Neurodivergent husband has brought me to my knees, am I unreasonable to leave him ?

[MyNextSteps]

This is my first Mumsnet post so I'm sorry but this will be a long rant. But I have really lost my way and would appreciate everyone's thoughts.

My husband and I are in our late 50s and have been married for 25 years and have 5 kids who are late teens/20s.

The marriage has always had something "not quite right", something missing which I couldn't explain. DH didn't have many girlfriends I thought he was just shy. Once married I always felt he was avoidant, pulling away, preoccupied, unavailable, never initiated sex. If I ever tried to raise it, even gently, he was irritable and defensive, saying my "constant criticism and oversensitivity" was the problem and then he'd try to run away or hang up the phone or get busy or fall asleep or get one of the kids to interrupt us to shut me down. He is also very interested in facts not feelings and tends to disconnect from conversations once he's satisfied himself of the facts.

Eventually I dragged DH to therapy wondering if he was a covert narcissist but this year he's been diagnosed with High Functioning Autism Level 1 (Aspergers) which explains everything. I feel I'm in a nightmare as our story started out as a fairytale with our beautiful kids but now I'm acceptingw nothing will change with DH.

We both had good careers but I stayed at home to raise the kids. He worked hard to provide for us all but had a long commute. We moved out to the coast and bought a rambling old house with land, did it up and we have a small holding with animals. DH seemed to avoid intimacy but I didn't question it as he was tired and working so hard and so was I. He never took me out in the evening or hired a babysitter or took me away for a few nights. We only ever went away with the kids but I was so in the tunnel of parenthood and we didn't have much money to spare so I didn't really stop to question it.

Gradually the kids grew up and then DH stopped work and I thought we would spend more time together but I gradually realized he wasn't interested. Once he stopped work and was around 24/7 and the kids were grown up, it dawned on me that he was just making excuses to avoid time with me and avoid intimacy.

We did years of marriage therapy but he could neither express his feelings at all (alexithymia) or understand mine. He just cannot hear me - all he can hear is that he's being criticized and then he becomes a professional victim. I have given him a million chances to sort himself out, so many times we have fought and he always comes back, says sorry but nothing changes. Our therapist said he wouldn't change and to leave him as he wasn't able or interested in meeting my needs.

Some of the worst family fights have been when I have been angry with DH and then he goes to the kids and portrays himself as a victim and me as the perpetrator. Then the kids (who are angry he's so weak) stand up for him. So I'm then fighting my own kids and he sits there with his head in his hands not speaking while it all kicks off between me and the kids.

So there have been times when the kids have seen me as the aggressive bad cop whilst he is good cop being their friend as he does everything for them, drives them around, gives them money and never sets rules or boundaries. Mum "wears the trousers" and keeps it all fair and accountable. Although the kids hate on me for being bad cop I notice when life gets tricky they all come running to me for guidance because I'm actually the only real parent.

Every time the whole family gets together which is now only about twice a year I work hard to cook food and make it nice but either my husband or one of the ND kids has a meltdown or shutdown which ruins the occasion and the family doesn't speak for months, I am beginning to dread get togethers.

Now his daily routine is to get up feeling anxious and then just drift around for the rest of the day, no plan, no goals, achieving not much, never gets together with friends, sometimes hangs with his family (many of them have the same issues as him) low functioning, wears same clothes for days. If I ask him to do something he'll do it eventually but then says I'm bossy and that he feels "controlled" and then makes sure the kids know it.

Some of our kids have various neurodiverse traits/issues and DH and I clashed seriously about how to raise them because as a ND himself his first instinct was to deny their problems and help them to mask whereas I as an NT wanted to get them diagnosed and get them help. DH also insisted that we don't mention anyone's diagnosis in the family (shame) so when several of the kids have huge meltdowns we are not allowed to address it with the other kids and I can see that they feel guilty and responsible when it's not their fault.

Things have come to a head in the last few months. DH was being assessed for suspected cancer. He wasn't able to process many feelings about that beyond being sure he didn't want the kids to know. I did all the worrying and supporting whilst he looked blank and numb all through Christmas. Finally this week he got the "all clear", he did express some relief but I was hugely emotional after the hospital.

The same night one of our kids rang up and shouted at me because she'd given a message to DH for me to do something but he hadn't passed it on to me so I hadn't done what she needed me to do. I was still emotional from the hospital so after she'd put the phone down I was angry with DH that he hadn't passed on the message. He denied this so we started to argue. DH then portrayed himself a a victim in front of one of our sons who got aggressive with me and goaded and shoved me (he's 6 ft) and started being verbally abusive and telling me I was crazy (he didn't know about the hospital or cancer scare at all so didn't know why I was so emotional). I said to DH "tell him to stop" but DH said "why should he stop abusing you when you abuse me ?" (professional victim).

In that moment after 25 years something snapped in me. I did something I've never done before. I calmly put together a small bag of clothes and walked out. I drove off and checked into a local B&B where I am sitting now with no idea about my next move.

DH has brought me to my knees. It's not what he does, it's what he DOESN'T do, he's just absent from our marriage. He doesn't want me to leave but he doesn't want to have a relationship with me either. He just wants a housekeeper/secretary/organizer/mother not a wife. I want to leave him but then I break up the family, we lose our lovely home and I get blamed for that by him and the kids, I lose my smallholding and animals and will have to give up my dream part time job that I have taken up in the last few years too, so essentially I lose my entire life as it is currently.

I rang DH from the B&B to discuss the issues. He said "all you do is criticize me, I'm a victim" and hung up. He didn't want to discuss the issues because he can't summarize or express his feelings. He says he can't change and I am persecuting him to do things he can't do. He then said by the way if I was moving out then he'd sell our home and small holding because he wasn't interested in it anyway he only bought it for me (first I heard about that, he was the one that insisted we buy it when I wanted to stay in the city !). I went back briefly to our home to collect clothes etc and he was just lying flat on the sofa staring into space, washing left in the machine overnight, last night's dinner still on the table untouched, curtains not drawn, animals not fed, plants not watered, post not opened etc.

AIBU to leave and break up the family and sell our family home and smallholding and rehome the animals ? Or am I overreacting and should I accept he can't change, stop asking him to and just suck it up for the sake of the family ? DH is not a bad person, we have a lot in common with our joint kids, life and animals. He worked hard to support us all, he's never been unfaithful or had addictions or been abusive (contrast I've been a drunk and screaming harridan more than once when pushed beyond human limits by rigid and goading ND family members). I am also nearly 60 and have let myself go with all the stress. Dating now fills me with horror, what are my chances anyway and my friends are having horror stories on Bumble.... I would also have to go back to full time work at 60 to support myself and the children would be hostile to a new partner as they feel responsible for their victim dad. But he is not my husband or lover and he's more friends with the kids than a father to them. He is a professional victim and he has no capacity for a marriage or partnership with me. I would be happy to live alone but I keep having the sad thought that I don't want to get to the end of my life without having experienced a true and loving partnership.

If I could find a way to stay with DH I would but I have tried to compromise a million times. I don't want to have an affair either but it seems that if I stay I would have to completely deny my own needs for love, support, intimacy, boundaries, joint parenting, joy etc and life is too short for that. Advice please.

Are you that desperate? I mean seriously!

I think there is every chance op will feel more lonely in old age, not less and completely on her own if she is ill. He is not known for his compassion or empathy is he!

That's what paid carers/personal assistants are for @SixtySomething . Adult children too. Except for the abusive one (unless he gets his shit together)

OP I wonder how you're feeling today after getting this off your chest and having some time away from it? Some relief, I hope.

It strikes me that this has escalated since he stopped work. He has become somewhat under your feet and this has got you agitated and it is a major change in routine and possibly also, your own expectations.

I read this part with interest and it hasn't been commented on that much " DH is not a bad person, we have a lot in common with our joint kids, life and animals. He worked hard to support us all, he's never been unfaithful or had addictions or been abusive (contrast I've been a drunk and screaming harridan more than once when pushed beyond human limits by rigid and goading ND family members)"

So you know and state that your behavior has been abusive. I am not pointing this out to blame you, because I have done the same (exact same) thing to my DH out of frustration and despair. It still counts as abusive though, and I wonder if this continues, or if you've put a stop to it.

Personally I have found that changing my expectations has helped a lot in terms of managing my marriage.

I wonder if you could try individual therapy, not couples therapy, for a while to find your way through this, however that ultimately looks?

Please come back and update.

No, I'm not saying anything as ridiculous as that.

I'm not recommending she should do anything in particular. I'm suggesting she thinks about the situation from all angles. That really is quite different, you know.

BTW, she specifically says he is not abusive :

'He worked hard to support us all, he's never been unfaithful or had addictions or been abusive '

Maybe in your world adult children stay local forever and have heaps of time to help elderly parents, but not likely in the world I know. Elderly married couples can help each other.

Likewise, perhaps in your world, paid helpers and carers can be summoned at will. In mine, care of the elderly is in crisis.

Unnecessarily harsh response

Quite possibly.

Please try to understand, I'm merely suggesting that OP should carefully think about every angle of the situation, that life changes a lot in one's sixties and there are many very lonely old folk living alone...

This isn't really rocket science.

@SixtySomething

also i dont know why you’re acting like Op is old? Like fifties and sixties and even seventies are not old these days. Certainly not old enough to be past wanting an emotionally and sexually fulfilling relationship with another person!

Is it the truth that feels uncomfortable? Or do you not think it’s true?

It’s very easy to look outwards and blame the other person, but he’ll have a perspective too. All the while she was spending 6 hours a day at home when the kids were at school, living life by her own watch, her husband was working with a long commute. She wanted romantic couple getaways but had zero finances to contribute, meanwhile he’s shattered, potentially from masking at work as well as working all the hours.

Look, in a relationship of 20+ years, no one is ever completely innocent or guilty. OP didn’t reflect at all on her own actions, just her husbands.

I don't think she's old.

I'm saying that health problems typically start to develop in the sixties, that it would be wise to consider the future.

It's lovely to dream of life with a true soul mate, but the harsh reality is that this may never happen. As OP says, she and her DH share a lot of things ....

@SixtySomething

surely she could be happier on her own than with a man who cannot meet at all her emotional and sexual needs? A man who stands by and watches his son shove her? To encourage it actually is what he did. Its unforgivable. I wouldn’t wanna be in same room as him never mind married to him if I were OP. Do you really think it’s worth tolerating that and sacrificing your self respect cos he may take her to hospital appointments in the future if/when she needs it…

Also while ever she is stuck in this loveless marriage she is not going to get the opportunity to met a “soul mate” is she…she’ll be stuck

The only advise I would give you, based on your concerns, is don't let the thought of potential future relationships sway your decision

By the time you come out the other end that will be the last thing on your mind believe me.
Good luck whatever you decide to do

Yes I agree that she needs to leave.
However I do feel there has been a lack of understanding towards autism shown on this thread.
Lots of people say ignore the autism but the main problem until now is lack of connection, which is caused by autism. This causes the OP to shout at DH which makes him feel like a victim. DH and psychologist have told OP that DH will not change in this area. But she tries to change him and shouts at him that he hasn't changed. DH feels like a victim.

However I think DH by involving the children and allowing a child to speak to the OP like that and to shove her is awful.

Sounds like he is quite depressed also.

it doesn’t matter whether the OP recognises his behaviour as abusive or not; it is still abusive. It is very common for those who are subjected to abuse to not fully recognise this at first, it often takes time and perspective to see things clearly. The OP’s husband has been weaponising their children, and controlling the narrative by demanding information is kept private. By positioning himself as a perpetual victim, it puts the OP as the persecutor which is toxic and highly manipulative. Stating that he doesn’t care about the OP when their son is being physically aggressive to her, is blatantly abusive. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not educated enough about emotional abuse, narcissistic abuse and gaslighting. Being neurodivergent does not excuse his behaviour and is insulting to those with this diagnosis.

Also, the assertion that the OP is also abusive so they are both ‘as bad as each other’ is incorrect. What the OP is describing is known as reactive abuse; when someone has been subjected to abuse for years and they are desperate for it to stop, and can start to exhibit abusive behaviour in response (e.g shouting, name calling). Narcissistic abusers will goad and deliberately try to get this response as it becomes a perfect opportunity to position themselves as a victim and deny culpability for their own behaviour, blaming and projecting onto the actual victim. This is a particularly toxic and manipulative abuse tactic, especially when children are involved. Often people will feel a lot of shame in having responded to abuse with abuse, but any mental health professional will tell you that the shame is wrongly placed here.

Hopefully the OP will take on board the majority of the good advice here, and leave her husband. This relationship cannot be salvaged, and it will cost the OP’s sanity to continue existing in such a dysfunctional dynamic.

@AnxiousRose

why does it sound like he is depressed?

@LuckySantangelo35

Because this:

Now his daily routine is to get up feeling anxious and then just drift around for the rest of the day, no plan, no goals, achieving not much, never gets together with friends, sometimes hangs with his family (many of them have the same issues as him) low functioning, wears same clothes for days.

And this:

I went back briefly to our home to collect clothes etc and he was just lying flat on the sofa staring into space, washing left in the machine overnight, last night's dinner still on the table untouched, curtains not drawn, animals not fed, plants not watered, post not opened etc.

Same in my world but I won't tolerate abuse from a man. I think its interesting how normally people on MN are like LTB, but because of this guy's age she has to suck it up.

But he does let one of the children treat the OP like dirt. He doesn't discipline the child or throw them out or ask social services to put them in a foster care. He is enabling abuse from the son. A good caring husband would have not let this boy rule the roost like this .

That's fine for you and I'm glad for you that things were helped by changing expectations but no one should be abused in their own home. The husband is enabling an abuser to continue living with them and hurting his wife even though he could be made to live elsewhere.

He doesn't have any excuse for his inability to discipline his child, and make sure his wife has a safe home.

Why such low expectations of men? If we regard ourselves highly why do we put up with accepting and coddling these men. Also having such low expectations of someone with autism is not helpful to the ND community. This coddling and infantalising helps nobody.

This is only one side of the story here. However, based on what you have said he is emotionally abusive and uses your children to abuse you too.
Stating that he is a vicitm isn't a ND trait, unless it is true. A trait of ND is brutal and literal honesty, not making up stories of being a victim and going and manipulating your own children to turn on their mother.
Leave him and go and enjoy your life.

Bloody hell. Suggesting she should continue to live with a ‘professional victim’ who makes the op miserable in case she becomes infirm in later life??? If he is nasty to her now, how on earth will he suddenly become MrNiceguy/carer/driver all of a sudden? She would be at his mercy - a malfunctioning household appliance. And why would she want to continue being miserably unhappy and a scapegoat in her own home - just in case she gets ill? When she could be living a happy life - and statistically less likely to become ill as a single woman!
What a truly appalling suggestion.

I’m sorry you are in this place. Do two things if funds permit: 1. Consult a good, specialist family law solicitor (some will provide an initial 30 minutes advice at no charge), and 2. Start seeing a therapist. Wishing you all the best X

@MyNextSteps , if it's ok, could you say if you're in the UK? It does seem odd that your husband got a diagnosis of High Functioning Autism Level 1 (Asperger's) this year when that isn't a current diagnosis. Was this given by a therapist? It is also odd that therapist advised you to leave. I def think you need to break free from the marriage one way or another, it just seems odd the therapist was so explicit when normally they are not supposed to do that. If you go to a therapist again, which I would recommend, make sure they are reputable & properly qualified.

Second,financial issues. Xenia has some good pointers. Ignore the posters asking why you didn't work. If you wanted to be a SAHM, that is a valid option, & your DH supporting you in that is not an excuse for abuse.

I can't believe he doesn't want your kids diagnosed! I know a lot of ND parents who've pushed hard for their kids to be diagnosed (often finding out that they too are ND in the process.) It's not just a NT trait to want to help your kids and get them the help and support they need. He's just being a shitty person. 🤬