To pull son out of nursery for constant illnesses?

[Elisabeth3468]

My little boy turned 3 end of December. He goes to nursery and was just doing 2 mornings and now does 3 and an afternoon. Since November he's been pretty much unwell constantly. I kept him off nursery for a couple of weeks in December as it was my due date for second baby and he was fine and no illnesses, we still socialised. He was eating so well, so happy and looked so healthy.
I know it's common for them to get unwell but this is constant. It's making our lives a misery, he always gets unwell the later half of the week too and usually end up having to try and find out of hours services to get him seen.
He's currently day 4 of the worst virus and temp of 39/40.
I've just had a baby and she's 6 days old so haven't had time to recover and next to no sleep. It's all just too much.
I'm thinking of pulling him out of nursery until the spring or just a couple of months.
Partner thinks to just keep him in as him being in nursery gives me a break and one to one time with the baby. I'd rather struggle and look after both of them than this constant never ending illnesses.
YAIBU- keep him in nursery
YANBU- keep him off and not let him get sick as often

Just to add we go to groups 3 times a week so he would still be socialising.

I think it's obviously feeling particularly difficult because you've got your newborn and are recovering from birth.
But I agree with others that because he missed last winter he's getting all the illnesses now - first winter in nursery is brutal but if you push through then they'll get less ill (frequency and severity) in subsequent winters..
My daughters first winter was really tough but this year she's only been properly ill once and it was just a fever for a few days with no other symptoms.

Baby will get sick one way or another, in my recent experience anyway. DC2 born in June and within the first week my eldest (2.5) had fever and vomiting, awful cough (we think it was covid), her dad came down with it and granny too, while I was locked in bedroom with screamy newborn trying to establish breastfeeding and avoid catching it. It was awful but we got through it, newborn didnt catch that virus but ended up with bronchiolitis a couple of months later (as well as her older sister), but thankfully didnt need A&E treatment (my eldest did). DC1 then immediately got an awful bout of tonsilitis which the rest of us all somehow managed to swerve.

Having DC1 home full time with a newborn would have been hell on earth for me, beyond exhausting and stressful juggling both while trying to figure out breastfeeding and recover from the birth, and I wanted DC1s usual routine to continue during this massive transitional period. Nursery helped us so much in managing the emotional impact on DC1 in terms of gaining a new sibling and how to support her etc. I would stick it out if possible if I were you but you have my sympathy, its a really stressful and anxiety inducing time. Hang in there and good luck with whatever you decide.

Oh this is so so difficult. Sorry to hear it OP.

I second the advice to not pull him out permanently, but perhaps for a couple of weeks until you've had chance to experience him at home full time and for him to recover fully.

Could you consider scaling down his childcare, if that worked well before?

I'm with those who say there's contradictory evidence that building up immunity in the early years has a bearing on illness in school years. My priority would be protecting the newborn baby at this point.

I wouldn't say they are cleaner but there are far fewer children which helps, and they're less likely to get sent home with the first sniffle. It's also a less hectic environment

My first DC went to a cm and never got all these bugs I keep hearing about, I couldn't have worked otherwise. When I became a cm, the mindees were rarely ill. My own Dec and mindees didn't get hit by a tsunami of illness when they started school, either

No it doesn't

Exactly

Again, this has been challenged by other pp as a myth

I have two secondary school aged kids and have no experience of this notion that toddlers
must pick up illness from a nursery setting to “build immunity” or they will do so later
at school.

Both of mine went to baby and toddler groups, village preschool at 3 and then school quoit any incidence of virus or colds that kept them
off school or nursery. They are both very healthy
now with exemplary attendance.

Does he eat well? I’d get him some vitamins and probiotics. Is he good with hygiene? Make sure he washes his hands. Does he get good sleep, sleep is so important to the immune system. I think we do our kids a massive disservice not ensuring they get plenty of sleep.

There are studies that show less incidence of illness in school age children who had attended nursery setting, from 6-13yrs old due to more acquired immunity. It also showed less incidence of asthma and allergies.

That’s what our GP said. I’m not sure I agree with other posters denying that immunity is built by being exposed to everyday viruses.

Well its not as simple as "yes that's true" or "no, it isnt". A healthy immune system learns how to defeat invaders (bacteria, viruses) by encountering them. So yes you're immune system is built up by getting exposure to different pathogens in the form of illnesses or vaccinations (although this immunity doesn't have much benefit for a whole host of viruses that mutate quickly like the common cold - that's why we keep catching them).

However in the immediate aftermath of an infection your body (including your immune system) is depleated. You need recovery time to (gross simplification) gather strength, replace damaged or missing cells, reset everything. If you don't get that time then you can get into a downward spiral where every illness puts out a welcome mat for the next. This is especially true for the very young and the elderly whose immune systems are naturally less robust.
So your toddler getting virus upon virus, infection upon infection, is not good for their health. If they survive (which these days thanks to modern medicine most do, in the past manywould have died) they will indeed be more resistant to infection when they are 5 - but they will grow less well, develop more slowly, suffer more inflammation and probably need a lot more medical intervention in the form of antibiotics whilst this cascade of illnesses is happening. A child who gets a bit of a break between infections will do better, and so will their parents and will still end up with the same level of immunity just a slightly later age

Children are exposed to everyday viruses just by virtue of being out and about with their parents, at groups, at soft play. It’s not nursery or nothing but the wave of illness that comes with nursery is utterly relentless and I do think some children can potentially become unhealthily depleted as a result. In terms of general wellbeing, some DC have issues with diet and constipation that worsen with each virus, each time they stop eating due to a sore throat or sore mouth or tummy ache. And then it becomes ever the more challenging to keep them eating healthily (or eating at all) and before you’ve even managed it the next bug had hit.

Personally I find illness much easier to manage in the older child, who can articulate what’s wrong, be reasoned with and who is a bit more robust than an under 2 or 3 year old.

We had this until I got enough supplemental vitamins into my DS's diet and then he was bulletproof. Have you tried giving him fortified breakfast cereal?
I make biscuits out of readybrek.

It’s better now than being off all the time when he starts school.

He eats really well when he's not unwell!!
So many berries, varied diet. He eats salmon, broccoli, chicken, potatoes. He's not fussy.
But when he's unwell he stops eating completely. In the past 4 days he's eaten a biscuit a day. He's drinking milk and squash. He loses weight when he's poorly too.

Which ones did you use please?
Yes he has weetabix most days

I would keep him in nursery. I think it's nice for him to have a routine and chance to make some friends. While you might take him to groups, at least this means there is no pressure if you are having a tough day to do so and know he will still be busy.

In terms of illness, some children are just more sickly than others. Mine are generally good, and weren't too bad at nursery either (the usual chicken pox and bad colds) but my friends daughter is frequently ill.

My son was the same. And we both worked full time so it was a disaster!
Things got better after he turned 4 and he had 100% attendance in school since he started 1,5 years ago. There is light at the end of the tunnel!

I don't think either decision is right or wrong. I guess just remember that he will have a first winter at school, that you can't pull him out of. I guess baby will be older then and probably bringing back infections from nursery too! Also how would you manage 2 of them at home? Would you take them both to baby and toddler groups, and would they bring back as many germs from there? Or would you kind of isolate? If so, would that have an impact on your toddler's social skills? It seems like a bit of a long-term fix, for a very short term, transient problem for me. Not wrong though per se.

Take him out now to keep the newborn healthy and to keep your sanity, then put him back in in the spring when the viruses are less intense! It’ll probably be easier to have him home full time than to have a short break while he is at nursery and pay for it by being ill for a week!

just bear in mind though that some nurseries have waiting lists and you might not want to lose your spot.

I would pull him out OP. It's not worth the risk of your baby getting very ill. Stay in your own little bubble for the first 6 months. They pick everything up at nursery. I disagree with other posters that they build immunity or that you are delaying the inevitable. In my experience they still get just as sick at school. My eldest daughter is now 8 and has been in nursery since age 1. She still picks everything up and is non stop sneezing and coughing since October. She also got chicken pox a lot worse than my other dcs. Also not to scare you but my two eldest gave my son chicken pox when he was 2 weeks old.

I agree with previous poster that there’s no right decision here , but also I would personally do what other previous poster said about taking a few weeks off nursery for now. My son is 3 and this has been his first winter is childcare and it’s been shit for both of us. He had a stomach bug last week of term in December and now has another one after his first week back!
I wouldn’t make any big decisions right now in early days post birth as you must be utterly exhausted and in survival mode. Spring and summer is definitely better for viruses at nursery, my son was going several months at a time without a cold etc

I'd keep him off for maybe a month while you've got a newborn, there's so many nasty viruses around at the moment! Dose him with Sambucol and give him plenty of active probiotic yoghurt. Fresh air and enough sleep will help too.

My GP also told me that it’s normal they were constantly picked up illness when they started nursery age 9-12 months but would have build up good immunity by the time they started school. Which is what happened. They did catch things of course, but not that frequently. It was tough though and I felt terrible for them, but I had to work. So in your case i’d definitely be tempted to take him up until after Easter (if they’d have space).

I'd keep him in. Going in and out of nursery isn't going to be good for him, especially when he's already had such a big change recently with a new sibling.

Does he just want you because he's poorly or is that an issue when he's well too? If it's an issue when he's well, it's going to be a struggle for you having them both at home. He needs to learn to be comforted by people other than you.