Why do so many people criticise vegans?

[trunch]

I'm a meat eater!

However, I don't understand why people criticise vegans so much.

They aren't hurting me and are trying to save animals and the environment.

What's wrong with that?

Surely people should be more critical of me because animals are killed for me to eat?

And? How do you kill something humanely?

People have gone onto these places and found that 1 in 3 cows arent even stunned correctly before being killed.

And the problem for many animals is the environment before the slaughterhouse.
And we're not talking about family farms here.

And how do we justify getting dairy cows pregnant over and over again until they are spent, then sending them to the slaughterhouse?

Even if killing was done right and humane, there animals suffer. 'Oh there's a vet' doesn't really mean anything.

I’m not bothered by other people’s food choices. However, what I am bothered by is a family member, who upon becoming vegan, made this the absolute centre of their personality. The rest of us get told we are animal killers (in those words) and lectured over and over every time this person is present.

So I personally don’t want to hear anything about veganism as a direct result.

humanely just like we’ve done for years quickly @Pinkbonbon

@Sevenwondersofthewoo It has been mandatory for a vet to be present in slaughterhouses since 1995 so that’s not changed since footage was filmed. Some vets have harrowing tales of what they have witnessed in slaughterhouses, it’s heartbreaking. But yeah you keep trying to justify the killing of innocent animals for your meal / sandwich.

If a dog killed a cat plenty of people would call it a dog out of control and vicious. You know it.

Yes I’ll continue to eat my meat thanks as I know where it’s came from and wasn’t the supermarket.

I have to as being a vegan would make me ill as I’ve done the vegan diet and was told by my GP to stop as it was making me ill as in really ill, but you shove your views down my throat thanks.

The dog in question would be pts

You love an elephant but you don't love a cow. Yeah, the elephant is cleverer than the cow, but we specifically bred the cow to be our slave.

I like cows just fine. It doesn't preclude me eating them, that's all.

All this propaganda about how bad it is for farm animals, is mostly just that. I live surrounded by sheep and beef cattle. They have perfectly nice, peaceful lives, and at some point a quick end.

If you want to be pedantic about it, yes, ruminants are given cobalt, a necessary supplement for areas where b12 is not present in soil in sufficient quantities, to enable them to make b12. Just read an online figure that around 73% of ruminants are given cobalt (in order to create b12) due to soil deficiencies. So in aroundabout way, the majority of ruminants receive a supplement to enable them to create B12.

I did not refer to game animals, but in commercial poultry farming, B12 is routinely added to chicken feed as part of a vitamin and mineral premix to ensure they meet their nutritional requirements.

Secondly - I did not make the "all female mammals" statement. Please direct that to the correct poster.

Hello!
For breakfast I usually have oats or granola with almond milk, or brown toast with marmite or baked beans if I have time.
For lunch usually a vegetable soup (sometimes shop sometimes home made) with some tinned beans added for bulk and protein. Or a wrap with falafel, salad and hummus. Yesterday I had cold pasta leftovers mixed with roasted veggies and pesto.
Often I have a coconut or soya latte and an “accidentally vegan” snack like some Oreos or Soreen malt loaf. I like nuts and an apple as a snack too.
For dinners we have recently had a sweet potato chickpea spicy stew with spinach, a mushroom risotto, pad thai (with tofu instead of egg), lentil cottage pie.

But who’s shoving their views now? You were making incorrect assumptions and people have been correcting you.

There is no medical condition that requires you to eat meat. Sorry you didnt know how to eat a balanced diet as a vegan. No shame, plenty of meat eaters don’t know how to eat a balanced diet that’s why the hospitals are full with patients suffering number one killer - heart disease.

Small correction to my post above, I should have said "in areas where soil lacks sufficient cobalt to allow them to make b12"

On a side note, with reference to the biological age and longevity studies, all the vegans and veggies I know all get frequently told they look way younger than their biological age. I do personally think it really does make a difference.

For anyone interested in following a balanced vegan diet, try Challenge22

https://challenge22.com

You see, I don't get the cognitive dissonance in statements like this.

"I like cows but am more than happy to eat them."

How can you "like" an animal, but be prepared to have it killed on your behalf, and then eat it? Just weird.

Not trying to be provocative here, just find it baffling.

Yesterday:
B: porridge with oat milk and banana and half a grapefruit. L: peanut butter on whole grain toast, bowl of home made veg soup. D: lentil shepherd's pie with brocoli. Snack: coconut yoghurt with berries.
My dinners are not that different from the usual family menus except I substitute beans, nuts pulses for meat. So I might make a nut roast in place of beef (recipes on line) bean chilli (no mince obvs) lentil curries, bean burgers etc. I do cook a lot from scratch as don't care for substitutes much, but its very quick and easy when you don't have to faff with meat.

As a vegan can I give you my perspective on this. For the record I have never ever lectured my family on animal farming, cruelty etc. But I can totally see why others do.

The thing is, when you become vegan, the only way I can describe it is like you’ve left a cult, and all your family and friends are still in the cult (it’s just an analogy). You have realised how awful farming is, seen how the animals suffer, etc etc (not going to lecture here either!) and you want everyone to know! You didn’t know, and now you do, and it’s suddenly shocking and appalling that people don’t know! Why doesn’t everyone know this?! Everything would be different, if these good people, kind people that you love, knew and cared in the same way you do.

And it’s incredibly hard for some people to accept that you can’t influence people, and that some people who will always be good kind people that you love will never know or care like you do.

But you have to remember that you were them once too and nothing would have changed your mind either. 10 years ago I’d have laughed at the idea of being vegan, I loved cheese!! No amount of vegan ranting would have changed that.

Personally I accepted pretty much straight away that I’ll never convince anyone to see animal welfare/ farming / veganism the way I do so I won’t try as it’s just upsetting for everyone. That’s why it feels culty, as soon as you speak out about it you’re looked at as a troublemaker.

Don’t get me wrong I still wish people would abstain from animal products. It would be a much better planet if we didn’t abuse it so. But I know yelling at my aunt about pigs being slaughtered isn’t going to help.

"I like cows but am more than happy to eat them."
How can you "like" an animal, but be prepared to have it killed on your behalf, and then eat it? Just weird.
Not trying to be provocative here, just find it baffling.

Pragmatism, really. And I'm not really upset about things dying as long as it's quick and humane.

The same way farmers can care carefully for their livestock, and genuinely feel affection for them, but be pragmatic about the end result.

@macaroniandcheeze I agree with you about trying to convince people in real life (not talking about this thread, which was opened to discuss veganism and so is a valid space for debate) - it doesn't work, unless they are somewhat open minded about it.

However I think people are influenced in different ways - when they see the health benefits, for example. Non-aggressive ways. Veganism being "cool", benefits to environment, and also when they see that you are a proponent of kindness and so on - these are the things that catch on. Hence we've seen such a shift towards veganism in recent years. These are ways to influence people which work way better. Mostly leading by example.

On another note I do think some of the videos about slaughterhouses also really do work - but will you find anyone prepared to watch them? Unlikely. And pressurising them to watch them often puts them off even more.

@Hunglikeapolevaulter I do understand your point, but I don't think any of the deaths are "humane" though. It is not possible to "humanely" slaughter an animal. Even if the cow was stunned beforehand or whatever. Nor the methods of artificial insemination, taking their babies away from them or whatever - I believe that's another point of cognitive dissonance.

I’m not reading further, because this post seems to me to have delivered the final correct and nuanced statement. @BogRollBOGOF thank you.

I agree, being vegan feels like you’ve just stepped out of a cult / the matrix

In the video ‘101 reasons to be vegan’ the way James Wildman shows how easy it was to manipulate his class in the first few minutes was just unbelievable

Yes I agree, there are better ways to influence. I think a lot of younger people are vegan for the environment which is great.
Young lads making veganism cool like Plant Boiis on insta.

The problem with veganism being cool is that the next month it won’t be and then you get news reports of the next big diet or that the vegan “trend” is in decline which is upsetting for most vegans who view it as more than a diet or a trend.

There are also some amazing vegan althletes like Fiona Oakes (world record holding marathon runner) and Patrick Baboumian (strongman).
Documentaries like Game Changers are brilliant with a focus on physical health.
I cannot watch the animal abuse documentaries/ exposes so could never ask someone else to! But even when they’re exposed in the news I’ve heard people say oh yes it’s so awful what they did to those cows but I can’t go without my yoghurt!

Personally some of my friends have suggested cutting back on meat and dairy because they’ve seen me do it for a few years, not suffer and actually become fitter and healthier. Leading by example is great.

I find the polarisation and lack of nuance in these situations frustrating sometimes. There are militant vegans, and there are also those who eat a carnivore diet. The vast majority of us, including vegans and meat eaters, are getting on with life quietly, somewhere in between.

I eat animal products but I know I need to eat more plants for my own health and climate health. And with the speed at which the climate and NHS is deteriorating, this needs to happen asap.

But I don’t want to join a culture war. I will quietly evolve my diet and a lot of my friends are doing the same.

@macaroniandcheeze sorry I was not implying you would make people watch those videos - just came out as part of my ramble! :)

I know what you mean about the cool thing - there's always something new that goes in and out of fashion - but IMO I will always think it is cool to be vegan, whether in fashion or not. But yes it should not be treated as a trend, definitely.