Neurodivergent husband has brought me to my knees, am I unreasonable to leave him ?

[MyNextSteps]

This is my first Mumsnet post so I'm sorry but this will be a long rant. But I have really lost my way and would appreciate everyone's thoughts.

My husband and I are in our late 50s and have been married for 25 years and have 5 kids who are late teens/20s.

The marriage has always had something "not quite right", something missing which I couldn't explain. DH didn't have many girlfriends I thought he was just shy. Once married I always felt he was avoidant, pulling away, preoccupied, unavailable, never initiated sex. If I ever tried to raise it, even gently, he was irritable and defensive, saying my "constant criticism and oversensitivity" was the problem and then he'd try to run away or hang up the phone or get busy or fall asleep or get one of the kids to interrupt us to shut me down. He is also very interested in facts not feelings and tends to disconnect from conversations once he's satisfied himself of the facts.

Eventually I dragged DH to therapy wondering if he was a covert narcissist but this year he's been diagnosed with High Functioning Autism Level 1 (Aspergers) which explains everything. I feel I'm in a nightmare as our story started out as a fairytale with our beautiful kids but now I'm acceptingw nothing will change with DH.

We both had good careers but I stayed at home to raise the kids. He worked hard to provide for us all but had a long commute. We moved out to the coast and bought a rambling old house with land, did it up and we have a small holding with animals. DH seemed to avoid intimacy but I didn't question it as he was tired and working so hard and so was I. He never took me out in the evening or hired a babysitter or took me away for a few nights. We only ever went away with the kids but I was so in the tunnel of parenthood and we didn't have much money to spare so I didn't really stop to question it.

Gradually the kids grew up and then DH stopped work and I thought we would spend more time together but I gradually realized he wasn't interested. Once he stopped work and was around 24/7 and the kids were grown up, it dawned on me that he was just making excuses to avoid time with me and avoid intimacy.

We did years of marriage therapy but he could neither express his feelings at all (alexithymia) or understand mine. He just cannot hear me - all he can hear is that he's being criticized and then he becomes a professional victim. I have given him a million chances to sort himself out, so many times we have fought and he always comes back, says sorry but nothing changes. Our therapist said he wouldn't change and to leave him as he wasn't able or interested in meeting my needs.

Some of the worst family fights have been when I have been angry with DH and then he goes to the kids and portrays himself as a victim and me as the perpetrator. Then the kids (who are angry he's so weak) stand up for him. So I'm then fighting my own kids and he sits there with his head in his hands not speaking while it all kicks off between me and the kids.

So there have been times when the kids have seen me as the aggressive bad cop whilst he is good cop being their friend as he does everything for them, drives them around, gives them money and never sets rules or boundaries. Mum "wears the trousers" and keeps it all fair and accountable. Although the kids hate on me for being bad cop I notice when life gets tricky they all come running to me for guidance because I'm actually the only real parent.

Every time the whole family gets together which is now only about twice a year I work hard to cook food and make it nice but either my husband or one of the ND kids has a meltdown or shutdown which ruins the occasion and the family doesn't speak for months, I am beginning to dread get togethers.

Now his daily routine is to get up feeling anxious and then just drift around for the rest of the day, no plan, no goals, achieving not much, never gets together with friends, sometimes hangs with his family (many of them have the same issues as him) low functioning, wears same clothes for days. If I ask him to do something he'll do it eventually but then says I'm bossy and that he feels "controlled" and then makes sure the kids know it.

Some of our kids have various neurodiverse traits/issues and DH and I clashed seriously about how to raise them because as a ND himself his first instinct was to deny their problems and help them to mask whereas I as an NT wanted to get them diagnosed and get them help. DH also insisted that we don't mention anyone's diagnosis in the family (shame) so when several of the kids have huge meltdowns we are not allowed to address it with the other kids and I can see that they feel guilty and responsible when it's not their fault.

Things have come to a head in the last few months. DH was being assessed for suspected cancer. He wasn't able to process many feelings about that beyond being sure he didn't want the kids to know. I did all the worrying and supporting whilst he looked blank and numb all through Christmas. Finally this week he got the "all clear", he did express some relief but I was hugely emotional after the hospital.

The same night one of our kids rang up and shouted at me because she'd given a message to DH for me to do something but he hadn't passed it on to me so I hadn't done what she needed me to do. I was still emotional from the hospital so after she'd put the phone down I was angry with DH that he hadn't passed on the message. He denied this so we started to argue. DH then portrayed himself a a victim in front of one of our sons who got aggressive with me and goaded and shoved me (he's 6 ft) and started being verbally abusive and telling me I was crazy (he didn't know about the hospital or cancer scare at all so didn't know why I was so emotional). I said to DH "tell him to stop" but DH said "why should he stop abusing you when you abuse me ?" (professional victim).

In that moment after 25 years something snapped in me. I did something I've never done before. I calmly put together a small bag of clothes and walked out. I drove off and checked into a local B&B where I am sitting now with no idea about my next move.

DH has brought me to my knees. It's not what he does, it's what he DOESN'T do, he's just absent from our marriage. He doesn't want me to leave but he doesn't want to have a relationship with me either. He just wants a housekeeper/secretary/organizer/mother not a wife. I want to leave him but then I break up the family, we lose our lovely home and I get blamed for that by him and the kids, I lose my smallholding and animals and will have to give up my dream part time job that I have taken up in the last few years too, so essentially I lose my entire life as it is currently.

I rang DH from the B&B to discuss the issues. He said "all you do is criticize me, I'm a victim" and hung up. He didn't want to discuss the issues because he can't summarize or express his feelings. He says he can't change and I am persecuting him to do things he can't do. He then said by the way if I was moving out then he'd sell our home and small holding because he wasn't interested in it anyway he only bought it for me (first I heard about that, he was the one that insisted we buy it when I wanted to stay in the city !). I went back briefly to our home to collect clothes etc and he was just lying flat on the sofa staring into space, washing left in the machine overnight, last night's dinner still on the table untouched, curtains not drawn, animals not fed, plants not watered, post not opened etc.

AIBU to leave and break up the family and sell our family home and smallholding and rehome the animals ? Or am I overreacting and should I accept he can't change, stop asking him to and just suck it up for the sake of the family ? DH is not a bad person, we have a lot in common with our joint kids, life and animals. He worked hard to support us all, he's never been unfaithful or had addictions or been abusive (contrast I've been a drunk and screaming harridan more than once when pushed beyond human limits by rigid and goading ND family members). I am also nearly 60 and have let myself go with all the stress. Dating now fills me with horror, what are my chances anyway and my friends are having horror stories on Bumble.... I would also have to go back to full time work at 60 to support myself and the children would be hostile to a new partner as they feel responsible for their victim dad. But he is not my husband or lover and he's more friends with the kids than a father to them. He is a professional victim and he has no capacity for a marriage or partnership with me. I would be happy to live alone but I keep having the sad thought that I don't want to get to the end of my life without having experienced a true and loving partnership.

If I could find a way to stay with DH I would but I have tried to compromise a million times. I don't want to have an affair either but it seems that if I stay I would have to completely deny my own needs for love, support, intimacy, boundaries, joint parenting, joy etc and life is too short for that. Advice please.

Please don’t make glib statements. I’m sure you mean well but if you hang out on the NT/ND partner threads the chances of any of our dear partners showing one iota of interest in our illnesses is highly highly unlikely.

The most usual response from an autistic husband is to barely respond after hearing life changing medical news.

The further they can get away from any support whatsoever, even verbal or emotional support is the most common response.

My DH’s response to any illnesses I’ve ever had is “when will you be better?” Or completely ignoring me. He buggers off and wants nothing to do with me. He sees me as weak.

Yes, but that bears no relationship to what I actually said!

OP you need a lot of therapy. You are damaged by what has gone on. Youve become embroiled in rows you should not have done. The family is broken. Your DH is being abusive.

Your children all need to know about his diagnoses. They judge you in the absence of this information and what he is doing is not fair.

He also has a medical duty of care in my opinion to inform all your children about both the cancer and autism because they can both be hereditary and he is withholding information that may be critical to their wellbeing now and in the future.

It’s time to come clean.

The house and animals are worth nothing if you are miserable and sad and angry.

You need a good two years to reinstate your boundaries.

Personally I would not threaten my own son with the police. This is not the time for escalation. There has been far too much of that and it leads nowhere but to more shouting.

You need to separate and live in separate places. The children need to be informed. The house needs to be sold and the animals found a secure and loving solution.

Your children need to understand your shouting but more than anyone, you need to first.

You’ve not had your needs met for many years and you’re deregulated as a result. Grieve. Heal. Return stronger and wiser and remain loving as much as you can through all of it.

This is wonderful to hear about your Mum, and important for OP to know the possibilities for a fuller, happier life. I'll be 44 in June and am moving from South Africa to the UK (British grandmother). I have a rich and full life here with my hiking group, book club, nice job, etc, and am anxious about leaving it all to start afresh. I have a few friends in the UK but they are spread out across the country, and I don't know where to go where people are friendliest and I'll have the best chance at making friends. If you could give me a rough idea of the area your Mum moved to I'd be most grateful, but if you'd prefer not to, I completely understand. I can't even decide between north, south, or midlands! And within those areas there will be much variation I'm sure!

My post is no more hypothetical than anyone else's.
I'm simply aware that the only person who really knows her situation is OP. Hence, I find it strange that many people seem absolutely certain of the facts and what is right in the situation, on the basis of a single post.
I say the children 'may' mature, which means 'it would be amazing if they didn't grow up in the next few years.'
She has said the children come to her in times of difficulty in preference to her husband, so they clearly trust her. I think it would be so sad to take an action which permenantly undermines that trust.
I know this is not the popular view, but it's important to look at the popular and the unpopular aspects of the situation.
As a woman in her late 50s her situation is very different from someone three or four decades younger.
Co-dependency is 'likely' to have developed.

OP, I have little to add to the chorus of voices telling you to leave - they are right. What I will say is that two of my DC are ND. But they are not selfish assholes with professional victim tendencies, they are loving and caring functional people who have worked incredibly hard to be who they are. Being ND isn't an excuse. Not for your husband, not for your DC.

Or she could just get a taxi. The advantage of the taxi solution for lifts to hospital is that she wouldn't have to put up with abuse for the 99.9% of time she wouldn't need to be driven somewhere.

Honestly, sometimes I wonder how many parallel universes exist.

This is not a 'glib' statement.

I nowhere said he would show any overt interest in OP.

She has written that he ferries the five children to their activities. I simply pointed out that he might do the same for her, if she were unwell in the future. People who cannot get about struggle immensely if they have no-one to give them lifts. In this way he would be an important resource for her.

Please read what I actually wrote.

This would be a reasonable point without the unnecessary final sentence.
I think most people would prefer a relative to a taxi. I'm sure DH would be happy to sit in the car park for a couple of hours waiting for OP to finish her appointment. Taxi perhaps not so easy.
Not everyone can afford to take a taxi whenever they need to go somewhere.
In rural areas or even very busy cities it may be difficult or impossible to find a reliable taxi service.

There's not a right way to do this or a wrong way.

Get some therapy from a therapist who specialises in neuro diversity. It might help you understand your life a bit better.

When all is said and done he's not going to change. He can't. He'll try but only if he sees this as necessary and it will only last until he can't do it. Which might be a few weeks or even months. He'll resent the sudden changes even if to you they are decades in the making.

So you are left with the life you have now which isn't fulfilling.

Or a life you have with changes you can make for you. Go back but fill your life with your wants and needs.

Or you leave and start over.

Or if you really love this man it might be possible to live in close proximity but separately.
Maybe with structured meals out together and activities regularly.

No easy choices. Whatever you do there will be fall out from the children. But I understand the burn out. There is a life beyond an autistic partner. A very different life. This isn't a typical situation and there is more than one way to resolve this.

Best wishes.

I’m hearing a lot of blame and not a lot of reflection - from both of you. He’s funded the past 3 decades for all of you. I have three kids and I can’t understand how you needed to be at home whilst the kids were at school? Why didn’t you contribute financially?

You both sound unhappy and, quite frankly, like you hate one another. Splitting would be for the best. You’ll lose the house and free holding but at least you’ll retain half of the value even though you didn’t earn it, that’s a big win surely.

You are a being abused. Get out. Some percentage of this behaviour may be his disability, but you don't sign up to be abused in a marriage. Even supposing that someone could assess your DH and 100% guarantee that all his behaviour was motivated by his disability and he couldn't control ANY of it, you don't have to stay with him. Signing up to be with someone in sickness and in health, doesn't mean you have to take years of abuse.

I have worked with a lot of ND people, most of whom are kind and caring, even though they may not express it the way NT people would. The victim role is a choice, not an inevitable part of ND, and since he is enjoying it so much, I dont see a way to improve this. FWIW, my understanding of ND is that you need a sound theory of mind to be manipulative, and people who are ND struggle with this.

Whether or not he’s manipulative is a moot point.

The effect on OP is still the same. Her DS shoved her and DH did nothing.

This is what I see time and time again around autistic behaviour. Was it deliberate or not? And so much time spent on this question.

However whether or not it was, the affect is still devastating for the NT partner and our needs are nearly always usurped because we don’t have a disability and therefore our pain literally is ignored.

Not sure what you took from my post, but I certainly was not suggesting anyone ignore the pain their partners behaviour causes them. I actually agree, it does not matter why someone does something if it is hurting or harming you, emotionally, physically or psychologically.

My point was that ND people in general are not manipulative or not good at manipulation. The fact he is raises a query for me about his diagnosis - a lot of personality disorders can be misread as ND if the assessor is not very skilled.

But regardless of his diagnosis, I dont see this situation improving and feel OP needs to protect herself.

Follow your own advice before it completely destroys you. Your hopefully ex-DH is manipulative and an awful being, there's no excuse with diagnosis for that.
Stay strong and start your life anew. You can do it.

I would be absolutely beyond done.

Can you imagine spending the rest of your life absolutely miserable and lonely, even though you're 'married'? Because you will be if you stay with him, miserable and alone. Oh, and blamed for anything that goes wrong or if he's not happy.

RUn, run, run.

Sell the house and make a life for yourself, a real one, with people and groups/friends that actually give a shit about you. He certainly doesn't.

I'd also tell your DCs a few home truths about his diagnosis, his behaviour and his treatment of you, and that as the parent who actually raised the lot of them, how you feel they've really let you down by backing him every time he behaves badly and cries 'I'm a victim!' when he most certainly is not.

Get solo counselling, too, if you can.

I would be telling abusive son to find another place to live. Give him an ultimatum. If he too young for that then drive him to social services and say you can't cope. Leave him there. Let them sort him out.

Hospital transport is far from perfect but at least you aren't required to live in a toxic relationship with the drivers in order to access it.

OP I hope you've had some sleep and chance to process this.

How are you today @MyNextSteps .
are you able to take a break and some time to have a good think.
hope you’re ok. Been thinking of you x

He can't understand that abusing someone/encouraging someone else to do so is wrong?

He doesn't sound safe to be around!

I only read the first post. In divorce law in England it does not matter who is in the wrong. My view is that you should move back in to save money on the B&B and to keep your "possession" of the house. Then agree with him to put the house on the market right away (I am not sure if any of the 5 adult children still live at home or not) (I have 5 and am divorced and I work full time).

It sounds like you could not afford to buy him out of the house and his pension probably means he could not afford to buy you out as he no longer works (I bought my husband out as I earned more) and he wants to sell the house. However you both need to speak to a solicitor for some initial advice even if you might choose to remain in the house but split it which is one option even if just an informal split of it

I think you want someone else and he does not. A new man is not going to want you living with your ex. I doubt you would get all the house in a divorce unless he has vast amounts of savings too which is unlikely. Even if you go for a pension sharing order or give up rights to his pension I doubt you would get 100% of a mortgage free huge house with small holding. I suppose one of you could build a home if permission can be obtained on the land so you live close and on the same plot but that is not likely to work too well.

Make sure you konw all about all finances; have a copy of marriage cert; I would pay £3 for a land registry search on the house too to give to your solicitor.

Try to forget all the emotional side as it is not relevant to the divorce. Nor does it matter who the children support.

Good luck. Probably neither you nor he is right and it doesn't matter who is. All the law cares about is facts - like money, assets, debts, savings etc.

@SixtySomething

she wants a HUSBAND, not a chauffeur hun!

Yes, she does have a husband, even if he's not the right fit.

The point I'm making is that life changes pretty quickly once you're in your sixties. Her choice, of course, but she might be better off in her declining years with someone to carry the shopping and run her around town, than with no-one at all, which is the likely alternative.
I'm making the obvious point that OP's DH may perform better in this role than as Dad of five.
She would do well to think about this. That's all.
Is there a problem with the thought?

So you are suggesting op stays in an abusive marriage that makes her desperately sad, so sad she has to drink herself drunk to get through it whilst he cheers on his 6ft dons go physically assault her on off chance she can’t work out how to have her shopping delivered?