "why should he stop abusing you when you abuse me ?" (professional victim).

In that moment after 25 years something snapped in me. I did something I've never done before. I calmly put together a small bag of clothes and walked out. I drove off and checked into a local B&B where I am sitting now with no idea about my next move.

DH has brought me to my knees. It's not what he does, it's what he DOESN'T do, he's just absent from our marriage. He doesn't want me to leave but he doesn't want to have a relationship with me either. He just wants a housekeeper/secretary/organizer/mother not a wife. I want to leave him but then I break up the family, we lose our lovely home and I get blamed for that by him and the kids, I lose my smallholding and animals and will have to give up my dream part time job that I have taken up in the last few years too, so essentially I lose my entire life as it is currently.

I rang DH from the B&B to discuss the issues. He said "all you do is criticize me, I'm a victim" and hung up. He didn't want to discuss the issues because he can't summarize or express his feelings. He says he can't change and I am persecuting him to do things he can't do. He then said by the way if I was moving out then he'd sell our home and small holding because he wasn't interested in it anyway he only bought it for me (first I heard about that, he was the one that insisted we buy it when I wanted to stay in the city !). I went back briefly to our home to collect clothes etc and he was just lying flat on the sofa staring into space, washing left in the machine overnight, last night's dinner still on the table untouched, curtains not drawn, animals not fed, plants not watered, post not opened etc.

AIBU to leave and break up the family and sell our family home and smallholding and rehome the animals ? Or am I overreacting and should I accept he can't change, stop asking him to and just suck it up for the sake of the family ? DH is not a bad person, we have a lot in common with our joint kids, life and animals. He worked hard to support us all, he's never been unfaithful or had addictions or been abusive (contrast I've been a drunk and screaming harridan more than once when pushed beyond human limits by rigid and goading ND family members). I am also nearly 60 and have let myself go with all the stress. Dating now fills me with horror, what are my chances anyway and my friends are having horror stories on Bumble.... I would also have to go back to full time work at 60 to support myself and the children would be hostile to a new partner as they feel responsible for their victim dad. But he is not my husband or lover and he's more friends with the kids than a father to them. He is a professional victim and he has no capacity for a marriage or partnership with me. I would be happy to live alone but I keep having the sad thought that I don't want to get to the end of my life without having experienced a true and loving partnership.

If I could find a way to stay with DH I would but I have tried to compromise a million times. I don't want to have an affair either but it seems that if I stay I would have to completely deny my own needs for love, support, intimacy, boundaries, joint parenting, joy etc and life is too short for that. Advice please.

If you end it, throw him out, don't leave the house - for animal care and because he'll probably co-operate with selling it a lot quicker. Make sure you have all necessary documents first (proof of assets, income etc) and get into full time work ASAP.

I was interested in hearing from the OP and how she is doing. I didn't address the behavior of the son, who I believe doesn't live in the home any more.

If you'd like to get into a fight, choose someone else. Polarizing what is a very complex and grey filled relationship issue helps no one, only people like you who clearly use this forum for entertainment.

I'm actually someone who has survived domestic abuse myself and I'm ND. Not entertainment for me. I actually went out of my way to support the OP. Which considering the high risk of me being triggered is quite a big thing for me. You've read a post by me on a thread . You don't know what I'm on MN for. M N was part of helping me leave DA.

That is understandable. I felt you were going for me, but actually you were just triggered by the whole event. I feel strangely triggered as well. I had left MNet completely and re-registered just to speak to the OP because of what she is going through. I am hoping she comes back and that ultimately, she is ok, as I expect you do too.

Not very nice to kick a vulnerable person when they are down . I am sorry if the OP found my commend unhelpful, but I was being sincere. You don't know me. You've read a post by me on one thread. You can't comment on a stranger assuming I use this forum for entertainment . I am a long term poster on the Stately Homes thread and the mental health threads. I've been here for years, then had a long break and joined again this week.

I'm recovering from a breakdown because of the abuse and I'm conflict averse so I'm bowing out now.

good luck OP. I wish you well and everyone else on here.

I think you already replied to me. And I replied back.
No one is kicking anyone.

I'm in the same boat and have been for over 40 years. Leave.

Give him 0 shits!! Just as he does for you. This will either be the quickest divorce as he will love having a project and will love having all the sympathy. Or he will draaaaaag it out as he doesn't realise how much you propped him up. Enjoy your break

I’m in my late 50s and divorced and I don’t feel I am dead yet, or lonely! I don’t want another husband, thank you, divorce has taught me it’s not worth the risk.

I don’t go seeking men on Bumble. At a weak moment I had a brief look at it and found that a) most of them looked knackered and b) men have a funny idea of what dating sites are for. Maybe just a quick shag. Eww. I found it totally unappealing.

My life is better without my also very disinterested and disengaged ex-husband.
It’s not worth being miserable in your “old age”. I am happier alone and I have lots of plans for adventures in the next ten years. On my own!

I lived with an abusive person who had ASD for years. I would say get out and also people become more dangerous when they realise they have nothing to lose, so be very careful going back and maybe don’t tell your children where you are staying. Just for a while until things settle down.

The dynamics will all change when they are alone with him and having to sort all his shit out.

I would nearly go on holiday. I would consider getting a flight and going away for a while.

For someone like this, no matter what you do for them and how much you grind yourself into the earth, it will never be enough. They will only ever think of what you didn’t do.

And you will have to deal with increasing crises as they get older. Get out and join some classes and join a gym and start working on your own life.

If you go away then contacting you or driving around to give you a piece of their mind is not possible. Would seriously consider it.

What exactly is the difference between your Adhd and the new fangled ADHD

From someone who was diagnosed quite recently

@MyNextSteps I don't know if you are reading this still- 17 pages and counting!

However, IMO it's quite simple.

I don't see the point TBH of 17 pages examining his behaviour and ND. Far too many amateur armchair psychs here!

Whatever label you give his behaviour and personality isn't the point.

He won't change.
You won't change.

You're incompatible as a couple and have been for decades.

At 59 you're still a relatively young woman. It's quite likely you will live for another 30 years or more. You can certainly go back into work years if you need to for the money, even just part time. The state pension age is now 67 and increasing, so working later in life is going to be the norm.

Leaving your marriage is a big step. Yes, there will be a financial 'hit' but staying put to avoid that makes no sense.

I understand how hard it is, but you must focus on the better life you could have on your own (for god's sake don't even think about dating or finding another man yet!)

There will be a price to pay- your children will experience the split, you may be a bit poorer - but these are preferable to spending the rest of your life in this marriage which doesn't meet your needs in any way at all.

Once you make the mental shift to accept it's over, I'm sure you'll find the strength to make the practical changes.

There are no health issues that could develop that would make me stay with a man who sat back and watched my son physically attack me.

I wouldn't even want to deal with him in the capacity of a free taxi service. Never mind "company" in my old age. I'd rather stare at the wall for twenty years than at a man like that.

This option also fails to recognise that you could end up being their carer, trapped in your old age caring for someone you despise, and who despises you.

What you say sounds very sensible and I'm sure you've thought about it.
However, I do wonder how many people in the 65 + age group, who are living with a chronic health condition, would express that opinion?
The reality is that our attitudes and needs change as we get older. Loneliness is possibly the biggest challenge for older people.
It may be hard to accept that in one's seventies, the company of a bad-tempered old git, who can being you a cup of tea, may be 100% preferable to seven days a week of watching the tv alone.
If you're short of money, hard of hearing and can't get about, making and maintaining friendships is a challenge.

@SixtySomething

are you totally missing the bit about OP’s husband allowing and actively encouraging their adult son to be physically aggressive towards her??

The wrong company isn't much help when you're lonely.

On the legal side speak to a solicitor. Eg moving back in may be important to prove she is not separately housed. Excluding the husband from the home is probably not going to be allowed until the whole divorce is over. My husband was advised to stay by his solicitor until the bitter end as it was still his house as much as mine until transfer of huge sum to his account, property remortgaged and house transferred into my name. In fact if husband wants to sell the house as in this case and wife cannot afford to buy him out and probably will not get 100% of the equity despite not working as the children are no longer at home it is likely legally to be wife dragging her feet to put off the moment of sale not husband.

They should both see a solicitor and not waste one second of that paid time talking about feelings - only facts as if you want someone to help with feelings see a therapist

No.
Regrettably, plenty of teenagers, especially males, are not above giving their mothers, and others, a shove. It happens. Mostly, they grow out of it. And yes, I've heard of fathers unable to step in. It happens.
Any road, the young man may feel terrible about it. Either way he's already moved out or likely to do so before too long.
It's history.

This sounds like a much needed circuit break. Let them fend for themselves. Take your time to think.

@SixtySomething Stop minimising and normalising abusive behaviour. Absolutely bizarre to be encouraging the OP to stay in an abusive and dysfunctional situation just so she has company when she is older! Also it’s not normal for teenage sons to ‘shove’ their mothers, and for the father to not intervene. I feel I’m in a parallel universe reading your posts.

The OP has a life outside of her husband - she will be fine, much better than fine, once she is away from this toxicity.

@SixtySomething as someone currently single in their forties following divorce after domestic abuse, and with various chronic illnesses, I do worry about getting older without a spouse for company and mutual support etc. I’d also love to meet someone great outside of that whole worry, as I feel I have a lot to give and I’m a very loving person.

And so I do have some sympathy for the view that an imperfect husband is better than no husband especially as you get older; I find it frustrating sometimes seeing people complain about their generally pretty great husband for one thing or another while totally overlooking the amount of support they do give their wives and family that is taken for granted. Including finances, which I find bizarre as it is no small thing to have to run a household and support children on one person’s income, which as a single mother I know only too well.

At the same time I 100 percent would not want to have got older, frailer and sicker while living with an abuser and have zero regrets about ending my marriage, whether or not I meet someone else at some point.

I’m a GP and I have had female patients in their 60s, 70s, even 80s and 90s dealing with domestic abuse from their husbands, having been married all their lives and managing to conceal it previously. Often the abuse actually ramps up if anything with the victim advancing in age and acquiring chronic diseases when someone is abusive. I’ve literally had a couple on their 90s split up after she was punched and pushed down the stairs by her lifelong husband. And it’s so much harder to organise the practicalities of a split in your 90s compared to your 50s. So OP should consider this as well. Because this marriage sounds completely doomed. It’s not going to get better.

So in this case, I really think the OP is better off alone. For me it’s an absolutely unforgivable line in the sand he has crossed here by encouraging physical violence from an adult sized son towards her, and it shows the contempt with which he regards her. This is way beyond someone being a grumpy old git and not great company.

@SixtySomething

its not history. I bet it’s very much still alive and present in OP’s mind. Has she ever had an apology from her husband? From her son? We don’t know if he still lives with her but if he does he does he deserves kicking out.

I understand what you're saying and do agree with your points.
My position is that the OP should have her eyes open. It MAY be that her husband is nothing like husbands you mention in your post.
I'm saying we actually don't know, so it's important OP thinks about it herself from every angle as she is the one who does know the good as well as the bad.

The only thing I don't go along with is the shoving. I think teenagers' hormones are all over the place. There was a general fracas going on and he got carried away. Of course the OP's DH should have been able to intervene or reprove but he can't play that kind of role, sadly for OP and her DS.

But as he has/will be moving on in any case, I don't think it's worth busting up a family over one shove. For all we know, he may feel ashamed of himself.

Please remember, I'm not encouraging anything. i'm simply saying, please think of both sides of the coin.