To think the call back into the office is an example of the patriarchy very much alive and well?

[Yestttlo]

And anyone who thinks otherwise is either brainwashed by the patriarchy or isn’t a mother with a huge proportion of child related responsibility on her shoulders? (Or someone who is in a job where they can’t work from home so don’t want to support other women having the right to).

I have worked from home since covid. Been in the office eight times where it was necessary, for instance a company away day or face to face client meeting. I have a young dc and the call back to the office will damage my career progression due to time spent travelling which means I can’t be online longer and because I will be stretched to get household stuff done .. no I don’t mean I clean the toilets during work hours but that I can put a wash on first thing and know I can unload it at lunch, or get cooking done for the evening during my lunch break which means my evening is not chaotic and I can actually rest a little before starting in full force again the next day.

I will be fighting it to the very end. I will make my views clear. I strongly believe that forcing people into offices hugely disproportionately affects women. My work can be done anywhere. Forcing back into offices is a neon sign that the patriarchy is alive and well. Thoughts?

This. Some employers are getting sick of the complaints from service users/customers. 🙄. They want staff back in the office.

Ok boomer (55)

that does not happen any more though. the person you are siting beside is hardly at theyr desk and if they are they are on calls. its done at set times. in our place you have to read hundreds of sop before you even have access to certain systems. you have tests to do and practice runs. to get use to it. you diall in the calls that happen every day these ar with people in different parts of the building. it's huge and hard to get the time to have everyone move to a certain room in budiidng of its avaliable. on tehse meetings you are watching presentations on the screen and discussions are happening. it's actually easier on teams as you can clearly see the screen and can hear people talk which sometimes quite hard in a big meeting room. ways of training and communicating have changed why can't people see that. Young people are defo not struggling in our place
before covid I sat in a desk in front of my boss. he was never at his desk. always at meetings etc. I used to have to wait hours in eve for him to come.back to ask questions and sign documents etc. in the 1st 6 months during covid it was great we actually had calls and talk during work time. docu sign was allowed and I could get stuff signed super quick. It was actually great as I wasn't rushing out the door.
world has changed why can't people get on board with that

Oh that was really clever @neverwakeasleepingbaby. How on earth did you think of that? 🙄

Thanks! 😉😘

You are not wrong OP.
I have at least 6 friends whom had an attempt to revoke their wfh status.
All women in their late 50's.

They pushed back hard.
2 replied by giving notice directly, one went ahead and left much to her clients upset at her employer.
She has had multiple approaches to return but is enjoying her time off.
My other friend is still at home.
The other three have agreed to in person meetings no more than 4-6 days a month max...or they will also start looking around too....at their leisure.

My husband is senior management in big pharma and they are too concerned with hanging onto their highly qualified staff than irritating them with unreasonable requests.

Asking people to go to work is hardly an unreasonable request! 😂

Yes I'm inclined to agree with this.

THIS
I know people who have cancelled childcare due to WFH???? Speaks volumes, how can you care for children while 'working'? Shopping/washing etc etc is something that has to be incorporated into daily life by millions who go out to work, with/without children. Just have to get on with it ( I talk from experience). The issue of who does the lion's share has always been an issue.
I've met people on school runs/allotments/hairdressers/ on coaches all WFH????
Time to come on down and smell the coffee

You realise you are not seeing all the wfh people who are just getting on with it?
Parents have always done the school run whether wfh or from the office. Since part time and flexible hours have been more widely adopted, plenty of people are able to work (from home or the office) and take time out to do other things.

Your comment is a bit like "all Americans are loud". No, just the ones you hear.

I know people who have cancelled childcare due to WFH????

Yup. When my son reached year 5 he could walk home from school where I'd be working in the garden office. I'd stop to make a cuppa and have a chat with him, then we'd go about our afternoon until I finished work.

I wasn't able to do this when I worked in the office, so he went to a childminder.

As a lone parent I could attend conference calls at 9pm from my garden office when the kids were in the house.

You still haven't said where is your husband in all of this? Why isn't he working part time, or batch cook at the weekend/after work, or put the laundry in or whatever else?

You seem to want your cake and eat it and expect your employer to pick up the slack for your husband , well allow you to.

It’s saddening that it’s known wfh has hugely improved the lives of disabled employees so it’s now being disparaged.

I hear you😁, but if it is deemed unreasonable and the staff are doing an excellent job, cannot be replaced easily, then management are saying ok.

One of my husbands staff told him that he wanted to work from Lanzarotte last winter and asked him would he have a problem? He is wfh but might just need a bit of notice for an in person meeting.

My husband told him no problem, he's excellent in a niche position and he appreciated the heads up.

Interestingly he enjoyed working there but found it a bit lonely at times. He's single in his late 50's.

I really think it depends on the job.
My tennis club is very full during the day with wfh men having a game.

It can definitely aid a better balance.

My son is wfh 3-4 days a week and is wondering how he can work that from a sunny spot this summer.

You took the job on knowing it was office based, now you're spoilt because you get the best of both worlds and now you're finally getting pulled back to reality like the majority of us have been since lockdown ended! Unless you are physically unable to travel and working from home is the only viable option, shut up and get on with it. Sincerely working mum of 4 kids in 2 different schools doing all the children admin and I'm married to a nurse

I agree to an extent. I’ve gone back to 2 days in the office a week (policy is 3 days but my boss says nothing) and I actually don’t mind it so much. It’s good to have the face to face time. However, I get so much more done at home and I will work from home more if I have a heavy workload. My boss gets this too but I am a bit of an over worker and he directly sees my work product and gets a lot of positive feedback from clients about me. I guess this helps me maintain my flexible working. From a parenting perspective, I could not do a great job at both work and being a Mum without flexible working so I hugely value it.

I would fight for flexible working if I were you, but I would also not be too rigid. You’ll push people into a corner. Maybe commit to a day or two in the office and see how it goes. If you’re a good worker people will see it.

Parents who work FT have overwhelming not been able to do school runs and someone else had to do it.
I appreciate PT and flexible working is real but WFH is a green light for many to take the P*
A friend openly admitted to me that she moves the mouse 🐭

If your employer wants you to go back into the office, so be it....If you don't want to do this perhaps you should look elsewhere for alternative employment.
Why should forcing women into the office be any different to forcing men. Equality is what we have, cannot cherry pick as and when it suits. If you have a partner could they help with household chores?...l cannot understand why you are moaning about this, if it is too much , you could consider cutting your hours....

I was always able to do the morning school run when I worked on an academic campus. My older child is 25. I get your point though.

Regarding your mouse moving friend - it's how it is - a few selfish people spoil it for many others.

You sound ridiculous OP. Brattish attitude. Why do these types of people think they’re owed such luxuries by their employer? Stop being so entitled and respect the demands of your employer or leave.

you lost me at “the right to work from home is essential for women” … no, it’s either a right for all or it isn’t. You decided to have children and as such, you work for your company.. they don’t work for you. You don’t deserve any more because you’re a mum. If you can’t do your job, which seems is in the office then you need to re-evaluate. Drop hours/days or your husband picks up some slack. WFH makes life easier for all of us, but it’s not a right.

Oh and I’m a mum who works full time.. mostly in the office. I can work from home if I request (not all the time) but I’m needed in the office so I go in.

I do

Employers dictating that they want their staff in the office ? How dare they ?
Yes you can choose I.e. have children or work ! Another entitled middle class mother?
How did you cope before lock down ?

WFH is a privilege not a human right . Maybe change your attitude and negotiate, you might get somewhere then.

Hmmm...I can see how it can disproportionately affect women, but I'm not sure it's a patriarchy thing tbh and it definitely affects other groups as well.

But in my circle most women work in public sector key worker or adjacent roles outside the home and it's the men who are at home keeping on top of the domestic load as their jobs are either not service based, freelance or in one case is a childminder so works from home anyway.

Speak for yourself. I get WAY more done at home and am so much more productive than being in the office. People chat and it drives me mad! I would be tearing my hair out if I had to be in the office all the time.

Some people always take the mickey whether they are office based or home based.

That is up to management to manage and I feel that works better on an individual basis rather than a company wide rule that is difficult for many.

But then again, we are a female led team, maybe thats why we we understand how this works so much better for many people.