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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

To suggest she doesn’t report it? *TW- sexual assault*

86 replies

Waitingroomsally · 15/01/2025 08:35

MNHQ posting: Can we request everyone read the second post from this user before responding to the word 'borderline' as it appears to be derailing the thread.

My friend is emotionally fragile at the moment and has been in therapy for several years as a result of her chaotic romantic life and inability to find stability and calm across all aspects of her life. There is always a drama going on and she is always one conversation away from tears.

Recently she met a man who sexually assaulted her. I am trying to remain objective: it was borderline.* She didn’t explicitly say ‘no’, but he overpowered her and pinned her down and she made it clear that it wasn’t what she wanted. To my mind, it was assault and it was wrong but it can’t be proven. She didn’t go to a clinic afterwards, no bruises or marks and she has no evidence. It is her word against his. She has asked me if I think she should report it to the police ‘so that it can go to trial’. I doubt it would get that far. Conviction rates are low, even in cases that are more clear-cut than this and where there is more evidence.

If I was advising a stranger I would say yes, report it, give a statement, hand over your messages, prevent this from happening to another woman. I am a very strong believer in justice and ending violence towards women. But she is my friend and she would not survive an interrogation. She would not survive the suggestion of being disbelieved. If they logged it and told her there was nothing more they could do, she may not be able to deal with that. In fact, I suspect even the experience of having to give a police statement might be more damaging to her mental health.

I’m sure there would be some feeling of retribution for her personally as well as it being ‘the right thing to do’ but I don’t think she stands to gain anything from reporting this and wanting the police to press charges. She has her very fragile sanity to lose.

It is completely against my better judgement, but are there cases where it is better to walk away and do nothing?

OP posts:
SoNiceToComeHomeTo · 15/01/2025 11:13

It's not your decision, OP, your friend will have to do what feels best to her and your role can only be to listen and support, not advise her one way or the other. I should think that a sexual assault advice line would be her best starting place for some concrete advice about what is likely to happen if she takes certain actions.

Persista · 15/01/2025 11:14

Strawberryfruitcorner · 15/01/2025 08:44

Borderline? Are you fucking joking?

This. 🤯🤯🤯

Persista · 15/01/2025 11:15

Well aren't you an absolute treasure, jeez.
She was raped.

Persista · 15/01/2025 11:16

Screamingabdabz · 15/01/2025 08:51

I’ve learnt over the years that interfering in these things, even with the best intentions, can have unintended outcomes. Maybe she needs this life lesson? Maybe reporting it, even if it goes nowhere, is cathartic? Maybe nothing will ever save her so don’t waste your energy trying to be her safety net?

Wow. So rape is a life lesson this woman needed.
Marvellous.

mummysontheginalready · 15/01/2025 11:18

give your head a shake course she should report him. who knows what he will do next time? groping leads to sexual assault then rape then who knows? sodomising? murder? it all follows a pattern if you look any of the men who have raped and then killed.
to bottle that up will not help your friends MH as a good friend you should support her. Evidence or not that is up to Police to decide. who knows? they may already have a file on him

Original poster
Waitingroomsally · 15/01/2025 11:24

@MissDoubleU Wow, I’m very sorry you went through that experience. Again, I did not mean to suggest that it was borderline rape. I hope the rest of the OP clarified that I DO believe it was rape. This part was admittedly badly phrased and I can’t edit it. This is clearly still an emotive subject for you, so I can only apologise for how that came across.

OP posts:
CriticalOverthinking · 15/01/2025 11:24

I understand what you mean, protecting her is well intentioned and it's a brutal experience reporting, being questioned, not believed and then in all likelihood nothing happening.

I think the best thing to do is let her decide and support her either way.

When it happened to me, I didn't report as I knew there was so little evidence and I didn't seek help at the time so knew I'd never be believed.
I regret it now, I wish I'd gone and been medically seen at the time and reported. But I didn't, I protected myself from being accused of lying or told it was my own fault and that was the right choice for me but I know others who have reported and had various outcomes.

ClockingOffers · 15/01/2025 11:44

I agree with you OP. Support your friend to make a decision but don’t push her into reporting him unless she’s adamant that’s what she wants to do.

Reporting the assault to the Police is likely to cause your friend further distress simply from re-living the experience with complete strangers and it doesn’t sound like she has the strength mentally to cope with that. There’s also the fact she’ll be living in limbo during the time scale involved if it was referred to trial.

Yes, the man is a monster who may well assault someone else but that still doesn’t make it the friend’s responsibility to try to bring him to justice.

AConcernedCitizen · 15/01/2025 11:44

If everything you've said is accurate and there is no additional evidence (messages, admissions, images of injuries etc) they you're right in saying it's unlikely to progress to court.

There is still value in reporting it though. He will likely get spoken to by police, and there's a chance that would be a wakeup call for him. It also might help in a future case if this is a pattern of behavior.

However of your main concern is your friend's well-being, you may well be correct that the process could be just as damaging. Perhaps therapy would be a better option. She can always report later.

x2boys · 15/01/2025 12:02

ItGhoul · 15/01/2025 10:55

Your friend was raped.

You should absolutely not be 'advising' her to report or not report, or trying to steer her one way or another. It's her choice. You can listen to her and let her talk but you shouldn't be trying to influence her decision in any way.

The fact that you think a man holding a woman down and forcing himself on her is 'borderline' just because she didn't say the word 'no' suggests you shouldn't be talking to anyone about sexual assault, frankly.

Just read the Ops replies at lear there are only two of them

JHound · 15/01/2025 12:06

Persista · 15/01/2025 11:16

Wow. So rape is a life lesson this woman needed.
Marvellous.

Show quote history

I read that as being about her choosing to report it?

Chuchoter · 15/01/2025 12:15

Personally I think sexual assault should always be reported but it's not for me to tell anyone else what to do.

Whilst I have every sympathy for this recent assault, it does seem that that her lifestyle is one drama after another and the inability to find stability to find calm is not because she can't but because she won't.

These types of people thrive on the supportive friend or friends rallying around them and stroking their hand and saying, 'you poor thing' etc because they are afraid that if they led a normal life, friends would not be interested in them and would fall by the wayside.

It's a self perpetuating drama with her in the starting role.

I don't think you should be giving her your opinion to report to the police or not as that also is a tactic she will be using, getting other people to make decisions for her so she will never take any responsibility for herself and can always blame someone else if things get worse or go wrong.

I'd take a big step back from this drama llama if I were you.

grapesstrawberriespleass · 15/01/2025 12:17

Borderline? You’re truly disgusting. I’d ask for this post to be removed because it’s made you look utterly terrible. I’d feel ashamed at having written this if I were you.

Didimum · 15/01/2025 12:20

Even if this accusation goes nowhere, it’s important for the aim of building up a record of reports against this man as he will undoubtedly do it again and again and again.

x2boys · 15/01/2025 12:21

grapesstrawberriespleass · 15/01/2025 12:17

Borderline? You’re truly disgusting. I’d ask for this post to be removed because it’s made you look utterly terrible. I’d feel ashamed at having written this if I were you.

Pr,haps read the the.thread or at least the Op,s replies.

ThatRareUmberJoker · 15/01/2025 12:43

JHound · 15/01/2025 10:43

Also what is all this “she did not say no”?

Absence of a “no” is not a “yes”. It literally says she made clear she did not want it he overpowered her and pinned her down.How does that suggest enthusiastic consent.

Edited

That's what her friend told her. She might be thinking what he would say to the police if they called him in. She consented she didn't say "no". Phone records what led to them meeting up was there any sexual messages. The whole thing is tedious how the police work out whether it's worth prosecuting or not. A poster up thread showed a video the police put together talking about consent. Yet they have trouble getting consent from the CPS to convict rapists.

ThatRareUmberJoker · 15/01/2025 12:44

Didimum · 15/01/2025 12:20

Even if this accusation goes nowhere, it’s important for the aim of building up a record of reports against this man as he will undoubtedly do it again and again and again.

I agree women should come forward in case it happens again.

JHound · 15/01/2025 12:51

ThatRareUmberJoker · 15/01/2025 12:43

That's what her friend told her. She might be thinking what he would say to the police if they called him in. She consented she didn't say "no". Phone records what led to them meeting up was there any sexual messages. The whole thing is tedious how the police work out whether it's worth prosecuting or not. A poster up thread showed a video the police put together talking about consent. Yet they have trouble getting consent from the CPS to convict rapists.

Show quote history

None of this negates what I said.

”She consented”.

There is no evidence that she did.

Absence of a no is not consent.

MNHQ
HopeMumsnet · 15/01/2025 12:51

Waitingroomsally · 15/01/2025 08:35

MNHQ posting: Can we request everyone read the second post from this user before responding to the word 'borderline' as it appears to be derailing the thread.

My friend is emotionally fragile at the moment and has been in therapy for several years as a result of her chaotic romantic life and inability to find stability and calm across all aspects of her life. There is always a drama going on and she is always one conversation away from tears.

Recently she met a man who sexually assaulted her. I am trying to remain objective: it was borderline.* She didn’t explicitly say ‘no’, but he overpowered her and pinned her down and she made it clear that it wasn’t what she wanted. To my mind, it was assault and it was wrong but it can’t be proven. She didn’t go to a clinic afterwards, no bruises or marks and she has no evidence. It is her word against his. She has asked me if I think she should report it to the police ‘so that it can go to trial’. I doubt it would get that far. Conviction rates are low, even in cases that are more clear-cut than this and where there is more evidence.

If I was advising a stranger I would say yes, report it, give a statement, hand over your messages, prevent this from happening to another woman. I am a very strong believer in justice and ending violence towards women. But she is my friend and she would not survive an interrogation. She would not survive the suggestion of being disbelieved. If they logged it and told her there was nothing more they could do, she may not be able to deal with that. In fact, I suspect even the experience of having to give a police statement might be more damaging to her mental health.

I’m sure there would be some feeling of retribution for her personally as well as it being ‘the right thing to do’ but I don’t think she stands to gain anything from reporting this and wanting the police to press charges. She has her very fragile sanity to lose.

It is completely against my better judgement, but are there cases where it is better to walk away and do nothing?

Hi all,
Apologies for editing the OP with our thoughts at the top in bold. We hope it's not too confusing and that it's a better solution than removing the word 'borderline' altogether, which was the other option.

ThatRareUmberJoker · 15/01/2025 12:52

grapesstrawberriespleass · 15/01/2025 12:17

Borderline? You’re truly disgusting. I’d ask for this post to be removed because it’s made you look utterly terrible. I’d feel ashamed at having written this if I were you.

MNHQ has asked you to continue reading past borderline. They have seen it and have advised posters not to focus on the word.

ThatRareUmberJoker · 15/01/2025 12:54

JHound · 15/01/2025 12:51

None of this negates what I said.

”She consented”.

There is no evidence that she did.

Absence of a no is not consent.

Edited
Show quote history

This is why police have trouble getting a conviction. There's no evidence she said yes or no it's her word against his. The police will take their phones and read all messages that were sent to eachother.

SerenityNowInsanityLater · 15/01/2025 13:04

We report because it's a crime.
We report because we have a responsibility towards ourselves and other women and girls to do so. Your friend now knows that this man is dangerous. And yes, this behaviour escalates over time.
Ultimately, it is your friend's decision to report, and you need to allow her to make her decision. But I sincerely hope she reports her rape to police.
Men like him will have a pattern. When we report these men, we help break the pattern and reduce risk of harm to ourselves and others. It's important for all of us to be part of the collective engine that puts a stop to rapists/abusers/murderers (it's not unreasonable to lump them together, given the pattern and escalating behaviour we often see with these types of men).

ThatRareUmberJoker · 15/01/2025 13:07

If this man is a prolific rapist her report could help another victim.

DreadPirateRobots · 15/01/2025 13:08

SerenityNowInsanityLater · 15/01/2025 13:04

We report because it's a crime.
We report because we have a responsibility towards ourselves and other women and girls to do so. Your friend now knows that this man is dangerous. And yes, this behaviour escalates over time.
Ultimately, it is your friend's decision to report, and you need to allow her to make her decision. But I sincerely hope she reports her rape to police.
Men like him will have a pattern. When we report these men, we help break the pattern and reduce risk of harm to ourselves and others. It's important for all of us to be part of the collective engine that puts a stop to rapists/abusers/murderers (it's not unreasonable to lump them together, given the pattern and escalating behaviour we often see with these types of men).

Have you, personally, reported a rape as the victim?

Glitchymn1 · 15/01/2025 13:16

I think she would be better off seeing a counsellor, or her GP to discuss this.
Did he use protection, was it discussed, has he broken any other laws. If anything perhaps you could go with her for support.

I would hope she would report it but I can only imagine what she may have to go through. Just be there for her but I wouldn’t influence her either way.