Neurodivergent husband has brought me to my knees, am I unreasonable to leave him ?

[MyNextSteps]

This is my first Mumsnet post so I'm sorry but this will be a long rant. But I have really lost my way and would appreciate everyone's thoughts.

My husband and I are in our late 50s and have been married for 25 years and have 5 kids who are late teens/20s.

The marriage has always had something "not quite right", something missing which I couldn't explain. DH didn't have many girlfriends I thought he was just shy. Once married I always felt he was avoidant, pulling away, preoccupied, unavailable, never initiated sex. If I ever tried to raise it, even gently, he was irritable and defensive, saying my "constant criticism and oversensitivity" was the problem and then he'd try to run away or hang up the phone or get busy or fall asleep or get one of the kids to interrupt us to shut me down. He is also very interested in facts not feelings and tends to disconnect from conversations once he's satisfied himself of the facts.

Eventually I dragged DH to therapy wondering if he was a covert narcissist but this year he's been diagnosed with High Functioning Autism Level 1 (Aspergers) which explains everything. I feel I'm in a nightmare as our story started out as a fairytale with our beautiful kids but now I'm acceptingw nothing will change with DH.

We both had good careers but I stayed at home to raise the kids. He worked hard to provide for us all but had a long commute. We moved out to the coast and bought a rambling old house with land, did it up and we have a small holding with animals. DH seemed to avoid intimacy but I didn't question it as he was tired and working so hard and so was I. He never took me out in the evening or hired a babysitter or took me away for a few nights. We only ever went away with the kids but I was so in the tunnel of parenthood and we didn't have much money to spare so I didn't really stop to question it.

Gradually the kids grew up and then DH stopped work and I thought we would spend more time together but I gradually realized he wasn't interested. Once he stopped work and was around 24/7 and the kids were grown up, it dawned on me that he was just making excuses to avoid time with me and avoid intimacy.

We did years of marriage therapy but he could neither express his feelings at all (alexithymia) or understand mine. He just cannot hear me - all he can hear is that he's being criticized and then he becomes a professional victim. I have given him a million chances to sort himself out, so many times we have fought and he always comes back, says sorry but nothing changes. Our therapist said he wouldn't change and to leave him as he wasn't able or interested in meeting my needs.

Some of the worst family fights have been when I have been angry with DH and then he goes to the kids and portrays himself as a victim and me as the perpetrator. Then the kids (who are angry he's so weak) stand up for him. So I'm then fighting my own kids and he sits there with his head in his hands not speaking while it all kicks off between me and the kids.

So there have been times when the kids have seen me as the aggressive bad cop whilst he is good cop being their friend as he does everything for them, drives them around, gives them money and never sets rules or boundaries. Mum "wears the trousers" and keeps it all fair and accountable. Although the kids hate on me for being bad cop I notice when life gets tricky they all come running to me for guidance because I'm actually the only real parent.

Every time the whole family gets together which is now only about twice a year I work hard to cook food and make it nice but either my husband or one of the ND kids has a meltdown or shutdown which ruins the occasion and the family doesn't speak for months, I am beginning to dread get togethers.

Now his daily routine is to get up feeling anxious and then just drift around for the rest of the day, no plan, no goals, achieving not much, never gets together with friends, sometimes hangs with his family (many of them have the same issues as him) low functioning, wears same clothes for days. If I ask him to do something he'll do it eventually but then says I'm bossy and that he feels "controlled" and then makes sure the kids know it.

Some of our kids have various neurodiverse traits/issues and DH and I clashed seriously about how to raise them because as a ND himself his first instinct was to deny their problems and help them to mask whereas I as an NT wanted to get them diagnosed and get them help. DH also insisted that we don't mention anyone's diagnosis in the family (shame) so when several of the kids have huge meltdowns we are not allowed to address it with the other kids and I can see that they feel guilty and responsible when it's not their fault.

Things have come to a head in the last few months. DH was being assessed for suspected cancer. He wasn't able to process many feelings about that beyond being sure he didn't want the kids to know. I did all the worrying and supporting whilst he looked blank and numb all through Christmas. Finally this week he got the "all clear", he did express some relief but I was hugely emotional after the hospital.

The same night one of our kids rang up and shouted at me because she'd given a message to DH for me to do something but he hadn't passed it on to me so I hadn't done what she needed me to do. I was still emotional from the hospital so after she'd put the phone down I was angry with DH that he hadn't passed on the message. He denied this so we started to argue. DH then portrayed himself a a victim in front of one of our sons who got aggressive with me and goaded and shoved me (he's 6 ft) and started being verbally abusive and telling me I was crazy (he didn't know about the hospital or cancer scare at all so didn't know why I was so emotional). I said to DH "tell him to stop" but DH said "why should he stop abusing you when you abuse me ?" (professional victim).

In that moment after 25 years something snapped in me. I did something I've never done before. I calmly put together a small bag of clothes and walked out. I drove off and checked into a local B&B where I am sitting now with no idea about my next move.

DH has brought me to my knees. It's not what he does, it's what he DOESN'T do, he's just absent from our marriage. He doesn't want me to leave but he doesn't want to have a relationship with me either. He just wants a housekeeper/secretary/organizer/mother not a wife. I want to leave him but then I break up the family, we lose our lovely home and I get blamed for that by him and the kids, I lose my smallholding and animals and will have to give up my dream part time job that I have taken up in the last few years too, so essentially I lose my entire life as it is currently.

I rang DH from the B&B to discuss the issues. He said "all you do is criticize me, I'm a victim" and hung up. He didn't want to discuss the issues because he can't summarize or express his feelings. He says he can't change and I am persecuting him to do things he can't do. He then said by the way if I was moving out then he'd sell our home and small holding because he wasn't interested in it anyway he only bought it for me (first I heard about that, he was the one that insisted we buy it when I wanted to stay in the city !). I went back briefly to our home to collect clothes etc and he was just lying flat on the sofa staring into space, washing left in the machine overnight, last night's dinner still on the table untouched, curtains not drawn, animals not fed, plants not watered, post not opened etc.

AIBU to leave and break up the family and sell our family home and smallholding and rehome the animals ? Or am I overreacting and should I accept he can't change, stop asking him to and just suck it up for the sake of the family ? DH is not a bad person, we have a lot in common with our joint kids, life and animals. He worked hard to support us all, he's never been unfaithful or had addictions or been abusive (contrast I've been a drunk and screaming harridan more than once when pushed beyond human limits by rigid and goading ND family members). I am also nearly 60 and have let myself go with all the stress. Dating now fills me with horror, what are my chances anyway and my friends are having horror stories on Bumble.... I would also have to go back to full time work at 60 to support myself and the children would be hostile to a new partner as they feel responsible for their victim dad. But he is not my husband or lover and he's more friends with the kids than a father to them. He is a professional victim and he has no capacity for a marriage or partnership with me. I would be happy to live alone but I keep having the sad thought that I don't want to get to the end of my life without having experienced a true and loving partnership.

If I could find a way to stay with DH I would but I have tried to compromise a million times. I don't want to have an affair either but it seems that if I stay I would have to completely deny my own needs for love, support, intimacy, boundaries, joint parenting, joy etc and life is too short for that. Advice please.

I think that leaving him is probably the only way you have a chance of salvaging respectful relationships with your adult children.

So I think to stay would actually be the opposite of doing what's best for the "family" (in terms of you having the benefits of loving/supportive relationships with extended family for years/decades to come) in that sense.

The current dynamic is poisoning your relationship with your children, at some point, irreparably.

I really feel for you in giving up the dream of the smallholding and the animals - that said, as you enter your 60s and with absolutely all of the work being on your shoulders, is maintaining that lifestyle feasible in the medium to long term?

You still have another 20+ good years, maybe more. The only way to guarantee getting to the end of your life without having experienced a true and loving partnership is to remain with your husband. I think you've done absolutely everything to establish that he will not change.

You don't have to decide that he is a bad man or that you hate him, to leave. He is what he is. But it's clear how deeply unhappy you are and will remain with him.

Yes there's the autism, but equally some men want the aesthetics of a wife and family without the realities of it. I know several men like this. They have their own special interest which they devote all their time to, while their wives are miserable and lonely and the children eventually go low or no contact.
It's no life, OP.

So much of your post resonates with me.

my exH was the same.

have since found out he’s likely autistic ( our DS is)

the behaviour you’ve had to put up with is appalling. And it is unbearable.

I couldn’t cope with my normal reactions to things being called unreasonable and abusive. I was accused of a lot of the same things you were.

I think it’s also important to remember that while he can’t help the autism, he can control his response to it. It sounds like he hasn’t dealt with it.

i think you need to state the facts to your children too. Not in an accusatory way, but factually.
and also explain the impact it has had on you.

One factor needs to be considered which hasn't been directly highlighted:
the marital home with 5 children and resident animals, including some larger ones, is the product of decades of effort and substantial financial input.
Many people would be very envious of such a solid home regardless of the pain and turbulence within.
Is OP valuing it sufficiently at present?
She won't be able to to rebuild something like that within her lifetime.
I get how ghastly things are at present. However, the situation is soon going to change of its own accord.
The kids will leave home and continue to mature, meaning they are likely to to stop victimising her.
The animals can be allowed to to gradually die off and not be replaced.
OP and DH will remain eyeball to eyeball. His ghastly behaviour may matter less.
OP may develop health issues over the next decade and it may be that her apparently uncaring husband will turn out to be an excellent chauffeur and companion on hospital visits, that her brood of children will grow up and rally round.
You really have achieved a lot together. I'm not saying 'don't leave him'.
I'm saying, please be aware of the consequences if you decide to dismantle your life's work.
Really surprised a therapist would advise someone not in immediate danger to leave their partner. Thought they were not supposed to give advice??
Just a thought..

OP, I've been there. I too ended up packing a bag and simply walking out. Dynamic within the family identical to what you describe in terms of kids reactions and perceptions - "lovely dad is bullied and criticised by mean mum".

I'm so much happier alone as is my ex with whom I am on amazingly good terms. As he's been on his own and not been "controlled" by me, he's grown and owns his shit much more now he's not having to defend himself, as it were.

BUT. One of my children has never spoken to or agreed to see me since I left and sided apparently irrevocably with their dad - despite my ex trying now to explain to the child (now mid 20s) that I am not and was not to blame for everything.

He's never going to be the man you want him to be. He is never going to understand or support you.
He's left the difficult aspects of parenting to you, by being the victim and opting out of supporting your DC, he has left you to shoulder so much responsibility. You've been left to handle all the challenging aspects of parenthood and marriage while he's sat back being a passive 'friend' rather than a parent. He wants all the difficult stuff to go away, he wants an easy life - hence you are the enemy sometimes as someone has to stand up and parent. He'll let the DC see you as 'crazy' as it suits his idea of him being the victim, all the while you're keeping the house clean, the animals fed, the admin dealt with, the curtains drawn and the post opened. Then when your needs aren't being met and you feel unsupported - you're the crazy lady again shouting at her useless lump of a husband.
It's not too late for you - stop putting others needs before your own for a while. You may find your DC respect you for it.

There are a lot of hypotheticals in there which, given what the OP has posted, don't make up for the loveless, affectionless marriage she's in being abused by her DH and at least one of her kids.

Given what you've said about your situation. I'd consider living seperate lives in the same house. Don't do anything for him. Don't expect anything from him. Treat him like a neighbour essentially. Have separate bedrooms. Just live your life the way you want and ignore him.

He is abusive btw. The way he's treating you is abusive. He's also abusive to his children the way he's emotionally manipulating them and making them attack you.

Draw some serious boundaries with your kids, don't talk to them about disagreements with your H, "disagreements between your father and I aren't your business. I don't want to argue with you about it." If your son ever lays a finger on you again you call the police.

WTF. There is a lot of autism in my family and the number of posters somehow saying this man's behaviour is not his responsibility/he can't help it/it's due to ND is disgusting. I have autistic family members married to NT partners.

Things like texting OP 'Why shouldn't our son abuse you'??? And posters saying oh he can't help it he's autistic???

Regardless of his diagnosis he's abusive and OP should seriously think about leaving.

No one would say 'oh stay married to the serial killer, he's a diagnosed psychopath so it's not his fault.'

Agree with this. It explains his black and white thinking.

but the response to his condition is all him.

@CienAnosDeSoledad i think you’re massively projecting your traumatic childhood onto this situation. This does not sound like a similar situation to your at all.

and in defence of your mother, if she had wanted to divorce your dad, she could’ve taken him to the cleaners. She’d probably have got the house, and a very generous child and spousal maintenance settlement.

if your mum was the gold digger you say, she WOULD have divorced him. Then She would have the money, but not have to put up with him.

Your ‘D’H loves facts:

The fact of the matter you’re not well suited together. You don’t make each other happy or bring the good out of each other.

YOU deserve happiness.

The whole set up sounds toxic. Life is too short to be miserable.

You can start again. Write a list of what you need in life, then write a list of what you want in life. What you need in life can be achieved. Even if you left the marriage penniless you’d be housed in an over 55+ retirement complex - they’re quite nice, a lot of lower middle class people end up selling their homes at the age of 75 and spending all the proceeds to live in one. If you don’t have savings the government will pay.

Good luck OP, be strong. You deserve happiness

@MyNextSteps can you look at this another way?

I know you are not yet 60, with hopefully many years ahead.

but how long would a small holding be sustainable? Lots of people on retirement down size anyway. A smaller home can be just as lovely. If it’s horses you have, you can still keep a horse at a stable and enjoy your next decade(s).

I also left because I couldn’t face never being in a loving relationship. I did find one but it took a long time, and there’s a good chance it won’t happen.

but once you’re out of this, you’ll find you don’t need one anyway. Build up a network of friends and you get a lot of validation from normal healthy relationships before looking for a new partner

@CienAnosDeSoledad Where you coped 'just fine', you'll read that OPs family aren't coping 'just fine'. He's staring into space on the sofa while the animals remain unfed.

Please don’t do this unless you can separate out all living quarters and turn the house into a pair of semi’s and even then I would think twice about it.

Seen too many lives ruined because they can’t move on and are stuck in a house with someone they hate but ignore

I would be making a note of how much 50% of everything is including pensions, house and any investments savings etc.

Could you afford to “buy” him out of the house If your 50% of everything was more than the 50% equity in the home

I.e friend gave up ownership of a small rental property they had and only took a small amount of cash from another rental property that was sold as there wasn’t any other way to split the house and not stay linked
( Neither had any pension fund)
Her 50% meant she took the “marital home” and a little cash from the sale of the 1 rental property and he got to keep his business got a small house and a large amount of cash

Interested to know what the amounts look like especially if his pension fund is quite large

If you don’t have enough to keep the house and small holding I would look elsewhere to find a smaller small holding to buy.

OP, I am ND and rather like your husband in some ways (although I hope not as manipulative).

I have a NT husband who puts up with a lot and ND children and other relatives (some of whom are very manipulative).

I also have cancer. It would be very hard for my husband to leave me now but frankly, if he did I would understand why. We aren't sure if my cancer is terminal but if it is, I hope he has a happier life after my death.

There I've said it (and name changed to post this). You need to leave and leave now, before you become even further enmeshed/his carer etc.

If I can say that to you, along with nearly every one else on this thread, then you must try and face what will no doubt be a very testing time (although you have been given some excellent advice). You can come out of this, and stronger, and you must.

You have nothing to lose by leaving and everything to gain... your life basically.

You know, it is possible that he's just a twat...you don't have to make this all about Asperger's. Once again, we're all tarred with the same brush.

Make a list of financial info, line up your ducks, and see a solicitor. Once you have all the info you can make a decision about how to move forward. You may decide to continue to live separately in the same house, or sell and split up and move forward. I wish you the best.

Strange, that people posting on support forums would have negative stories to tell about their relationships with neurodivergent partners. Oh. Wait. A lot of the research about how 'emotionally stunted' ND people are has come from NT scientists assuming there is only one 'correct' way of displaying empathy, rather than reflecting on the idea that autistic people might respond to (e.g.) an image of an upset person by saying they would leave them alone because that is what the autistic person would want for themselves. It's called the double empathy problem, and can be overcome, but means both parties need to work to overcome it, rather than just problematising the autistic partner.

Calling autism a developmental delay is pretty offensive. It is a difference that sometimes comes along with other delays, but it is not a delay in itself--hence neuroDIVERGENCE. You would likely be pretty offended if I said all NT people are developmentally delayed because they are poor systems thinkers (a type of thinking that is a strength in autism, and one that is pretty bloody useful in a world where we have extremely complex problems to solve).

I am autistic, happily married, with two children who love me, and a husband who relies on me for emotional and practical support. He also understands my limitations, and helps accommodate them by not expecting me to (e.g.) spend hours in a brightly lit shopping mall with music pumping from every store, But then I don't expect him, a natural redhead, to spend hours on the beach in the sun (something I like WAY more than he likes the mall). I am almost hyper-aware of my ...for want of a better word, deficits, and work very hard to mitigate their impact on the people around me. Very few people work to make me more comfortable, though, so I accommodate more than I am accommodated. I'm ok with that, generally; I'm a minority, I get it--but it is pretty fucking offensive in that context to be told that I'm a failed adult.

Relationships are give and take--ND, NT, whatever. Sometimes, the equation doesn't work out, and relationships end. That is hurtful to both parties. Sometimes, one party is an abusive fuckwit, NT or ND (OP's H is one of those). That is wrong, and shouldn't be tolerated by the victim/survivor, or, more importantly, by society at large. Whatever your situation was, it was hurtful to you, and I am genuinely sorry that it wasn't better for you. Assuming your partner's autism was the whole problem, though, is unfair and specious.

(edited for formatting bloop)

oh yes the old "put up and shut up". Excellent advice.

Many people would be very envious of such a solid home regardless of the pain and turbulence within.

Sorry but i would like a lovely happy marriage rather than be abused in a "solid home"

Is OP valuing it sufficiently at present

Yep OP, never mind the abuse and mental torture from both your husband and kids, think of the lovely solid home

The kids will leave home and continue to mature, meaning they are likely to to stop victimising her.

Not all ND kids leave home, some have to be supported long into adult hood, if the husband has spent years abusing the OP who says her children will suddenly change

The animals can be allowed to to gradually die off and not be replaced

Sounds like he does fuck all for the animals anyway, them dying will have no bearing on his life

OP and DH will remain eyeball to eyeball. His ghastly behaviour may matter less.

Exactly OP, stop giving a shit about how he treats you, it doesnt matter (dont have enough eyerolls for this one)

OP may develop health issues over the next decade and it may be that her apparently uncaring husband will turn out to be an excellent chauffeur and companion on hospital visits, that her brood of children will grow up and rally round

Of course he bloody wont. He can only think of himself and wont give the OP one drop of support or help

You really have achieved a lot together. I'm not saying 'don't leave him'.
I'm saying, please be aware of the consequences if you decide to dismantle your life's work

So you are saying dont leave him, you could lose your lovely solid home, all you have to do is carry on in the situation you are desperate to be free off

OP basically SixtySomething is advising to put up and shut up.

Excellent response to an infuriating post! The bit about 'allowing the animals to die off' - those animals she loves, and instead of doing something se enjoys she can just focus wholly on her horrific marriage and dick of a husband. Yeah, great advice.

One thing that struck me @MyNextSteps was that you're already talking about meeting another man via dating apps!

Dating now fills me with horror, what are my chances anyway and my friends are having horror stories on Bumble.... I would also have to go back to full time work at 60 to support myself and the children would be hostile to a new partner as they feel responsible for their victim dad

Surely after a long marriage that's not been happy the first thing you need is time on your own to rediscover who you are and what you want?

And to build up a comfortable life as a single 60 year old woman.

You don't want a rebound relationship and neither does any new man you meet want to hear all about your 'awful ex husband'.

You need time to move on emotionally before even thinking about another partner.