Neurodivergent husband has brought me to my knees, am I unreasonable to leave him ?

[MyNextSteps]

This is my first Mumsnet post so I'm sorry but this will be a long rant. But I have really lost my way and would appreciate everyone's thoughts.

My husband and I are in our late 50s and have been married for 25 years and have 5 kids who are late teens/20s.

The marriage has always had something "not quite right", something missing which I couldn't explain. DH didn't have many girlfriends I thought he was just shy. Once married I always felt he was avoidant, pulling away, preoccupied, unavailable, never initiated sex. If I ever tried to raise it, even gently, he was irritable and defensive, saying my "constant criticism and oversensitivity" was the problem and then he'd try to run away or hang up the phone or get busy or fall asleep or get one of the kids to interrupt us to shut me down. He is also very interested in facts not feelings and tends to disconnect from conversations once he's satisfied himself of the facts.

Eventually I dragged DH to therapy wondering if he was a covert narcissist but this year he's been diagnosed with High Functioning Autism Level 1 (Aspergers) which explains everything. I feel I'm in a nightmare as our story started out as a fairytale with our beautiful kids but now I'm acceptingw nothing will change with DH.

We both had good careers but I stayed at home to raise the kids. He worked hard to provide for us all but had a long commute. We moved out to the coast and bought a rambling old house with land, did it up and we have a small holding with animals. DH seemed to avoid intimacy but I didn't question it as he was tired and working so hard and so was I. He never took me out in the evening or hired a babysitter or took me away for a few nights. We only ever went away with the kids but I was so in the tunnel of parenthood and we didn't have much money to spare so I didn't really stop to question it.

Gradually the kids grew up and then DH stopped work and I thought we would spend more time together but I gradually realized he wasn't interested. Once he stopped work and was around 24/7 and the kids were grown up, it dawned on me that he was just making excuses to avoid time with me and avoid intimacy.

We did years of marriage therapy but he could neither express his feelings at all (alexithymia) or understand mine. He just cannot hear me - all he can hear is that he's being criticized and then he becomes a professional victim. I have given him a million chances to sort himself out, so many times we have fought and he always comes back, says sorry but nothing changes. Our therapist said he wouldn't change and to leave him as he wasn't able or interested in meeting my needs.

Some of the worst family fights have been when I have been angry with DH and then he goes to the kids and portrays himself as a victim and me as the perpetrator. Then the kids (who are angry he's so weak) stand up for him. So I'm then fighting my own kids and he sits there with his head in his hands not speaking while it all kicks off between me and the kids.

So there have been times when the kids have seen me as the aggressive bad cop whilst he is good cop being their friend as he does everything for them, drives them around, gives them money and never sets rules or boundaries. Mum "wears the trousers" and keeps it all fair and accountable. Although the kids hate on me for being bad cop I notice when life gets tricky they all come running to me for guidance because I'm actually the only real parent.

Every time the whole family gets together which is now only about twice a year I work hard to cook food and make it nice but either my husband or one of the ND kids has a meltdown or shutdown which ruins the occasion and the family doesn't speak for months, I am beginning to dread get togethers.

Now his daily routine is to get up feeling anxious and then just drift around for the rest of the day, no plan, no goals, achieving not much, never gets together with friends, sometimes hangs with his family (many of them have the same issues as him) low functioning, wears same clothes for days. If I ask him to do something he'll do it eventually but then says I'm bossy and that he feels "controlled" and then makes sure the kids know it.

Some of our kids have various neurodiverse traits/issues and DH and I clashed seriously about how to raise them because as a ND himself his first instinct was to deny their problems and help them to mask whereas I as an NT wanted to get them diagnosed and get them help. DH also insisted that we don't mention anyone's diagnosis in the family (shame) so when several of the kids have huge meltdowns we are not allowed to address it with the other kids and I can see that they feel guilty and responsible when it's not their fault.

Things have come to a head in the last few months. DH was being assessed for suspected cancer. He wasn't able to process many feelings about that beyond being sure he didn't want the kids to know. I did all the worrying and supporting whilst he looked blank and numb all through Christmas. Finally this week he got the "all clear", he did express some relief but I was hugely emotional after the hospital.

The same night one of our kids rang up and shouted at me because she'd given a message to DH for me to do something but he hadn't passed it on to me so I hadn't done what she needed me to do. I was still emotional from the hospital so after she'd put the phone down I was angry with DH that he hadn't passed on the message. He denied this so we started to argue. DH then portrayed himself a a victim in front of one of our sons who got aggressive with me and goaded and shoved me (he's 6 ft) and started being verbally abusive and telling me I was crazy (he didn't know about the hospital or cancer scare at all so didn't know why I was so emotional). I said to DH "tell him to stop" but DH said "why should he stop abusing you when you abuse me ?" (professional victim).

In that moment after 25 years something snapped in me. I did something I've never done before. I calmly put together a small bag of clothes and walked out. I drove off and checked into a local B&B where I am sitting now with no idea about my next move.

DH has brought me to my knees. It's not what he does, it's what he DOESN'T do, he's just absent from our marriage. He doesn't want me to leave but he doesn't want to have a relationship with me either. He just wants a housekeeper/secretary/organizer/mother not a wife. I want to leave him but then I break up the family, we lose our lovely home and I get blamed for that by him and the kids, I lose my smallholding and animals and will have to give up my dream part time job that I have taken up in the last few years too, so essentially I lose my entire life as it is currently.

I rang DH from the B&B to discuss the issues. He said "all you do is criticize me, I'm a victim" and hung up. He didn't want to discuss the issues because he can't summarize or express his feelings. He says he can't change and I am persecuting him to do things he can't do. He then said by the way if I was moving out then he'd sell our home and small holding because he wasn't interested in it anyway he only bought it for me (first I heard about that, he was the one that insisted we buy it when I wanted to stay in the city !). I went back briefly to our home to collect clothes etc and he was just lying flat on the sofa staring into space, washing left in the machine overnight, last night's dinner still on the table untouched, curtains not drawn, animals not fed, plants not watered, post not opened etc.

AIBU to leave and break up the family and sell our family home and smallholding and rehome the animals ? Or am I overreacting and should I accept he can't change, stop asking him to and just suck it up for the sake of the family ? DH is not a bad person, we have a lot in common with our joint kids, life and animals. He worked hard to support us all, he's never been unfaithful or had addictions or been abusive (contrast I've been a drunk and screaming harridan more than once when pushed beyond human limits by rigid and goading ND family members). I am also nearly 60 and have let myself go with all the stress. Dating now fills me with horror, what are my chances anyway and my friends are having horror stories on Bumble.... I would also have to go back to full time work at 60 to support myself and the children would be hostile to a new partner as they feel responsible for their victim dad. But he is not my husband or lover and he's more friends with the kids than a father to them. He is a professional victim and he has no capacity for a marriage or partnership with me. I would be happy to live alone but I keep having the sad thought that I don't want to get to the end of my life without having experienced a true and loving partnership.

If I could find a way to stay with DH I would but I have tried to compromise a million times. I don't want to have an affair either but it seems that if I stay I would have to completely deny my own needs for love, support, intimacy, boundaries, joint parenting, joy etc and life is too short for that. Advice please.

This sounds incredibly toxic for everyone. Your poor kids having to navigate the nightmare of their parents dysfunctional marriage. Which doesn’t excuse your son - he has been physically abusive to you and you’re now not safe at home. You can’t go on like this. You know it.

I don’t think explaining to her son how she felt about his domestic abuse of her will work. He already doesn’t care or believe her. And trying to justify why her husband was actually wrong/ she was right will just reignite the whole argument.

It doesn’t actually matter who was right and wrong in the argument between OP and her husband: regardless, her adult children are not entitled to stick their oars in, and her son is DEFINITELY not entitled to get physical with his mother. The only thing she needs to tell him that behaviour is reprehensible and unjustifiable, and she requires a full unreserved apology and assurance that it will never happen again.

Meanwhile, she should consider reporting the incident to the police.

As others have said, you absolutely can't carry on like this. Yes, you need to leave. It's not healthy for any of you to continue in what is clearly a very toxic environment.

Your husband may have autism and your kids may be ND but that absolutely does not excuse their treatment of you.

I think the real question is why have you stayed married to this man for 25 years in the first place.

You would not be unreasonable to leave him. You should also be a lot more open with your kids about the problems your husband has instead of hiding things from them at his request.

He seems to love it when I'm screaming and triggered by his behavior

Just wanted to pick-up on this too - my ex was exactly like this as well. The penny dropped for me when we were in couples counselling, that he actually did it on purpose and it wasn’t just arguments that escalated. He wound me up deliberately so that I would get angry and exasperated, he’d be the victim and be able to see himself as the calm sane one while I was a crazy shouty cow. Not only did it give him the moral high ground, it allowed him to externalise his own anger and emotions that he couldn’t express and see them played out.

Understanding this made it easier to disengage and give up on trying to get through to him. He didn’t have any intention of being got through to.

The relief when I finally told him it was over was immense (even though he didn’t listen and had to be told multiple times). I felt like I could breathe for the first time in years.

I think this is the problem here - the more OP demands a connection that DH can’t provide, the more he retreats. So OP redoubles her efforts and he feels victimised and misunderstood. It could well look like bullying to the children and the outside world even if that’s not how OP means it - she’s trying to get connection and support from a man who can’t do either.

At this point, OP has been trying for 25 years to get him to function differently I think it’s time to accept that that is not possible. The diagnosis such as it is is upsetting for her as it proves she was flogging a dead horse, a final confirmation that things will never change.

I can’t imagine why him being “neurodivergent” is the headline on this thread. OP you don’t like how he treats you and he isn’t willing to change. He could have literally any disability and it would make no difference.

Hi @MyNextSteps

I first of all just wanted to send you lots of love - this must be so incredibly difficult.
There is so much great advice in here so I thought I would drop in slightly different thoughts.
whatever path you end up following, one of the first steps is to look after yourself physically and mentally. This includes good sleep, a calm mind, fitness. I would also suggest a short break if you can. Send a polite calm note to the family re feeding animals and then stay away or go further afield and do a few nice things for you. Embrace the joy of a nice meal on your own or visit a friend.
Try some meditation and yoga, read a good book and eat well. Try and find some calm to approach your life choices and the discussions that lie ahead of you.
good luck OP x

Leave as soon as possible.
From a ND person as well, never allow another human to bring you "to your knees".
This is primarily your life. Act on it!

I'm guessing you're not in the UK given that Asperger's Syndrome isn't diagnosed anymore, and functioning levels are redundant. I'm also curious about how a therapist made a diagnosis. Is the therapist a qualified doctor? I guess I just want to make sure he has been properly assessed and diagnosed by the appropriate person.

It does sound to me like you don't have much of an understanding of autism. It isn't a short fall, it's the way the brain is wired. For some parts, it is possible to recognise what behaviours can be worked on, but for the most part, it isn't (meltdowns can't be helped, and don't happen with the intent to ruin good times). I say this as an ND person. Being shouted at and berated for things I have no control over has taken its toll over the years.

That being said, I wonder if the autism diagnosis is a red herring. He may well have a co-morbid personality and/or he may just be a dickhead. You're clearly not happy, and I'm not surprised, you've been treated abysmally. You don't have to spend the rest of your life feeling this way. You have plenty of time to find a new dream and start again. But please don't focus too much on finding another relationship - learn to be on your own and find yourself again.

It seems to me that you have clearly identified the alternatives - leave and lose your lovely home, or stay and be a shadow of your self.

There is no perfect option. Only you can decide what to sacrifice.

Leave. Ypou do not need to stay. You do not need to be labelled the bully by a family that expects you to be at their beck and call.

FWIW, I am married to a man with Aspergers. He has a number of issues dealing with life and emotions that I have struggled with over the years. But he is kind, loving, affectionate, romantic, thoughtful and makes it clear he still finds me attractive after 30 years together. Your husband's unpleasantness and coldness aren't an inherent part of autism. One of our sons is also autistic and is very affectionate and romantic with his girlfriend.

You do not have to stay in a life that takes so much from you and gives you nothing back.

This too. Neither my ASD husband nor my ASD son would ever push me or physically threaten me in any way. They are two of the gentlest men I've ever met. Again, don't lump all bad behaviour as autistic - bad behaviour is bad behaviour. Autism is autism. The two are not necessarily connected in any way and high functioning autism is certainly not an excuse for violence. Ever.

Yes this should have happened.

I left my first marriage when dcs were small and I won't say it didn't affect them but they're well balanced adults. I get on with exdh though.

I agree with getting your priorities in a row. I'd definitely be putting dating last.

I'm sorry, love. Well done for finally putting yourself and your wellbeing first after decades of putting yourself at the bottom of an ever increasing and heavy pile.

You're my age. So potentially that could be several more decades of this. And with no children to look after as they go off into their own lives, that will be you and him blinking at each other into your old age.

I can't imagine what it must be like trying to navigate a world that was not designed for you. But I can imagine what it's like being with an ND partner, because that's our life.

Neurodivergence and personality/behaviour aren't 💯 percent the same thing; I know from experience an ND man can be lovely, but sadly yours isn't. (There is a long running thread here somewhere on coping with life with a ND partner.)

He will never, ever change, because that is who he is. Like his height, his brain is an integral part of him. Accept the things you cannot change.

So now you're away from it, take this time and space to re-evaluate. Change the things you can. Work out where you are now, where you want to be in one year. He won't/can't change. But you can. You can take control, be both the leading lady and the director instead of an extra.

For this next phase of your life - what do you want?

I mean, the other thing to remember is that if you know an autistic person, you know one autistic person. It’s as useful to generalise about autistic individuals as it is to generalise about white people or neurotypical individuals.

It is 100% unreasonable that he us not willing to tell them!

I don't know how on earth you have got through the past few years

You need to start with complete honesty in the family. Everyone needs to know about the diagnosis. I mean for all of the ND members of the family. How dare your H conceal this and make your DC feel shame?! 😡

Hopefully they can then feel freer and get the help they need

They also need to know about the cancer and some of the other stuff (avoid the intimacy issues - TMI fir the dc)

You should not be getting all the blame here just because he wants to hide stuff

You have to start thinking about the rest of your life. You know you cannot bear this for the next 30-40 years, so it feels like it's time to bite the bullet

You can do this - you have shown incredible resilience and strength over the years - it's just time to redirect it

Please save yourself OP. One life. Lots of luck. 💐

I think you do need to leave. The current situation is miserable for all of youj. You want something your DH can't provide. I have been very happily married to a somewhat volatile DH with ASD for over 40 years. But I knew exactly what I was getting into. I actively don't want romance or an over close relationship. Just a sharp wit, basic decency and someone who doesn't bore me.

OP let's just say for argument's sake that you reconciled yourself to the fact that he is incapable of giving you what you want from a husband. You detach yourself from him emotionally. You have no expectations of him as a husband. What would your lives together look like? If you changed, how do you think he would react? Would he be happy rubbing along as companionable housemates or do you think there would still be verbal abuse?

I have to say that, whilst I agree with other PPs that it is not just his autism at play here, having someone constantly having a go at you for the way you were born is going to drive you crazy. It's not much different to telling someone paralysed from the waist down that they need to try harder to walk. It's completely pointless and they will feel attacked and victimised. That aside, the wearing of the same clothes for days on end and lying on the sofa staring listlessly at the ceiling would suggest depression so maybe he would agree to see the doctor about that. It also sounds like he needs some kind of hobby or activity for mental stimulation.

For you, I would start by taking better care of myself and doing more for just me. At the moment you are wife and mother and both those roles are bringing you a lot of pain and heartache. I'm not sure I'd recommend OLD just yet (or at all) but get out there, meet new people of both sexes and see if positive connection with others helps take the pressure off. You're giving yourself space to be able to think through what kind of a future you'd like. The only person you can change is you but as you change, the behaviour of those around you will change too. If that makes life happier for you all then maybe you can find a way to stay and meet your needs for intimacy and emotional connection elsewhere. I'm assuming he wouldn’t be bothered if you had a relationship outside of the marriage? If things are still awful for you then you have your answer and divorce would be your only option. If you are in England the starting point for the division of matrimonial assets (house, investments, pensions etc) regardless of whose name they are in, is 50/50. As you have brought up 5 children it is possible you would receive a higher share. Seek legal advice so that you have a realistic idea of what you could afford housing wise post divorce. If the house is currently in his name only you should register a Matrimonial Home Rights Notice with Land Registry so that he can't sell it without your knowledge.

I think you will need to be honest with your children about what's been going on with your DH. They are old enough to hear it, even if they don't fully understand the impact it's had on you (that may only come with time and their own relationships.) The son who squared up to you needs to be told that you've reported it to the police so that it is on record, and if he ever does something like that again the police will be called. However frustrated he feels he is never to use his strength against a woman.

I would also consider your ages: late 50s is still young but healthwise not much gets better with the passing years.

None of us have any idea of the full situation. We have only heard the OPs point of view.
I advised the OP to separate from her husband because it sounds toxic for them both. I don't think she is getting anything fom the relationship.
I advised the OP that it would be the kind thing to do to check her husband has some support when they separate (not from her) because change can be increadibly difficult for people with autism and it sounds like he is already suffering from symptoms of depression.
Not sure why you think I have a selfish attitude?

The OP has been demanding a connection from her DH that he cannot provide, he has told her that and she has also been told this by their counsellor/psychologist. The more she demands the more he retreats, feels misunderstood and like a victim. To the children this can look like bullying even though this is clearly not what the OP is trying to do. She is just trying to connect. But someone constantly shouting at you to do something that you cannot do is hard. If DH was disabled and could not walk but the OP shouted at him every day for not walking there would be a different response here. Autism is an invisible disability and it presents differently for different people.

In saying that I think her DH involving the children is wrong and not standing up to his son is also wrong.
It is clearly a toxic environment for all involved.

Totally agree with the PP. Please don't think that abusive people 'can't help it' because of a diagnosis. And even if they can't - you don't have to put up with abuse. It's like staying bleeding in the sea with a shark and letting it eat you because 'it can't help it'.

Stop saying ND family members-by prefacing shitty behaviours with ND, you are treating them as if they are medically unable to help themselves.

Just start looking at them as people who behave like shits to you and you may find that you come to some conclusions about them pretty sharpish.

The amount of women who take appalling behaviour from husbands and children because they can preface absolute shite with ND is really shocking.

It may exist but I'm sure that in a good few cases, it allows abusers to say it isn't their fault. Stop buying into it.

I'm guessing you're not in the UK given that Asperger's Syndrome isn't diagnosed anymore, and functioning levels are redundant. I'm also curious about how a therapist made a diagnosis. Is the therapist a qualified doctor? I guess I just want to make sure he has been properly assessed and diagnosed by the appropriate person.

That was my question. Asperger’s is not in the DSM-5 (U.S) or the ICM-11 which is international (developed by WHO). It was ditched as a diagnosis in 2019.

Your H may be ND but he's also abusive. And he absolutely is abusive in a similar way to a covert narcissist. And it is frightening to me how he has managed to turn the children away from you, most likely because you have been protecting and covering for his deficiencies while he has been blaming you for his.

YOu should leave as soon as you can. YOu should also be honest with your children. As young adults, I'd be tempted to write them a letter to explain. Expect them to be angry. They will blame yo - they have spent their whole lives being trained to believe that their dad is not a problem and you are. But you still need to do it and I hope that they will see, in time, how you have trie.d