To think the call back into the office is an example of the patriarchy very much alive and well?

[Yestttlo]

And anyone who thinks otherwise is either brainwashed by the patriarchy or isn’t a mother with a huge proportion of child related responsibility on her shoulders? (Or someone who is in a job where they can’t work from home so don’t want to support other women having the right to).

I have worked from home since covid. Been in the office eight times where it was necessary, for instance a company away day or face to face client meeting. I have a young dc and the call back to the office will damage my career progression due to time spent travelling which means I can’t be online longer and because I will be stretched to get household stuff done .. no I don’t mean I clean the toilets during work hours but that I can put a wash on first thing and know I can unload it at lunch, or get cooking done for the evening during my lunch break which means my evening is not chaotic and I can actually rest a little before starting in full force again the next day.

I will be fighting it to the very end. I will make my views clear. I strongly believe that forcing people into offices hugely disproportionately affects women. My work can be done anywhere. Forcing back into offices is a neon sign that the patriarchy is alive and well. Thoughts?

This is utter rot. If your husband did his (rightful) 50% share of childcare, it wouldn't be an issue.
You have chosen to take on loads of domestic responsibility, so why should your employer (and their business and customers) have to suffer because of your lifestyle choices? As a female, I find it so disappointing that you are trying to tarnish all the gains made by feminists, and simply want to revert to some 1950s fantasy.

I think in most cases, the forced return to working in the office is due to people like the woman who started a thread last week claiming she could work from home and care for a very young child simultaneously.
For the thousands of us who were quietly and conscientiously working on the hybrid model before the pandemic, the piss-takers who've proliferated since lock-down are making things quite difficult.
You are being unreasonable to label this as a patriarchy thing though. The circumstances in your family might be that the male is in a role where there's no option to wfh, but that's you own particular circumstances. My DH is freelance so we totally rely on him blocking time in the afternoon to pick up DC as I'm contracted to work-through till its time to log off at 6pm

Absolutely this.

I have young kids and work in an office ( public sector) where hardly anyone goes in. It’s absolutely shite for my career and development. Been there two years now and I’m so far behind where I was when I started a job before wfh was a thing.

Hybrid Is a good balance I think.

And OP, you are infested with the patriarchy if you think housework and looking after kids is women’s work so we have to stay in the house 🙄

ps, move to Local government or civil service if you want to stay at home.

If you started your job during or after Covid and had an agreement to work fully remotely then YANBU.

Anything else YABU. Your employers are enforcing the terms of your original contract. It might not be logical, or good for staff morale, or lead to an improvement in productivity, but it’s their call.

Speaking as someone whose entire career involved a commute, but who occasionally WFH, I know I was more productive and less exhausted on my home days. But the corporate days were important too, especially for new colleagues. A hybrid week would have been a dream.

There are now more opportunities to work remotely. If you think you might be in demand, maybe you could find a new employer who will support you doing this.

Ah yes the irony of complaining about the patriarchy at play forcing women back into the office whilst wanting to do the office job AND the laundry at midday. Women can really have it all can't they?!

You do you OP, some of us are too busy and stretched to deal with ideological wranglings when we're juggling the commute, the housework and the need to earn.

If you don't need to work then don't. If you don't like what your current employer is demanding, focus your energy into finding another job. Plenty of fully remote jobs out there if you put your mind to it.

Urban myth.

How often are they asking you to go back in, OP?

Work will remain important to most people of either sex until food and shelter magically become free to all. And while obviously it’s possible to find paid work without having a ‘career’, work which requires training, qualifications and in which there is the possibility of progression, will generally be more highly-paid, flexible and rewarding.

If you want a work from home role, apply for one or negotiate with your employer in a civil manner without blathering about the patriarchy. It is reasonable for your employer to expect you in the office if you did that before covid. Some people are extra productive working from home, others are complete skivers. Employers are therefore in a very difficult position.

Totally agree OP; the end of WFH appears to come predominately from middle aged men who hate spending time at home and so have decided everyone needs to be in. There is a great video with Rory Sutherland where he explains why businesses are pushing against it even though it’s proven to increase productivity.

And that should be a formal request on an individual basis

I can see where you are coming from OP. I also think wfh is an expectation now for many people looking at jobs — it’s certainly something I would expect flexibility with from any prospective employer. I think some split between office days and home is good for getting out and bonding with colleagues, but if everyone is forced back to the office it will definitely disproportionately affect women. I couldn’t work even 4 days a week without some element of wfh.

I also think it reeks a bit of baby boomer, ‘I spent the 80s in the office’ lark, when some bosses need to see people working physically in front of them. We’ve moved past that and good riddance!

Our productivity as a country is crap and partly due to working at home. We need people back in the office.

You've made a choice about how to care for your children, but I have no idea why you think it's your employers responsibility to facilitate it.

Say what you like and invent whatever theory you want but the truth is that the companies that are asking people to go back into the office are doing so because they have realised that many of their workforce do not do a full days work at home . That applies to both men and women . Someone I know was trying to recruit someone , it was a man in this case and the job was 2/3 days in office /2 out of. He then started saying I can only come in on certain days and on the days he was in would need to leave at 3 and would finish up at home . People since Covid don’t seem to realise that if someone is employing you in a full time 9-5 situation that is when they want you to work , not at 8 pm when your kids have gone to bed . It’s all well and good saying flexible working but if the meetings etc are 9-5 that is when you are needed .

@Floralnomad are you not getting that the 9-5 was established around a male set up where a wife was at home and unemployed because one salary was enough? Times have changed.

If employers want workers back in the office more often it might help if they increased wages in line with the cost of public transport and childcare costs which have increased massively...many people have not had a pay increase yet the costs of going into the office has been steadily increasing. That might help with the morale side of things.

The reason this is so controversial is because there is no right answer.

Different people want and need different things.
Different industries need different things.

Some people want to work from home so they can put the washing on / make the dinner / collect kids from nursery or school / not have a long commute / save money on child care travel and many other reasons

Sone people want to be in an office because they live alone and it’s the only social interaction they get / they don’t have space to create a home desk / it helps their mental health and gives them boundaries / they can get the help and support they need easier and quicker and many other reasons

Employers might want to have people in as they need it and can’t function the business without it especially if client facing. Some might want them back because their staff take the piss and do childcare / washing / make the dinner in work hours. Some might be quite happy with the flexibility it gives and increased productivity on those who work better from home.

Ultimately there is no right answer which is why hybrid works well for so many employers as it gives the best of both worlds.

Maybe you should consider that your way is not the only way.

And if your husband can’t be arsed to support you with the childcare and chores for your family, I don’t see why your employer should

I think those of you suggesting wfh is fuelling the patriarchy have missed the point OP was making slightly - I don’t think OP was saying women need to work from home so they can fit in all their ‘womanly housework’ around their career. She’s saying that it gives the flexibility that parents need that then helps women have a proper career rather than having to fit themselves into a model that was designed for an era in which one parent stayed at home.

My husband switched to wfh during covid and never went back. He had previously had a long commute. The change he made freed me up to work more than I did pre-pandemic because we are now able to share the childcare better without his commute.

It’s also massively helped during school holidays or if one of the kids is off sick. Our older kids don’t need ‘looking after’ but they do need someone around if they’re home all day long. I wouldn’t want to leave an 11 year old alone for 10 hours with a temperature, but I would be able to wfh easily without him interfering at all with my job. Obviously those trying to wfh with v young children are probably taking the piss.

Utterly ridiculous. Why don't you get your husband to find the patriarchy. Let him fight for the right to work from home so he can be an equal parent.
You want to fight so that woman are stuck at home, working full time and doing everything else at home, so men can walk out in the morning and be back in the evening to kids tucked in bed and their hot dinners. Wtf.
Are you OK?

I agree with OP. Feminism is about women having more choices. Because women tend to do more household labour a typical woman's choices are more limited than a typical man's if they lose the option of working from home.

It was a situation forced on us during lockdown but now many think it should be the norm, they tend to forget that s/he who pays the pipier............

Exactly 💯

I wish I could like this more than once.