To think the call back into the office is an example of the patriarchy very much alive and well?

[Yestttlo]

And anyone who thinks otherwise is either brainwashed by the patriarchy or isn’t a mother with a huge proportion of child related responsibility on her shoulders? (Or someone who is in a job where they can’t work from home so don’t want to support other women having the right to).

I have worked from home since covid. Been in the office eight times where it was necessary, for instance a company away day or face to face client meeting. I have a young dc and the call back to the office will damage my career progression due to time spent travelling which means I can’t be online longer and because I will be stretched to get household stuff done .. no I don’t mean I clean the toilets during work hours but that I can put a wash on first thing and know I can unload it at lunch, or get cooking done for the evening during my lunch break which means my evening is not chaotic and I can actually rest a little before starting in full force again the next day.

I will be fighting it to the very end. I will make my views clear. I strongly believe that forcing people into offices hugely disproportionately affects women. My work can be done anywhere. Forcing back into offices is a neon sign that the patriarchy is alive and well. Thoughts?

Single parent here. After covid I wfh 5 days a week. I hated it as it was so isolating. I chose to go back to the office for my own sanity (no patriarchy pressure involved and no co parent to do school runs (as deceased, not deadbeat before i get jumped on here)). Yes it's a juggle with childcare but so nice to be around others again. I also found my career suffered when wfh as I work in a very 'see and be seen' environment if you want people to consider you for projects/ promotion.

If you can fight this to the point of loosing your job and not worry about money, then you can employ a cleaner or housekeeper to do the other things whilst you go to work.

It's really not a problem, you just don't want to do it. Tying yourself to the home and domestic duties IS patriarchy. Asking all employees to spend more time in the office is not.

I hear you. Crazy thing about my place is we were all forced back into the office (albeit hybrid) as apparently more beneficial for us, but the director and manager making that decision both have wfh contracts 😅😅
we are also allowed to wfh when we are sick as well, very convenient for them.

‘Childcare responsibilities’ - your words. What do you think women who work in retail, hospitality, caring roles do? They fulfil their childcare responsibilities without being able to wfh, and while they may envy the opportunities you have through wfh, I don’t believe they resent you for them. And for every patriarch trying to thwart your life choices, there is a matriarch doing the same, just as other men and women will be trying to support you.

This.

Ohhh I'm willing to fight the patriarchy to the point of losing my job(because I can afford to) so I can keep doing most of the housework and childcare duties.

The cognitive dissonance is strong with this one.

A lot of parents have to give up ‘careers’ as a result of having kids, particularly if they are ND or struggling. It was my choice to be in this situation however, so to a point I have to take it on the chin. My OH does a lot of childcare and work round the house but zero organisation. I’m more concerned about the very obvious ageism I am experiencing and have done for the last decade (I am mid 50’s), I was a successful senior manager in my profession, now I can’t even get shortlisted for a PT library assistant role. That’s where the patriarchy is v real as this simply doesn’t happen to fathers. Irony is I can earn more than double my partner in my old profession.

Yeah... Good luck with that.

I disagree. I have seen far more folk skiving in the office. All the coffee breaks, chatting at desks or in the gossiping area. Some folk go to the office for the social life.

I get far more done at home than I ever do from the office as it is a quieter environment meaning I can focus and work without distractions.

This ❤️❤️❤️

I agree that having everyone back to the office for the sake of it, means that those with caring and home running responsibilities (not just women and not just childcare - all caring responsibilites) and those with additional needs are unfairly disadvantaged.
Also having everyone back in the office doesnt mean being more productive.
There are however many other employers who do offer greater working from home flexibility. I go into the office between 1-3 times per week. I cannot imagine an employer not seeing employees at least on a weekly basis. Maybe its time to look for another employer where you can WFH more?

Putting in an alternative point of view, I recently quit my WFH job because it wasn't working, and got an office city job.
For me, my role dictates that I need to know what's going on in an organisation.
I wasn't getting that in my previous role.

Companies either need to get better at including WFH employees or be clear on their WFH policy.

There was a recent article that WFH can damage a woman's career progress. It's depends on your industry but for me it was the right choice. I have 2 children and I actually enjoy my commute. I listen to podcasts and do admin.

What's your agenda? Why is this directed at the patriarchy? You can leave your role if it's not right, like what I did.

Working from home risks women's career progress, says Nationwide leader

Sounds like the patriarchy is closer to home than the office. Speak to your fella about sharing the slack.

We had a similar situation at my workplace when everything reopened after lockdown. My team were extremely reluctant to go back into the office full-time and we had to put forward a case as to say why we wanted to remain WFH. For me personally, I went full-time when we started WFH and if I had to go back in the office full-time, I would have to return to part-time hours. In the end management agreed that we would return to the office for face-to-face meetings every quarter and I also go into the office once a month. In actual fact a lot of our senior management team live outside of the county so it’s a big commitment for them to come into the office and they certainly wouldn’t be able to do it every single day. Some of the team go on a regular basis every week but we determine that wfh for the majority of the time was the best course of action for our team. We proved that we were more productive and in fact, our work life balance improved as well.

Come on, doing the 3pm school run from the office is just about only if you’re part time. I do the morning one and go to the office, but I start late those days and that’s agreed with my boss. Non office days I do the morning one and start on time.

'Prove me wrong' is not a clincher.

It's your proposition. Prove you right.

Unbelievable

WFH predominantly benefits parents, especially the primary caregiver, ergo mothers.
I have a Big Job. My husband has an even Bigger Job. If I couldn’t WFH most of the time, I’d have jacked in my job in c2021. Covid was a game changer for me. Went part time, 50% WFH from home, less travel, more time spent with family.
I hope WFH is here to stay because if I had to go back to full time in the office, I’d very likely resign immediately. Which would be a shame because I love my career. But not enough to compensate for the stress of full time office work with family responsibilities.

I actually hate wfh. With all those little jobs to be done around me at home I can't focus as well on my work. All through covid I volunteered to be in the office. My partner meanwhile runs a company and while they're all for giving flexibility they see the difference in team dynamics and the efficiencies lost when you can just "have a quick chat" with someone in passing, rather than everything being formally scheduled, and believes through trial and error the best compromise is three days in the office two wfh. I'm all for smashing the patriarchy but I don't think it's as simplistic as you're suggesting

It's amazing the call didn't come sooner. Companies have no interest in your children or how you cope. They buy your labour, end of story.
It's only part of the patriarchy in the same way our whole lives are, and that won't change.

That hasn't been my experience at all.

Learning to focus is a skill. I would have found it much harder when I was earlier on in my career or my children were younger. I also have a garden office so that I 'go to work'.
I think the quick chat issue is less of a problem when the whole team are remote. I did struggle with it when I was remote and the rest of the team were in CalTech.
We do have scheduled meetings but we are also available to video call during the day. I'm often pinging my manager asking to have a zoom call because it's easier than email.

WFH has many positives from the employers perspective too. My husband has had a lot of difficulty finding the right people for his department previously. Since WFH came in he has employed people from the other side of the country who have fitted in perfectly. One has since had a child & recently returned to work after maternity leave.
My son also works for a company based in Europe but works from home. It just gives many more opportunities to employees and employers alike.

I disagree.
When my son was at primary school, even though he was old enough to walk home, I'd often schedule my breaks so that I could walk up there (10 mins) to collect him. I got a walk and a little chat.

Well you are very lucky then, companies are more compassionate than in the past, but Companies are there to make a profit they will not make any more accommodation for your circumstances than they have to.

But that's what wraparound care is for - working parents. My boys are in wraparound care every day and it's fine. I work full time and neither me nor my husband work from home ever.