Should school supervise better?

[SupercutSchool]

I really don't know if I'm overreacting. DS 6yo, diagnosed with autism. Have frequent meetings at the school and end up keep explaining the same things over and over. They seem kind and have good intentions, I don't think they're uncaring or unkind staff. I feel like I'm always telling the school he struggles calculating risks. For the past 1.5 years he's been at a desk with a TA to keep him on task and presumably safe, he works well in this set up.

Yesterday, the TA wasn't in and the teacher thought it was a good idea to mix the table groups up to experience working with other people. The TA that was covering and the teacher were circulating around the class. So he wasn't in his usual table set up and had no supervision at times and they were doing cutting and sticking.

So, my son cut his fringe and the other children told on him. Nobody told me I just noticed he has a fringe now. I don't mind about the haircut I care that he had scissors near his eyes. When I told them I'm worried about scissors near his eyes they've told me that their scissors probably won't cut skin and that they'll now be more aware with him and scissors.

My issue is that I've told them he has almost zero danger awareness, it's really scary to me. Every time some accident happens I say "yeah, he's not aware of possible dangers and risks. Even when they're explained, he often won't believe something is actually dangerous." They say they get it. Then something else happens. They have replied to me as if they didn't know something could go wrong with him and scissors. I think "unaware of dangers" should cover scissors? I'm worried if I give a list an accident will happen with something I've forgotten to put on the list or something we've never done at home before.

My second issue is that having blunt scissors banged into an eyeball isn't a cut on the skin. I'm worried he could blind himself or someone else. I'm not worried about his hair or skin vs kids scissors, just eyes. But I feel that the school don't think that is a risk.

Am I overreacting and should chill out?

Or should I try to come up with a list of specific dangers and not just say unaware of dangers in general.

Or should I give up trying to communicate about this and look for a different school?

Does his EHCP stipulate 1 to 1 at all times? What does that say about the level of supervision he needs to receive?
Dors his class usually have a TA and his TA, or just 1?

He doesn't have an EHCP the school have said they weren't sure at first. Then last term they said they were going to do one but that it takes a long time to do it. The class usually have a TA and that TA is always on the table of the children that need extra help, not just my DS. I don't think he needs direct 121 support but I think the school and I agree he definitely needs a TA at the same table.

As a teacher I've had neuro typical children cut their own hair several times. It can happen in the blink of an eye, I've always been mortified it happened on my watch but parents have generally been OK about it. I'm afraid its something children do and he's unlikely to have poked his own eyes out.

Many 6 yo have limited awareness of danger, so it’s up to the teachers and TA’s to keep all the children safe, but particularly an autistic child with even less awareness of danger. Where was his usual TA? These are little behaviours they should know about by now. I would ask to have a support plan meeting with them and really reiterate to them that the incident could have led to serious injury, if that’s your feeling on it. Keep an eye on how the school are handling your child and consider moving him if they do not support his needs on a daily basis. The only caveat is that another school could be just the same, or worse. You also need to work on his danger awareness at home if you can, if you’re not already doing so. I know it’s not easy.

These children probably believe that scissors are dangerous though? I mean to some extent. I'm not sure he believes scissors are sharp or dangerous. It's his awareness of danger, or lack of, that worries me. I think most 6yo that cut their own hair would be careful of their eyes? But I also believe I could be being silly and that neurotypical 6yo also don't understand scissors are sharp.

Thank you. The usual TA was poorly I think. There was a covering TA but they weren't sitting at the same table, they were going to all tables. I think it was a very different set up to usual for this lesson.

All teaching and support staff should be briefed about children who are SEN prior to going into the classroom. Especially teaching assistants given that that is their primary focus of the job.

I think from what you are saying, that he needs constant watching and doesn't understand dangers, you need to push for a 1:1 and get that EHCP in place.
There are so many SEN children now in primary school classes (where I am it can be at least one third to half the class) so it is tricky with one teacher and one TA (which doesn't always happen either as general TA roles are being cut due to lack of funds).

OP if you go to "Topics" and then look under "Special Needs" you will find a board e.g. "SN children" where posters are more helpful. They will give you info on how you can get an EHCP for your child.

These threads don't appear in active which is why you probably don't know they exist.

The thing is there are so many. Maybe this posters son is actually one of the children that is less of a concern usually.
Staff are usually told key children to look out for, but if the TA and teacher are busy with another child who also needs support they cannot be everywhere

Personally I find them to be very inactive, next to no traffic.

If you are that concerned about school scissors, you also need to be concerned about pencils, rulers, and pretty much everything. School scissors are (should be!) round ended.

So either he is a massive danger to himself, and the ehcp needs accelerating. Or you have - understandably - seen an issue about scissors, but not remembered quite how blunt school scissors are. I don't think his eyes were at risk any more than him having a pencil.

He could similarly poke a sharp pencil into his eye? I’m not sure why you think scissors are a step up in risk, they will be safety scissors with blunt edges.

You are probably not over reacting.
But our school was absolutely rubbish with sen
They basically from reception made out that dd behaviour was parenting etc (hitting, biting etc). At 5 she put a bead up her nose from the floor (even though they knew she was impulsive. She had to be sedated to remove it.
But it is hard for maonstream schools and teachers. They basocally dont see (and to an extent dont want to know what the child might likely do. Because otherwise there would be forms to fill in in reception re behaviour issues and concerns AND those would be taken seriously. Because even when going on trips etc there is no question about whether you feel the child needs closer supervision.
Generally though i think teachers must be able to ignore the worry because the thought/knowing what 30 kids could get up to when you turn around for 1 sec.

But the scissors probably are quite blunt. Does he use any supervised at home?

When there was a childrens centre group here the used to use supposed safety knives for kids chopping veg etc it was a disaster as they were still sharp and several kids got cuts. Thet were also using real tins of beans etc, but they are really heavy woth other people putting babies on the floor near them.
I think people who dont have or havent experienced impulsive kids really dont get it.
Perhaps you could point out that asd/adhd make a child behave 1/3 less their age so he would be like a 4 year old?.

Have you considered adhd ?

Or you could supply his own scissors so you know how sharp they are.
I dont think its is masking as sure but certainly my kid seemed to know things they shouldnt do but still did them but at other times would behave fine so even less reason for the teacher to realise.

If the school hasn’t actually submitted an EHCNA request to the LA, do it yourself now. On their website, ISPEA has a model letter you can use. The process is governed by statutory timescales that can be enforced.

Without an EHCP, the school unlikely to be able to provide TA support full time.

Would there be just as much risk with a pen or pencil going into his eye, if for example he tried to draw on his face?

School scissors are very blunt. I don't think you can expect such a high level of supervision unless dc has a specific TA through ehcp

I would disagree.
I think most staff want any concerns noted so they can use this as evidence for the child needing extra support. As for trips, it is definitely noted who needs extra supervision and if the school aren't able to provide that support, then the parent is asked to come on the trip.

If you feel he needs one to one supervision then you need to push for an ECHP. If you think he could blind himself with scissors then he could blind himself with a pencil or pen. He doesn't have one to one supervision now, so there's no guarantee that a TA on his table could stop him.

School needs funding for that level of need. There's no guarantee that there will even be a TA in every class in Primary School, and there definitely won't be at secondary. Get started as soon as you can.

A number of thoughts -

If he has no EHCP then any support he has can be changed at very short notice
Does he have an IEP or equivalent? (This is an Individual Education Plan, or similar name which is a document written at school level to say what support he needs. They are not legally binding in the way ehcps are)

Many 6yo have cut their hair in a similar way and most would not be aware that there was a danger to their eyes. Most scissors in schools are blunt to the point of unusable because of this.

When you say he has zero awareness of danger that doesn't convey any information to the school. You need to be more specific.

Eg he will run out in front of cars because he doesn't understand they might hurt him. Or - he doesn't understand that scissors are sharp and will stick them in his skin.

I'm sure they are briefed however if he's never done this before how were they to know he needed constant watching with scissors? If he needs constant watching with school equipment then he definitely does need a TA 1:1 but that means an EHCP plan.

There are 29 other children in the classroom and presumably others also have needs. It is generally not thought best practice to have all the SEN children on a table together all the time.

Also school staff are allowed to be sick or have time off. Unfortunately staffing issues can be very difficult in schools when there are so many children to support.

You don't need their permission to start an EHCP. They'll give you the run around so they don't have to fork out the first 6 grand. It's time to start making some noise. It's in his best interest

Just to add an EHCP will take a while so perhaps a social story about using equipment could help? I would speak to the SENCO. You can't demand 1:1 support all the time though but obviously now they will know to watch him with scissors.

It's not unreasonable for Y1s or Y2s to be using scissors without direct supervision. Cutting and sticking is as much an everyday, infependent activity as writing or colouring is. If you think your child does need direct supervision then they presumably need it for many day-to-day activities and you need to start the EHCP process immediately. The class TA could be taken away tomorrow; plenty of Y1 classes only have TAs that take children out for specific interventions.

Even if he has a 1 to 1 they can't be staring at him constantly for 6 hours. In a busy classroom they can only do their very, very best to keep him safe. People are very unrealistic and have obviously never had to track a child constantly in a school environment. Key stage 1 children move like lightening!
He certainly needs an EHCP so.provision can be put in place and a member of staff can be assigned to him. Without one a TA can't possibly be with him at all times , they have other children to work with.