Should school supervise better?

[SupercutSchool]

I really don't know if I'm overreacting. DS 6yo, diagnosed with autism. Have frequent meetings at the school and end up keep explaining the same things over and over. They seem kind and have good intentions, I don't think they're uncaring or unkind staff. I feel like I'm always telling the school he struggles calculating risks. For the past 1.5 years he's been at a desk with a TA to keep him on task and presumably safe, he works well in this set up.

Yesterday, the TA wasn't in and the teacher thought it was a good idea to mix the table groups up to experience working with other people. The TA that was covering and the teacher were circulating around the class. So he wasn't in his usual table set up and had no supervision at times and they were doing cutting and sticking.

So, my son cut his fringe and the other children told on him. Nobody told me I just noticed he has a fringe now. I don't mind about the haircut I care that he had scissors near his eyes. When I told them I'm worried about scissors near his eyes they've told me that their scissors probably won't cut skin and that they'll now be more aware with him and scissors.

My issue is that I've told them he has almost zero danger awareness, it's really scary to me. Every time some accident happens I say "yeah, he's not aware of possible dangers and risks. Even when they're explained, he often won't believe something is actually dangerous." They say they get it. Then something else happens. They have replied to me as if they didn't know something could go wrong with him and scissors. I think "unaware of dangers" should cover scissors? I'm worried if I give a list an accident will happen with something I've forgotten to put on the list or something we've never done at home before.

My second issue is that having blunt scissors banged into an eyeball isn't a cut on the skin. I'm worried he could blind himself or someone else. I'm not worried about his hair or skin vs kids scissors, just eyes. But I feel that the school don't think that is a risk.

Am I overreacting and should chill out?

Or should I try to come up with a list of specific dangers and not just say unaware of dangers in general.

Or should I give up trying to communicate about this and look for a different school?

You need to be applying for an EHCP and fast. Until this is in place, the only funding for TA hours will be funding through the school. These TA hours have to be shared between all children. Even if there IS a TA in your child's class all the time, there will most likely be other children who need intense help at times. Maybe children who need physical help, or even those with learning problems in certain areas. While it is very important that your child is safe, school can't simply not meet other children's needs to keep your son safe.

@noblegiraffe sorry to pick on you but you are the absolute no 1 poster here for teacher woes.

You have come yet again on a thread about sen children and you have yet again given a sarky and rude response.

Op do not trust the school opinion at all. Listen to the parents who have trodden this awful road. There is no sen training, Senco rarely have sen training, take it into your own hands and get him an ehcp.
To be brutally honest they won't help much because no one will read it or have training on what it means But.. In a sea of ignorance and a culture of derision.... It's the best you can do.

There is no sen training, Senco rarely have sen training, take it into your own hands and get him an ehcp.

In my experience there is regular SEN training.

The reality is there is no funding to provide the interventions children need. As this thread shows, two adults cannot possibly watch 30 children at all times.

You're incredibly rude towards school staff trying their best.

"Sea of ignorance" should be "seas of people trying their best, feeling failures because they cannot possibly meet the needs of all children single handedly (and ultimately leaving teaching)".

@SupercutSchool Thank you for your further clarification. It does sound like he needs an EHCP and 1:1 supervision if he's getting injured. It's really helpful to hear how his autism is affecting him in this area.

You have come yet again on a thread about sen children and you have yet again given a sarky and rude response.

Nope, I asked a reasonable question, which the OP has answered.

What on earth? What an awful post.

There's plenty of training g for supporting children with additional needs. It still won't mean a teacher and a TA can watch every child in a class all at the same time and prevent any accidents ever happening.

@Sherrystrull I've got wide experience

So have I. Plus your post to @noble was unnecessary. Her comment was no different to anyone else's and didn't warrant a personal attack.

Just to manage your expectations: An EHCP might not give your child a 1:1 at all times. You might only get funding for part time hours to be used for certain lessons and then check ins, or interventions at other times.

Ignore posters who say schools don't read them though as they are legal documents and schools work very hard to implement them.

It's important to start the process of getting one as whole class TAs become rarer as children go up the school. I would ask to meet with the SENCO.

@Sherrystrull I'm in education and my dc have sen.

What your saying maybe true of your setting but I'm afraid it's the outlier.

@LifedestroyerifYOUletthem Why would you need a teacher to read the whole EHCP? I teach over 12 kids with EHCPs. It's much better to read the relevant parts and actual strategies that work, than reading a 20+ page document. Most of the EHCP isn't information we need (or can remember!).

@SupercutSchool I work in a school and no teachers only read them depending on the teacher... The Senco also have no proper training so they can't give help or tips.
Many teachers are actively derisoury about dc with sen eg adhd child is naughty and so on. There is no sen training in the pgce and if a teacher or staff member had already been in post then to become a Senco doesn't mean they know about it except in the most basic coordinating capacity.
. It's the blind lead the blind

I think yabu. Kids in nursery use scissors and I would say the majority of them won't really understand the dangers of them and they couldn't all have 1:1's.

He either does need a 1:1 or he doesn't, you say he doesn't but if he's not aware of any danger at all then surely he would need one? Because if that was the case there are a whole host of hazards in a school that a child without even a tiny sense of danger could injure themselves or others with.

I teach DT in a secondary school. If he was in my class I'd be writing a risk assessment specifically for him.

I think the (blunt) scissors thing isn't much of an issue, it's the other things you mention. I volunteered on a London school trip for my daughter's year 3 class. We did a 20 min walk along the busy pavements with buses rushing by. In my group of 4 I was assigned a boy who kept intentionally slipping off the pavement into the road. I dealt with it, but even I found it stressful. Your child for trips like these needs to be presumably be assigned a 1 on 1 TA he is familiar with, or you or his dad must attend. If I were you I'd be arranging a meeting and getting that ehcp set up. Take a list of all the past incidences that have happened at school ask how the school will safeguard him from now on. Don't be afraid of being a polite pain, you are just advocating for your child. Your concerns have been brushed off in the past and your child is suffering because of it. Why don't you suggest a 1 page pupil info page you put together that can be handed over to any covering staff, including the key points they need to know about how to keep him safe.

20 page document 😱👀😂.

Ridiculous.

@gek

There is no sen training in the pgce

There is in every PGCE student I've mentored across 4 different universities.

A lot of your statements make it seem like your experience is true of every school, when it isn't the case.

Sorry OP, whilst I understand you are concerned, your son has no EHCP, no funding for additional support, and it is completely unreasonable to expect a TA to literally watch him every single second of the day, when they are employed to support the class as a whole. That isn't fair to the other 30 children. Frankly, if you genuinely don't think he can be trusted with a pencil, you need to seriously be considering looking into getting the EHCP underway and looking at specialist provision for him.

What's funny about that?

It's funny because I read many ehcp documents in a week for older children in secondary and they don't run to 20 pages so I find it amusing that someone who purported to know about them thinks a primary age child would have one reaching 20 pages.

I read secondary ones, ours are often 20 pages or more with the reports attached.

Best thing is a one page summary of stuff I can actually do in my classroom to support the child.

What am I reading the rest for? I'll have forgotten it 5 mins later, it's a waste of time.

Im a SEND parent.
it is AWFUL what schools will do/say to wriggle out of admitting the truth. As often the truth is “we weren’t supervising and we don’t really care” as blunt as that is; I honestly don’t believe teachers are paid enough to care. They are always so so busy and don’t have enough time on their hands to deal with the so called easy NT kids they have, much less the SEND ones!
seriously, send off the EHCNA request yourself, you will usually get the contact info for your LAs SEND “top dog” and you can message them with your findings about the school.
Don’t forget to report this stuff to ofstead in the parent review panel too.
the more SEND parents speak up about the lack of provision for SEND kids, the more the government will hopefully stand up and start paying attention and hopefully start paying teachers to actually care for their students, instead of red tape all the time.

But by that logic, he could just poke anything in his eye?

The school have done very well to give him as much support as they can, especially considering he currently has no funding for it. On this day it was just not possible to provide that level of supervision. You have been told the scissors cannot cut through skin. So they were no more dangerous than him using a pencil or a fork which he presumably uses.

You are very fortunate the school have afforded your child so much unfunded support. If this is a general teaching assistant or even allocated to another child it is highly unrealistic to expect your child to be watched and supported a significant amount of the time. Even in key stage one we now see children with anxiety who need support from teaching assistants as well as children with a diagnosis. Classrooms are immense pressure pots. The volume of paperwork and observations needed to apply for support are highly unrealistic along with all other pressures on the teacher.

Schools awful local authorities are under funding constraints and pressures, you need to be the driving force if you feel your child needs additional 1:1 funded hours.

Teachers want children supported but they triage what they can do in the time available - child protection always being the priority. You have to advocate for your child and make that your priority.

I am glad you're going to start the process of accessing additional support now. It's so important to be proactive as it will take a long time. While of course there are issues everywhere, in my experience the schools try really hard - they just can't work miracles with the resources they have. TAs in our school who aren't 1:1s will float and are often moved class to class around specific needs so relying on this sort of ad hoc cover isn't sustainable.

On a practical note though I personally wouldn't worry about the school scissors. Am frankly amazed they cut his hair - the ones at my kids' school would barely cut paper. I don't think they are inherently more dangerous than any number of other things they'll be using.