To suggest she doesn’t report it? *TW- sexual assault*

[Waitingroomsally]

MNHQ posting: Can we request everyone read the second post from this user before responding to the word 'borderline' as it appears to be derailing the thread.

My friend is emotionally fragile at the moment and has been in therapy for several years as a result of her chaotic romantic life and inability to find stability and calm across all aspects of her life. There is always a drama going on and she is always one conversation away from tears.

Recently she met a man who sexually assaulted her. I am trying to remain objective: it was borderline.* She didn’t explicitly say ‘no’, but he overpowered her and pinned her down and she made it clear that it wasn’t what she wanted. To my mind, it was assault and it was wrong but it can’t be proven. She didn’t go to a clinic afterwards, no bruises or marks and she has no evidence. It is her word against his. She has asked me if I think she should report it to the police ‘so that it can go to trial’. I doubt it would get that far. Conviction rates are low, even in cases that are more clear-cut than this and where there is more evidence.

If I was advising a stranger I would say yes, report it, give a statement, hand over your messages, prevent this from happening to another woman. I am a very strong believer in justice and ending violence towards women. But she is my friend and she would not survive an interrogation. She would not survive the suggestion of being disbelieved. If they logged it and told her there was nothing more they could do, she may not be able to deal with that. In fact, I suspect even the experience of having to give a police statement might be more damaging to her mental health.

I’m sure there would be some feeling of retribution for her personally as well as it being ‘the right thing to do’ but I don’t think she stands to gain anything from reporting this and wanting the police to press charges. She has her very fragile sanity to lose.

It is completely against my better judgement, but are there cases where it is better to walk away and do nothing?

Would you ever read her posts before commenting.

There is clearly a case to answer and convictions for rape have been secured many years after the fact, so the lack of bruising and marks isn't insuperable. But your sense that prosecutions for rape are often harder on the victim than the alleged perpetrator isn't wide of the mark. Nor is it unreasonable to take the view that your friend has no obligation to stop a violent man from offending again at the expense of her own mental health. Women aren't responsible for men's behaviour.

However, your friend might gain some catharsis from going through the process, because at least that way, he won't just be able to walk away from what he's done. Her local rape crisis service will be able to talk her through the options available to her, with a view to their pros and cons.

This

I do get what you mean by borderline, you're talking in a legal sense of what you can actually prove but you might want to get MNHQ to edit the wording as that doesn't mean what you think it means.

I'd not report it. I didn't when I was very mentally fragile. Court is very stressful even if it gets that far and especially when it is one person's word against another's. I couldn't have coped with it and it doesn't sound like your friend could atm either.

Personally I would explain to her that with no evidence or might not go to court. And she might not get the outcome she wants. I would prepare her for that. But i would also say it will be logged in case he does it again. And actually- how do you know he hasn't done it before and they just need more evidence he's a horrible person? I think if she wants to then she absolutely should and be supported. But just prepare her for all outcomes.

Rather than advising your friend not to report, you should encourage her to speak to an organisation like Rape Crisis and they can talk her through what reporting entails and what's likely to happen. They can also offer her counselling and support. She needs to be able to make her own informed decision.

I don't think it is your place to "advise" either that she should or should not report it. It's an intensely personal decision and your friend should make it for herself.

I did not report and I do not regret it. I do think many people are naive to the reality of reporting and I have heard more than one woman say that the process of reporting and going through the judicial process was as traumatic, or more, as the assault.

But it is her who has to live with it and not you. Direct her to Rape Crisis or another organisation who can help her think her options through rather than "advising" her one way or the other.

I reported a serious sexual assault last year. It was different from your friend's case in that it was historic CSA, but similar in that there was a shortage of evidence, but I wanted to report it for my own sense of closure and in case there were other victims. I don't regret reporting it - it was the right thing for me in many ways - but I completely underestimated the effect the statement giving process would have on me. I thought I would tell my story and that would be that, but in fact you have to tell and retell your story, broken down into smaller and smaller chunks, and drilled down into in greater and greater detail. Everyone I dealt with was professional and respectful, but that process of detailed reiteration is the opposite of what therapists would recommend and I found it impossible to let go of and ultimately very distressing. I now have a diagnosis of PTSD as a result, and the case has been NFA'd anyway, not because there really is no evidence, but because there was a lack of motivation on the part of the police to make the effort to investigate when the likelihood of a conviction was slim. I would always have thought I would encourage a woman to report, but after my experience I would think twice where she was psychologically fragile. It has to be her choice of course, but personally I'd encourage caution.

ETA I had a therapist who had worked with the police and who was able to tell me, frankly and supportively, that he thought it very unlikely that any judicial action would happen as a result of my report. That influenced my decision. But he was in a position to tell me this, and to support me either way, which you aren't really. Pointing your friend towards support for victims and survivors of sexual assault is the best thing you can do for her.

ur description of her sounds very judgemental. Is it possible she is stronger than you think? More resilient than you realise?
She's already endured rape and been able to articulate it to you, wants to report it and see if go to trial. She believes in herself even if you don't.

I get your concerns but she is an adult and the awful thing has already happened. She doesn't need cossetting, she needs you to believe in her.

if she doesnt g there will be n recrd of this-he culd well hve previous/be very likely do agin.she is vulnerable for sure,frgile but regardless of a convictions likelyhod her mral compss is bang on. her word against his.oon recrd may be vital

Well historically I think you are right in that “word on word” rapes weren’t prosecuted. However times are changing. There are new procedures to follow that this is not a reason to dismiss the case. CPS are taking more cases like this to trial to let the jury decide.

Unless there are seriously undermining factors, her case could well go to trial.

That said, from what you say, would she cope with the trial? Does she know what it entails? Does she want to go to court and give the evidence? She can be supported by ISVAs throughout the investigation process.

I would get her to have a look at the CPS website, to help her decide.

She has asked me if I think she should report it to the police ‘so that it can go to trial’.

I think I would gently advise that if that is what she is hoping will come from reporting, it's unlikely.

Recently she met a man who sexually assaulted her. I am trying to remain objective: it was borderline. She didn’t explicitly say ‘no’, but he overpowered her and pinned her down and she made it clear that it wasn’t what she wanted.

I am struggling to see what is “borderline” about this.

That said I support your concern for your friend’s mental health. I know from women around me that reporting rape can be a brutal experience, almost as violating as the rape itself.

Maybe just be as honest with her as you have here. That you do think she was raped, that she is right to feel how she feels but all your concerns and the likelihood of it going to trial. But the decision must be hers.

Also what is all this “she did not say no”?

Absence of a “no” is not a “yes”. It literally says she made clear she did not want it he overpowered her and pinned her down.How does that suggest enthusiastic consent.

I don't think you are wrong about the human effect on your friend. I think it's actually true in a lot of emotionally charged cases - people think the court case will bring some sense of justice and closure, but that's not really the case so much of the time. The law is a very blunt instrument and gives blunt results. And it's more concerned with keeping social systems in order than it is with individuals.

I would tell your friend that you know a lot of cases don't go to trial even when they seem pretty good from the outside, and can be very difficult for the victim even in the best of cases, and suggest she go to a rape crisis or women's center to talk to someone about it. They can give her good advice about going to the police and also put her in touch with some other services which it sounds like she needs.

I think YABU.

Your opinion of her fragility isn’t relevant. She shouldn’t just be written off based on your judgement of her. You’re a lay person.

legal processes are stressful no doubt, however the police can put her in touch with support. Ie trained witness support officers, victim support, women’s aid etc - who can all give her much better advice than you can, as that is what they are trained to do.

So it’s not like her report would be completely pointless. They can explain to her things in an appropriate manner and will recognise that she is vulnerable. Even if the police can’t take it further, she can still be signposted to access support. Plus the intelligence will still be logged against the offender.

rtt

I totally get where you are coming from. What happened to her was assault, totally unacceptable. But you know it is unlikely to go anywhere and you also know how that process will affect her. It is difficult. Just be there for her, and encourage her to access mental health services to turn her dramatic life around (not that the assault was her fault of course but she obviously needs some help navigating self worth and drama free existence)

Your friend was raped.

You should absolutely not be 'advising' her to report or not report, or trying to steer her one way or another. It's her choice. You can listen to her and let her talk but you shouldn't be trying to influence her decision in any way.

The fact that you think a man holding a woman down and forcing himself on her is 'borderline' just because she didn't say the word 'no' suggests you shouldn't be talking to anyone about sexual assault, frankly.

As her friend, you should not be 'advising' her either way.

You should be making all possibilities clear so she can think about them in an informed way.

And then making it crystal clear that when she makes HER choice, you'll be there to support her no matter what that choice is.

Having gone through reporting historicsl CSA and it getting to trial I can honestly say it was the cross examination that did me in I had a breakdown was sectioned I regret reporting it sadly he was found not guilty
im still not struggling with my MH and the trial was 7 years ago

The OP said,

"I am trying to remain objective: it was borderline. She didn’t explicitly say ‘no’,...."

That's not about evidence.

It’s your job to support her. You don’t know what allegations he already has, or what will happen down the line. If she wants to report it it’s your job to be there for her if and when it goes tits up. Telling her not to is wrong.

I reported after everyone - absolutely everyone, including police, told me it would never see court or a conviction. He got a year in jail and 3 other women came forward after that fact. If the very least she does is report it and it never goes anywhere, the next girl - a girl from before coming forward - may very well get believed and it could all add up to conviction.

Men get away with rape every day because women are discouraged from reporting. Yes, it’s a very traumatic process and it’s okay to make her aware of that but if you tell her it was BORDERLINE or that she shouldn’t bother then you are a shit fucking friend and you should absolutely go fuck yourself. I hope you never have your autonomy taken in this way and I certainly hope you never have anyone invalid your very real trauma, let alone someone you call a friend.