Neurodivergent husband has brought me to my knees, am I unreasonable to leave him ?

[MyNextSteps]

This is my first Mumsnet post so I'm sorry but this will be a long rant. But I have really lost my way and would appreciate everyone's thoughts.

My husband and I are in our late 50s and have been married for 25 years and have 5 kids who are late teens/20s.

The marriage has always had something "not quite right", something missing which I couldn't explain. DH didn't have many girlfriends I thought he was just shy. Once married I always felt he was avoidant, pulling away, preoccupied, unavailable, never initiated sex. If I ever tried to raise it, even gently, he was irritable and defensive, saying my "constant criticism and oversensitivity" was the problem and then he'd try to run away or hang up the phone or get busy or fall asleep or get one of the kids to interrupt us to shut me down. He is also very interested in facts not feelings and tends to disconnect from conversations once he's satisfied himself of the facts.

Eventually I dragged DH to therapy wondering if he was a covert narcissist but this year he's been diagnosed with High Functioning Autism Level 1 (Aspergers) which explains everything. I feel I'm in a nightmare as our story started out as a fairytale with our beautiful kids but now I'm acceptingw nothing will change with DH.

We both had good careers but I stayed at home to raise the kids. He worked hard to provide for us all but had a long commute. We moved out to the coast and bought a rambling old house with land, did it up and we have a small holding with animals. DH seemed to avoid intimacy but I didn't question it as he was tired and working so hard and so was I. He never took me out in the evening or hired a babysitter or took me away for a few nights. We only ever went away with the kids but I was so in the tunnel of parenthood and we didn't have much money to spare so I didn't really stop to question it.

Gradually the kids grew up and then DH stopped work and I thought we would spend more time together but I gradually realized he wasn't interested. Once he stopped work and was around 24/7 and the kids were grown up, it dawned on me that he was just making excuses to avoid time with me and avoid intimacy.

We did years of marriage therapy but he could neither express his feelings at all (alexithymia) or understand mine. He just cannot hear me - all he can hear is that he's being criticized and then he becomes a professional victim. I have given him a million chances to sort himself out, so many times we have fought and he always comes back, says sorry but nothing changes. Our therapist said he wouldn't change and to leave him as he wasn't able or interested in meeting my needs.

Some of the worst family fights have been when I have been angry with DH and then he goes to the kids and portrays himself as a victim and me as the perpetrator. Then the kids (who are angry he's so weak) stand up for him. So I'm then fighting my own kids and he sits there with his head in his hands not speaking while it all kicks off between me and the kids.

So there have been times when the kids have seen me as the aggressive bad cop whilst he is good cop being their friend as he does everything for them, drives them around, gives them money and never sets rules or boundaries. Mum "wears the trousers" and keeps it all fair and accountable. Although the kids hate on me for being bad cop I notice when life gets tricky they all come running to me for guidance because I'm actually the only real parent.

Every time the whole family gets together which is now only about twice a year I work hard to cook food and make it nice but either my husband or one of the ND kids has a meltdown or shutdown which ruins the occasion and the family doesn't speak for months, I am beginning to dread get togethers.

Now his daily routine is to get up feeling anxious and then just drift around for the rest of the day, no plan, no goals, achieving not much, never gets together with friends, sometimes hangs with his family (many of them have the same issues as him) low functioning, wears same clothes for days. If I ask him to do something he'll do it eventually but then says I'm bossy and that he feels "controlled" and then makes sure the kids know it.

Some of our kids have various neurodiverse traits/issues and DH and I clashed seriously about how to raise them because as a ND himself his first instinct was to deny their problems and help them to mask whereas I as an NT wanted to get them diagnosed and get them help. DH also insisted that we don't mention anyone's diagnosis in the family (shame) so when several of the kids have huge meltdowns we are not allowed to address it with the other kids and I can see that they feel guilty and responsible when it's not their fault.

Things have come to a head in the last few months. DH was being assessed for suspected cancer. He wasn't able to process many feelings about that beyond being sure he didn't want the kids to know. I did all the worrying and supporting whilst he looked blank and numb all through Christmas. Finally this week he got the "all clear", he did express some relief but I was hugely emotional after the hospital.

The same night one of our kids rang up and shouted at me because she'd given a message to DH for me to do something but he hadn't passed it on to me so I hadn't done what she needed me to do. I was still emotional from the hospital so after she'd put the phone down I was angry with DH that he hadn't passed on the message. He denied this so we started to argue. DH then portrayed himself a a victim in front of one of our sons who got aggressive with me and goaded and shoved me (he's 6 ft) and started being verbally abusive and telling me I was crazy (he didn't know about the hospital or cancer scare at all so didn't know why I was so emotional). I said to DH "tell him to stop" but DH said "why should he stop abusing you when you abuse me ?" (professional victim).

In that moment after 25 years something snapped in me. I did something I've never done before. I calmly put together a small bag of clothes and walked out. I drove off and checked into a local B&B where I am sitting now with no idea about my next move.

DH has brought me to my knees. It's not what he does, it's what he DOESN'T do, he's just absent from our marriage. He doesn't want me to leave but he doesn't want to have a relationship with me either. He just wants a housekeeper/secretary/organizer/mother not a wife. I want to leave him but then I break up the family, we lose our lovely home and I get blamed for that by him and the kids, I lose my smallholding and animals and will have to give up my dream part time job that I have taken up in the last few years too, so essentially I lose my entire life as it is currently.

I rang DH from the B&B to discuss the issues. He said "all you do is criticize me, I'm a victim" and hung up. He didn't want to discuss the issues because he can't summarize or express his feelings. He says he can't change and I am persecuting him to do things he can't do. He then said by the way if I was moving out then he'd sell our home and small holding because he wasn't interested in it anyway he only bought it for me (first I heard about that, he was the one that insisted we buy it when I wanted to stay in the city !). I went back briefly to our home to collect clothes etc and he was just lying flat on the sofa staring into space, washing left in the machine overnight, last night's dinner still on the table untouched, curtains not drawn, animals not fed, plants not watered, post not opened etc.

AIBU to leave and break up the family and sell our family home and smallholding and rehome the animals ? Or am I overreacting and should I accept he can't change, stop asking him to and just suck it up for the sake of the family ? DH is not a bad person, we have a lot in common with our joint kids, life and animals. He worked hard to support us all, he's never been unfaithful or had addictions or been abusive (contrast I've been a drunk and screaming harridan more than once when pushed beyond human limits by rigid and goading ND family members). I am also nearly 60 and have let myself go with all the stress. Dating now fills me with horror, what are my chances anyway and my friends are having horror stories on Bumble.... I would also have to go back to full time work at 60 to support myself and the children would be hostile to a new partner as they feel responsible for their victim dad. But he is not my husband or lover and he's more friends with the kids than a father to them. He is a professional victim and he has no capacity for a marriage or partnership with me. I would be happy to live alone but I keep having the sad thought that I don't want to get to the end of my life without having experienced a true and loving partnership.

If I could find a way to stay with DH I would but I have tried to compromise a million times. I don't want to have an affair either but it seems that if I stay I would have to completely deny my own needs for love, support, intimacy, boundaries, joint parenting, joy etc and life is too short for that. Advice please.

Kindly OP, you had 5 children with the wrong man.
You have endured years of being a parent and support to 6 children.

Its over. Really over.
Tell him and start the process of divorce.
Do not go back and tell your children when they ask anything of you, to contact their father.

It sounds like you have been in a living hell and why you fought so hard to save this shit show is beyond me.

He is a deeply selfish person who happens to be ND.
Why you had 5 children with him is genuinely inexplicable.

Accept its over and make plans now to divorce.

@Marriumph
he shouldn’t have married her if he didn’t find her sexually attractive. That’s on him.

Many autistic people cannot manage relationships, either romantic or friendships - but not because if being manipulative, uncaring and emotionally abusive, as is the case with OPs husband.

I have only put yabu because he can’t make his nd go away. it’s how his brain is wired and he can’t change no matter how much you want him to. Yanbu to leave and I would encourage you to do so because you will spend the rest of your life unhappy if you stay with him.

Amen to all this. Kind and sensible advice.

Better things are in your future OP. God knows, you deserve it.

For what it's worth, my mum was unexpectedly widowed at 62. She'd been with my dad since they met at university, and although she loved him completely, he had his own mental health issues and was often a tough guy to be with.
I think if you asked her honestly, 8 years on, she'd say that once over the shock and trauma of his passing, she's never been happier. She has an amazing social life, heaps of friends and loads more confidence than she ever used to have. She's living her best life wholeheartedly.

Just to address the whole no intimacy thing... I suspect he got married because that felt like the social norm of things to do. In my experience, ND people, especially high functioning ones are very keen on social norms, because it offers clear guidance.
But actually, he could be gay. Or, perhaps more likely, asexual. I know quite a number of high functioning autistic people who are asexual. Either they've discovered the term for themselves, or they've just genuinely no interest whatsoever in physical relationships.

He IS being emotionally abusive - just look at the emotional abuse part of the 'power and control wheel'
Put aside the neurodiversity OP - what are you really getting out of this relationship?
I'd suggest you first talk to Women's Aid for advice, move back home if it's safe to do so, and start putting things in place to divorce him.
Yes, your life will change, but as he's either unwilling or incapable of understanding the impact on you and working together to mitigate that, then you only have a miserable future ahead.
I wouldn't focus on meeting someone else afterwards - build a new life around your work, interests and supportive friends old and new.

@bubblesbluesky I’m not sure it’s fair to say that a NT/ND marriage could never work out, though it’s always going to be a potential point of strain on the marriage. I am (to my knowledge!) NT but I am a very empathetic and patient person and feel like I have a really good understanding of autism due to my job (I’m a GP). I am currently single following divorce after domestic abuse, and I do think at this point in my life I could potentially find a happy life with a partner with autism. Not to say that I would seek it out specifically, and I do understand the potential downsides, but I feel like I understand autism well enough not to expect that person to be something they are not and can never be. I would struggle with a total lack of intimacy though, but I’m not convinced that no person with ASD ever enjoys sex? Surely many autistic people are sensory-seeking (I appreciate that others are sensory-avoidant and can’t stand even to be hugged in which case I expect that may well be the case).

For example, my late aunt (definitely NT) was married to a man who I would be fairly sure has Asperger’s. He is a gentle soul, great with animals, hardworking, very kind to the kids, and treated my aunt so well in many ways. But just so utterly “hapless” to the point that when I was younger I used to wonder how she could live with it! The worst thing was when she was literally having a heart attack and needed his help and he just didn’t really get what was going on and drove her to the hospital instead of calling an ambulance wasting valuable time… but she never held it or anything else against him and truly loved him for who he was, even though she had to manage 99 percent of the practicalities of life for them both. His young adult child has had to move in with him after she died as he just would not cope on his own really.

Anyway, I think it CAN work but I do appreciate many people do not have the ability and patience to truly understand and love the person for who they are, especially when the practicalities of life and reading of social situations etc fall very heavily on the NT partner. It can be a heavy load to carry for sure.

It’s not totally clear what’s going on in OP’s situation, particularly given that she has admitted being drunk and screaming at him and the kids etc. on more than one occasion, and she does sound like she has long expected him to stop being autistic basically which must be frustrating for both of them, and is not realistic at all.

But having been a victim of domestic abuse, I do agree that the ?DARVO and recruiting the children fall into the domestic abuse “playbook”. And that encouraging the son to be physically violent towards her is a massive red flag regardless of the motivations behind that. This is a concerning and dangerous situation for OP and I think she is right to have got the hell out of there for the time being. It is very possible that he is both autistic and deliberately abusive as others have said.

At the same time I could accept that it’s not completely impossible that this attitude from the husband is in this case possibly largely down to a total misreading and misunderstanding of the social situation and social norms (as in it’s not ever acceptable for a man to hit a woman) because of the ASD, believing that she is abusive towards him
and therefore it’s totally fine to retaliate (or encourage his son to do so) in a tit for that way as that’s “fair” or something? Although in my experience a lot of autistic people once they have learned basic social “rules” (such as not hitting women) would actually go out of their way not to break them, and very much judge others negatively who step outside of those bounds rather than encourage it.

To be honest, in a way the underlying motivation for this sequence of events doesn’t really matter as much as the fact that it’s really problematic for OP, and is kind of academic at this point. OP is clearly super unhappy in the marriage and there are some really unhealthy and unhelpful dynamics going on in the family generally, including with the children if her adult sized son has been physically aggressive to her. It doesn’t sound great for any of the family right now. OP I definitely think you should leave (and definitely don’t have an affair! That will 100 percent not help the whole situation at all!). I know it’s hard striking out on your own, especially when you’re older, but there is a real peace in being able to do your own thing and have your own space after living in a chaotic stressful environment like you describe.

I divorced for a lot of similar reasons, and stil can't work out what my XH might be diagnosed with if he would care to go down a diagnosis route, but I have decided it's not any of my business.

You can control your own thoughts and behaviour. That's it. Not his. Not your DC.

so essentially I lose my entire life as it is currently

Yes, you do. You have to if you want something different. You can't hang on to everything like it is, and simultaneously get the change you want. You've tried long and hard and it has worn you down and you deserve some peace.

See a solicitor, don't hang about. Decide which direction you want to go in. You've been doing what you need to do for the family for decades, you need now to reclaim this bit of your life for yourself. Deal with the practicalities, jump through the hoops as they appear and head towards peace.

OP you need to leave.

I am autistic. Yes it CAN be an explanation for a person's struggles but this situation with your husband is much more than that. Regardless of which bits he COULD try to work on and which he just will never be able to manage, this is unhealthy and toxic for you. Don't let his neurodivergence make you feel guilty, and keep you in this very unhealthy dynamic where you now have adult male children squaring up to you while he allows them to abuse you.

You could both live to be 100. I know you feel it's late in life to make big changes but when you think you could live to be 100 it's really not! My neighbour is 96, still lives in his own home, is out and about etc. Equally what if you only have 10 years left to really live?! To find peace and be less stressed and stretched, and to feel safe and comfortable emotionally.

I'd take some time away from home and go no or low contact with him AND the kids for a few weeks minimum. Leave them all to it. In the meantime get legal advice about the house and divorce. I'd also look into therapy that's just for you. I know in my town there are schemes where it is heavily subsidised costs wise for people on low incomes and it's trainees in their final year - I've used this therapy service in my area and it's been such a positive step for me to focus on myself for an hour a week and really dig into how I interact with people and my own wants and needs.

Workwise maybe you can keep you lovely part time job and find another small earner around it. It doesn't have to be a big thing that you will have to leave that job, I think your brain is just so overwhelmed it's all negative absolutes - no surprise considering what you are living with emotionally!

Emotional manipulation can absolutely be a part of autism, along with abusive behaviour. I would argue that ND people have a high susceptibility of displaying destructive, impulsive or abusive behaviour towards others because they have struggled their entire lives to fit into a society not really made for them.

People are highly complex and there are no blanket "rules" that apply across all of humanity. Many MH issues can also change over the years with one person fitting in several criteria. The most plausible theory which someone mentioned on MN is that untreated autism can often develop into narcissism. As a desperate way to have their needs met or cope with their various sensory issues, autistics start to display narcissistic behaviour to control the people and patterns around them. This easily involves emotional manipulation.

My mum displays every signs of covert narcissism yet at the same time I'm convinced she is also ND. Over the years, the whole family has learned to bend to her wishes otherwise she would have a major tantrum, meltdown or whatnot. Seeing it from an adult perspective, a lot of her manipulation were related to avoiding sensory triggers but which made no sense at the time.

Please sort the animals out, it is clear he won’t. It is not fair on them.

leave. Leave. Id go no contact with the abusive kids. How dare they treat you like this. Ungrateful.

I actually have autism.

The behaviours described by OP of manipulation and goading are not autism. He has sufficient understanding of others to puppeteer their adult children to fighting his corner and taking his side. He has sufficient understanding of what matters to his wife to immediately threaten to sell the small holding if she leaves.

He stood back and watched as their son threatened domestic violence against his wife.

Also not understanding what matters to someone is different from not caring. Autistic people do try.

Have you started taking control of as much money as you can, Change authority so that 'they' can't fritter it away. I am not suggesting you keep it, just ensure that you manage it. The rest don't sound too sensible.🤔

Absolute bollocks.

Your nonsense theorising is harmful to people with genuine autism.

This is madness. You have spent years trying to change him which is impossible. You can't change him. It sounds as though you need to split - for the good of everyone. And, for the record, you shouldn't have shouted at him for not passing on the message. The fault was with your DC for their reaction...you passed that down the line which isn't fair...that is abusive.

Sounds like ND is only once factor here. I don’t think anyone would blame you for leaving, and you certainly shouldn’t blame yourself.

It sounds like your relationship has completely broken down. Your children are grown up. You need to leave but don’t look for ND to explain anything. in a way It’s nothing to do with that. You seem to think very little of him with very good reason and vice versa it’s finished.

I’m autistic. Lots of my family members are autistic. I opened this thread expecting it to be another autism-bashing thread. Your op isn’t although some responses are.

You need to leave this prick. He is abusive. Autism is a red herring.

A lot of this is familiar to me too OP. I’ve had two partners including my long-term ex and dad of my DC, who couldn’t understand or express their own feelings and played the victim. My ex never listened to me or cared about my needs. It’s exhausting. But your situation sounds much harder because of the way the kids are involved too. That’s unforgivable of him to manipulate them like that and support your son shoving you. That would be the line in the sand for me.

I left my ex a while ago with youngish children so not the same, but I do think you need to end it. You need and deserve a happy life without all these stresses and emotional pressures. Assuming you’re married, yes you can sell the smallholding and get enough money from the divorce to have your own home. It will be an upheaval of course but one thing that made me determined to go through it all was thinking “do I want to be 80 and wake up every day into this life, dealing with this impossible man and being miserable?” Yes I have to work hard, and yes the dating scene is grim (i’ve given up on that really) but what matters most to me is that when both my DC are old enough to be independent in a few years, I’ll be able to spend my life doing what I like and not being continually upset and worn out by an emotionally illiterate, selfish and solipsistic man.

As for your son he needs the riot act reading to him and to be told extremely clearly you will not tolerate aggression and if anything like that happens again you will call the police and he will not be welcome in your home. And do it. Absolutely do not let him think his dad is right and it’s reasonable behaviour. You’re being literally and metaphorically pushed around and it’s time to say no.

Do you want another 25 years of this?

50 something is still young!

You can have a whole new life.

You have absolutely no idea of peoples situations so get off your high horse, neuro diverse or not the op has been unhappy for a long time, what is she actually getting from the relationship l? Nothing so perhaps look at your selfish attitude and not others.

@User664334 I don’t think there is any evidence for what you are suggesting at all (that autism can somehow turn into narcissism or that autistic people tend to be manipulative).

Same here - it’s taken four years and he NEVER opened up about how he felt. He did however meet someone and marry them quickly! I’ve been very restrained in what I’ve told my children about the past but they just ‘know” from his attitude towards them now. I am very calm and happy now. I have about 1/10th of my possessions and said a sad goodbye to the family home of 27 years, but I am in control of my simpler life.

Oh my god, I could have written your post! I'm a bit younger but I've been through exactly the same thing with my now ex-husband and now I am wondering it he is ND? Impossible for me ever to know as he absolutely refused to engage with any kind of therapy. But he's exactly the same as your OH - completely emotionally (and physically) unavailable - and ultimately, no, I couldn't deal with it either. I felt like I was a single person in a marriage and eventually I decided I may as well just be a single person. Both of us are happier like this. I think he prefers being on his own and having his own house, as I genuinely think he struggled with my 'demands' for an emotional connection. Like your husband, I think he saw this as me nagging him and I started to worry that I was actually bullying him, as the harder I tried to connect with him, the more he pulled away. I couldn't win so I gave up - but it's fine. I genuinely believe it's better for all of us this way. Of course it hasn't been easy getting here, but three years down the line, I feel much happier and I am sure (and the kids say) that he's happy too. Good luck whatever you decide.

I broke up with someone with ASD for similar reasons. He won't change. He is also an arsehole, on top of ASD.

You need to get out. Take the pets with you and run. Is your son perhaps ASD too?