Neurodivergent husband has brought me to my knees, am I unreasonable to leave him ?

[MyNextSteps]

This is my first Mumsnet post so I'm sorry but this will be a long rant. But I have really lost my way and would appreciate everyone's thoughts.

My husband and I are in our late 50s and have been married for 25 years and have 5 kids who are late teens/20s.

The marriage has always had something "not quite right", something missing which I couldn't explain. DH didn't have many girlfriends I thought he was just shy. Once married I always felt he was avoidant, pulling away, preoccupied, unavailable, never initiated sex. If I ever tried to raise it, even gently, he was irritable and defensive, saying my "constant criticism and oversensitivity" was the problem and then he'd try to run away or hang up the phone or get busy or fall asleep or get one of the kids to interrupt us to shut me down. He is also very interested in facts not feelings and tends to disconnect from conversations once he's satisfied himself of the facts.

Eventually I dragged DH to therapy wondering if he was a covert narcissist but this year he's been diagnosed with High Functioning Autism Level 1 (Aspergers) which explains everything. I feel I'm in a nightmare as our story started out as a fairytale with our beautiful kids but now I'm acceptingw nothing will change with DH.

We both had good careers but I stayed at home to raise the kids. He worked hard to provide for us all but had a long commute. We moved out to the coast and bought a rambling old house with land, did it up and we have a small holding with animals. DH seemed to avoid intimacy but I didn't question it as he was tired and working so hard and so was I. He never took me out in the evening or hired a babysitter or took me away for a few nights. We only ever went away with the kids but I was so in the tunnel of parenthood and we didn't have much money to spare so I didn't really stop to question it.

Gradually the kids grew up and then DH stopped work and I thought we would spend more time together but I gradually realized he wasn't interested. Once he stopped work and was around 24/7 and the kids were grown up, it dawned on me that he was just making excuses to avoid time with me and avoid intimacy.

We did years of marriage therapy but he could neither express his feelings at all (alexithymia) or understand mine. He just cannot hear me - all he can hear is that he's being criticized and then he becomes a professional victim. I have given him a million chances to sort himself out, so many times we have fought and he always comes back, says sorry but nothing changes. Our therapist said he wouldn't change and to leave him as he wasn't able or interested in meeting my needs.

Some of the worst family fights have been when I have been angry with DH and then he goes to the kids and portrays himself as a victim and me as the perpetrator. Then the kids (who are angry he's so weak) stand up for him. So I'm then fighting my own kids and he sits there with his head in his hands not speaking while it all kicks off between me and the kids.

So there have been times when the kids have seen me as the aggressive bad cop whilst he is good cop being their friend as he does everything for them, drives them around, gives them money and never sets rules or boundaries. Mum "wears the trousers" and keeps it all fair and accountable. Although the kids hate on me for being bad cop I notice when life gets tricky they all come running to me for guidance because I'm actually the only real parent.

Every time the whole family gets together which is now only about twice a year I work hard to cook food and make it nice but either my husband or one of the ND kids has a meltdown or shutdown which ruins the occasion and the family doesn't speak for months, I am beginning to dread get togethers.

Now his daily routine is to get up feeling anxious and then just drift around for the rest of the day, no plan, no goals, achieving not much, never gets together with friends, sometimes hangs with his family (many of them have the same issues as him) low functioning, wears same clothes for days. If I ask him to do something he'll do it eventually but then says I'm bossy and that he feels "controlled" and then makes sure the kids know it.

Some of our kids have various neurodiverse traits/issues and DH and I clashed seriously about how to raise them because as a ND himself his first instinct was to deny their problems and help them to mask whereas I as an NT wanted to get them diagnosed and get them help. DH also insisted that we don't mention anyone's diagnosis in the family (shame) so when several of the kids have huge meltdowns we are not allowed to address it with the other kids and I can see that they feel guilty and responsible when it's not their fault.

Things have come to a head in the last few months. DH was being assessed for suspected cancer. He wasn't able to process many feelings about that beyond being sure he didn't want the kids to know. I did all the worrying and supporting whilst he looked blank and numb all through Christmas. Finally this week he got the "all clear", he did express some relief but I was hugely emotional after the hospital.

The same night one of our kids rang up and shouted at me because she'd given a message to DH for me to do something but he hadn't passed it on to me so I hadn't done what she needed me to do. I was still emotional from the hospital so after she'd put the phone down I was angry with DH that he hadn't passed on the message. He denied this so we started to argue. DH then portrayed himself a a victim in front of one of our sons who got aggressive with me and goaded and shoved me (he's 6 ft) and started being verbally abusive and telling me I was crazy (he didn't know about the hospital or cancer scare at all so didn't know why I was so emotional). I said to DH "tell him to stop" but DH said "why should he stop abusing you when you abuse me ?" (professional victim).

In that moment after 25 years something snapped in me. I did something I've never done before. I calmly put together a small bag of clothes and walked out. I drove off and checked into a local B&B where I am sitting now with no idea about my next move.

DH has brought me to my knees. It's not what he does, it's what he DOESN'T do, he's just absent from our marriage. He doesn't want me to leave but he doesn't want to have a relationship with me either. He just wants a housekeeper/secretary/organizer/mother not a wife. I want to leave him but then I break up the family, we lose our lovely home and I get blamed for that by him and the kids, I lose my smallholding and animals and will have to give up my dream part time job that I have taken up in the last few years too, so essentially I lose my entire life as it is currently.

I rang DH from the B&B to discuss the issues. He said "all you do is criticize me, I'm a victim" and hung up. He didn't want to discuss the issues because he can't summarize or express his feelings. He says he can't change and I am persecuting him to do things he can't do. He then said by the way if I was moving out then he'd sell our home and small holding because he wasn't interested in it anyway he only bought it for me (first I heard about that, he was the one that insisted we buy it when I wanted to stay in the city !). I went back briefly to our home to collect clothes etc and he was just lying flat on the sofa staring into space, washing left in the machine overnight, last night's dinner still on the table untouched, curtains not drawn, animals not fed, plants not watered, post not opened etc.

AIBU to leave and break up the family and sell our family home and smallholding and rehome the animals ? Or am I overreacting and should I accept he can't change, stop asking him to and just suck it up for the sake of the family ? DH is not a bad person, we have a lot in common with our joint kids, life and animals. He worked hard to support us all, he's never been unfaithful or had addictions or been abusive (contrast I've been a drunk and screaming harridan more than once when pushed beyond human limits by rigid and goading ND family members). I am also nearly 60 and have let myself go with all the stress. Dating now fills me with horror, what are my chances anyway and my friends are having horror stories on Bumble.... I would also have to go back to full time work at 60 to support myself and the children would be hostile to a new partner as they feel responsible for their victim dad. But he is not my husband or lover and he's more friends with the kids than a father to them. He is a professional victim and he has no capacity for a marriage or partnership with me. I would be happy to live alone but I keep having the sad thought that I don't want to get to the end of my life without having experienced a true and loving partnership.

If I could find a way to stay with DH I would but I have tried to compromise a million times. I don't want to have an affair either but it seems that if I stay I would have to completely deny my own needs for love, support, intimacy, boundaries, joint parenting, joy etc and life is too short for that. Advice please.

I read your posts and thought I would share some thoughts

• Maybe you need some boundaries with your children. As a start your relationship with your husband you don’t discuss it with them. You can explain that to them when they try. It’s not their job to be involved in your marriage troubles
• Another boundary: messages need to come directly to you. Not through your husband. You get the blame from both DH and DC when the message isnt passed on. So from now on it must come directly to you. I would suggest verbally not in a text. So you can ask questions etc

Im not sure you and your DH can solve this together without outside help. There is too much resentment and activated nervous systems from the fighting Both of you will have ineffective ways of communicating. It’s unlikely to be just DH. To resolve this you need a really good therapist you works for the relationship. Your previous person doesn’t sound like they were hugely helpful. Try to find someone who works with the nervous states of both spouses and works for the relationship. Helps you to communicate. Whether you stay together or not such a person could help you work out a way forward. Maybe you need a break of a month or so from being at home. Some space. Maybe that will help.

I wouldn't do that - he doesn't pull his weight so there's no benefit to the OP. She'll just end up living in a pigsty being called cruel for not feeding him and clearing up after him.

Also to add - you mentioned that he likes it when you are really angry. This rings bells with me. Possibly he likes it becuse it is proof of your feelings for him. Ppl who struggle to identify their emotions or had emotionally neglected childhoods can react that way.
Does he love you? Do you love him. It seems to me he worked hard for a long time to provide a home for you and the children. That shows love.
I hope you manage to figure it out. We are all flawed and broken to some extent and we all want connection.
It’s definitely true that at 60 the pool of candidates out there will not be good. There will be many men looking out for someone to just take care of them.

@SixtySomething

you may be happy to put up with all manner of shit for a “solid home” but lots of women are rightly not prepared to. Hth.

ND people can improve their behaviour. We all can! Any diagnosis should not just be an excuse for being a prick!

This is the new pushback, isn’t it. ND people using the term NT as a form of abuse.

Good grief! It’s a spectrum, we all have our foibles. Whatever you are, you can’t just treat the other person with abuse.

This sounds awful.
Ironically my husband could be very 'cold' and remote after a warm start {and he's like this with his third wife...{I was first wife}

The loneliness one can feel with someone like this is immense.

Child/ren DO see the selfishness and remoteness.

It's FAR less lonely 'alone' {especially with children} than to be in a marriage with an emotionally remote partner.

The fact that my ex is just the same with his 3rd wife says a lot..if anything, he's got worse.

Yes, actually autism is a developmental disorder in and of itself. The rantings of over-privileged extremely high functioning people doesn’t change reality.

Also, the “systems thinking” nonsense is a myth, like all other strengths stereotypes. These stereotypes are harmful for the vast majority of autistic people, like me, who don’t meet the unreasonable standard of having a prescribed list of strengths.

Autism is a disability, not just a difference, and most people who think otherwise have autism too mild for their opinions on the condition to be relevant.

People here will say it’s nothing to do with autism and that he’s just a “shitty” person but this is what a ND/NT marriage looks like. The avoidance, defensiveness, victimhood, lack of connection, zero emotional support or reciprocity, minimal surface level conversation, zero intimacy, poor parenting with no boundaries and a type of loneliness only those who are on the receiving on of a ND husband can understand

This is not true at all. Being ND does not make you an abusive arsehole.

I have massive struggles with my autism, ADHD, anxiety and depression. Absolutely none of that describes my relationship. Becuase I'm not an arsehole and I give a shit about the person I love.

You're describing a relationship with an abusive adult toddler.

It may not be possible but I'd give it a try. But that's becuase personally, the lifestyle of the property and animals and part time work would be very hard to give up. I would try treating the house as a houseshare with a lazy flatmate. Even like keeping your nice cooking stuff in your room. I'd take a crack at it, absolutely not saying it would be guaranteed to be successful.

Try reading what I wrote again and then show me where i said he's been violent.

I think for the minute if I was you would be to think of a long plan. You can't just leave, there's too many responsibilities to think about. Animals need sorting and he obviously will neglect them.

Go back, be low demand. Start organising everything so you can split up without too many complications. Which means the animals first. Tell him you heard he's not interested when on the phone so it's time to free up some money from it and take that stress away from him. Start to squirrel. If you're low demand he'll probably relax enough to not notice what you're doing. Stay out of his way as much as possible.

The kids can make their choice but they'll see the score fast enough.

It’s definitely true that at 60 the pool of candidates out there will not be good. There will be many men looking out for someone to just take care of them.

Hell, after 50 the only partner likely worth having is a cat or dog!

Yes you didn't say that. Sorry I read it too quickly.

I know you say about how the house and set up would make it difficult to leave etc but even on top of your problems I think you’re both just such different people, as others say not all of the things you’re seeing are to do with autism, some are abusive but some are simply compatibility/ men things- it might just be very difficult to see. The other thing is thinking about if you ever got on/clicked/ if you love each other. He might be ‘attacking’ because he feels attacked, have you both had any sensible talks at all? Is he just on high alert? Hope you both figure it out (not necessarily together as a couple although maybe) you’ve built so much together

I hope you're ok

Id suggest you explain to your husband that its the end of the road, no point him being constantly criticised etc so lets go our separate ways, sell the house he doesn't want and start again.

I would tell your dc that it is best if you leave, as its making your dad so unhappy always being the victim. Tell them he wants to sell the home as he doesn't want to live on the small holding so best you sell up and go your separate ways, sell up and both live out happy lives apart.

You've made a really good go of it all - but your different people and making each other unhappy, for whatever reason its not worth staying together.

The incident with the violence towards the op by one of their adult children (an adult male at that) ..... and him encouraging it, excusing it etc. would suggest otherwise.

You've done your best your whole marriage. But it will never change. Do you want to spend the rest of your life on repeat or have the chance of a fresh start. Yes you might loose the dream small holding but you gain a life to live the way you desire.
Its a shame but dh has problems and they are drowning you now despite your absolute best efforts to stay afloat.
Could he move out not you?
At least the animals will be cared for... I hope it will work out well for you

I think you're everybody's whipping boy and scape-goat, op

Time to get out.

Let your adult children deal with him if they're so fond of him.

Let them see what it's like to deal with him without a buffer and scape-goat.

You'll need help - probably professional help - to change your relationship/dynamic with your adult children. Because it cannot stand at it is.

Your son is lucky he's not been reported for assault.

I think you've made the very difficult first step so keep going one day at a time, one foot in front of the other.
It sounds like you have a really unhealthy dynamic with the kids too (due to his behaviour) so I'd take a step back there too. Let them think you've gone a bit bonkers if they want to. They'll probably work it out eventually.
You do not have to hide what you're going though, perhaps not no need to reveal his autism diagnosis but you can certainly describe the behaviours that leads to and why that's distressing to you.
In your 50's you have time still to make the life you want and deserve. Put yourself first for once(I doubt you've done much of that)

Yeah, no. Your views reflect your own experience, like the posters who are saying all autistic people are awrful in relationships. I'm sorry to hear your experience has been different than mine (and that of my child), but you DO NOT get to tell me that his experiences, or mine, do not matter. Also, the systems thinking thing? It has actually been empirically demonstrated https://rmit.wd3.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/RMIT_Careers/job/Assistant-Associate-Dean--Computer-Science-Education_JR35256-1,

Of course, all of these things are mediated by underlying IQ, supportive teachers, exposure to topics of interest early, supportive home life...etc. Missing out on many or all of those is likely to mean that strengths don't have the opportunity to develop, if they are present, and many of us ARE unlucky there.

Again, I am genuinely sorry to read that your experience is difficult. It doesn't mean mine (and many others like mine) don't exist though.

These are pretty much my thoughts I'm afraid. I know too many women ( myself included) who are paying a very heavy price for escaping with hopes of a better life, but which in reality has not in any way compensated for the years invested in an unhappy and/or abusive marriage, instead just replaced one sad and highly stressful situation with another. Think maybe constant financial worries and a different kind of loneliness which any additional health problems will only underline. Starting again on any level in late middle age can be soul destroying unless you have a very sound base from which to launch yourself. Dreams of well paying jobs, attentive new partners etc are difficult to realise, with prolongued stress not really known for its anti ageing properties either................

Whatever you decide, your son absolutely must not be allowed to physically intimidate you. It should be made crystal clear that any further disrespect or abusive behaviour will be met with the strongest possible response and not tolerated on any level. Clearly your son will pose a risk to any future partners if this goes unchecked. Perhaps family mediation/counselling would help unpack some of this and allow for each of you to speak openly with the help of the mediator to keep things civilised.

Autism is not an excuse for being an arsehole. And I’m sorry but your husband is an arsehole. He stood by and watched your child attack you because he decided you deserved it. Lying about and concealing diagnoses is really unfair.

Leave him. You’re in your 50s - you’ve a lot of life left to live. Maybe once you leave him and are no longer propping him up, your children might see him for what he is.

DH then portrayed himself a a victim in front of one of our sons who got aggressive with me and goaded and shoved me (he's 6 ft) and started being verbally abusive and telling me I was crazy

The same night one of our kids rang up and shouted at me because she'd given a message to DH for me to do something but he hadn't passed it on to me so I hadn't done what she needed me to do

I don’t think you’ve got any choice but to leave. It’s either that or you move into a different bedroom, organise separate finances and say bollocks to the lot of them. And that’s not really sustainable. But the above two comments stand out to me. Your DS needs to understand that if he so much as wags a finger at you, then you will call the police. He needs to learn that there are consequences to shoving people. What happens if he gets angry with the wrong person and they retaliate? I don’t think you’ve said whether this child is ND or not, but I think it’s largely irrelevant. He doesn’t get to shove you, either way. You are not his punching bag. If he’s going to function in a world where his mum isn’t always there to protect him, he has to learn that he can’t go round shoving anyone who makes him angry. And as for your daughter, the second she starts screaming at you for not doing her a favour, you hang up the phone.

The lack of understanding shown towards people with autism on this thread is disgraceful Rubbish. It doesn’t matter whether he or the children have autism, or anything else. Their thoughts and responses and reactions to things will be influenced by being ND, absolutely. But that doesn’t place any obligation on the OP to just accept the way she’s treated simply because her DH and/or her DC believe it to be entirely reasonable. She doesn’t have to place her happiness and wellbeing to one side. She matters too. Not more, but definitely not less.

You are so right about this. Yes, autism IS a disability (hence it's inclusion under the Equality Act).
Autism, considered as a disability, would explain the OP's DH's difficult and hurtful behaviour and why he practically may be unable to change.
Hence my pp suggesting that when the household gets smaller, as children leave home, and the demands on him are less, DH's behaviour may improve . I believe autistic individuals can be good at predictable rote tasks; hence I suggested that he might become a good chauffeur to any future hospital/ doctor appointments, which OP has already said he currently does for their children.