Page 4 | The flaw in the traitors

Dumbles · 2025-01-08T22:17:30+00:00

Not sure if this has been discussed before as it’s my first time watching the traitors! Every evening the traitors name three possible people who they might murder. Then to keep up suspense for the viewer the two who aren’t killed come in last the next morning at breakfast. Why don’t the faithful realise from previous series that the last two to return are also faithful? Then from a process of elimination they can narrow down the traitors. What am I missing? YANBU - it’s a clear plot hole YABU - there’s more to it

BigSilly · 13/01/2025 10:19

.. And why would the traitors choose to recruit rather than murder?

BigSilly · 13/01/2025 10:22

I would look for who always seemed most tired in the morning from having to go back and film the traitors meeting.
And also is the letter always left in the same chair?

fanaticalfairy · 13/01/2025 10:48

Ace56 · 10/01/2025 13:59

Yes I really like The Mole! I think it also makes more sense as the mole is secretly trying to sabotage the missions. I think it would be much better if they had to do the same in the Traitors.

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Agree

ElaborateCushion · 13/01/2025 10:50

u3ername · 13/01/2025 10:06

It's all edited and that's fine but there are flaws with this for sure

How are they expected to solve a mystery if there are no clues whatsoever. The traitors should be asked to sabotage tasks etc so the rest can logically deduce who might have done it.
The number of traitors is too small. There should be more of them from the very beginning and there should be no recruiting. That would make it really worth to traitor-hunt. As it stands, they are just being replaced and they always reach the final.
In the current format there's no point in eliminating traitors. You just have to try and stay in the game and only act on suspicions at the end.

It's not a logic, reasoning game as such. It is just about how do I not get voted out and how do I stay under the traitors' radar. And as everybody is just concerned about saving their own skin, the whole thing becomes very random. They banish anybody and everybody as long as it's not them.

It's good tv for now, but it's not a reasoning/ skills game.
I do hope they'll keep working on the format.

On your second point, over the weekend I've caught up with the "uncloaked" programme and it's been quite telling that quite a few of the murdered/banished had suspected that there was 4 traitors. This is the first time I've watched it, so I have yet to catch up on earlier series (though will once this one is over). Is it always 3 traitors from the start? Have various other series/countries changed it up?

I do agree though that the traitors haven't had the opportunity to sabotage any tasks (yet). The only thing people have to go on is suspicion and reading each other's attitudes and body language. Hence why Kas went and made a point of using the most ridiculous accusation levelled against him as his parting shot.

fanaticalfairy · 13/01/2025 10:51

u3ername · 13/01/2025 10:06

It's all edited and that's fine but there are flaws with this for sure

How are they expected to solve a mystery if there are no clues whatsoever. The traitors should be asked to sabotage tasks etc so the rest can logically deduce who might have done it.
The number of traitors is too small. There should be more of them from the very beginning and there should be no recruiting. That would make it really worth to traitor-hunt. As it stands, they are just being replaced and they always reach the final.
In the current format there's no point in eliminating traitors. You just have to try and stay in the game and only act on suspicions at the end.

It's not a logic, reasoning game as such. It is just about how do I not get voted out and how do I stay under the traitors' radar. And as everybody is just concerned about saving their own skin, the whole thing becomes very random. They banish anybody and everybody as long as it's not them.

It's good tv for now, but it's not a reasoning/ skills game.
I do hope they'll keep working on the format.

Point 2.

The show NEEDS a traitor in the final, otherwise viewers won't be interested.

There's literally no point in finding traitors early in, as yes, they'll just get replaced, and if needed by production they'll force a traitor by saying "be a traitor or get murdered".

It's almost guaranteed,.as a faithful in the final, one of the people is a traitor. When it's two of you, vote the other one off!

But yes, they need a traitor sabotage in taks, a bit like they did with the gunpowder task, I was exited thinking the traitors would be able to be "caught"... But also, that was literally one task

fanaticalfairy · 13/01/2025 10:52

ElaborateCushion · 13/01/2025 10:50

On your second point, over the weekend I've caught up with the "uncloaked" programme and it's been quite telling that quite a few of the murdered/banished had suspected that there was 4 traitors. This is the first time I've watched it, so I have yet to catch up on earlier series (though will once this one is over). Is it always 3 traitors from the start? Have various other series/countries changed it up?

I do agree though that the traitors haven't had the opportunity to sabotage any tasks (yet). The only thing people have to go on is suspicion and reading each other's attitudes and body language. Hence why Kas went and made a point of using the most ridiculous accusation levelled against him as his parting shot.

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Well, they did, in the gunpowder task.

fanaticalfairy · 13/01/2025 10:52

BigSilly · 13/01/2025 10:22

I would look for who always seemed most tired in the morning from having to go back and film the traitors meeting.
And also is the letter always left in the same chair?

Ah, they're all tired after long days and not sleeping well,

fanaticalfairy · 13/01/2025 10:55

SelectedStories · 10/01/2025 16:31

DH is obsessed by what we can see of the food, and keeps saying 'Those croissants look like shoe leather' and musing on where the nearest fresh croissant is available to a catering crew in a castle somewhere vaguely near Inverness.

I did imagine they had a more substantial breakfast first thing in the hotel, as they're clearly not hungry for the on set one and are just drinking juice and fiddling with the odd croissant. And obviously the whole thing would be rather less dramatic if everyone was horsing into their sausages and eggs and ignoring the door. 😀

I know lunch is an opportunity for people to chat and plot in small groups but I couldn't handle eating off my lap in an armchair while theorising about strategies and tells.

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They don't really want people eating and drinking for continuity reasons. It's much easier for editing!

u3ername · 13/01/2025 11:17

@fanaticalfairy
Yeah, there is no point in eliminating traitors in the current format as production keeps making sure there's at least two of them though recruitment, etc. while also saying the aim of the game is to get rid of traitors so the faithful can share the money at the end.
I think it will still be good tv if it's only faithfuls in the final, simply because the contestants will not know for sure. Production can always make up a reason as to why there was no murder (as they previously have done).

If it starts with more traitors, no recruitments, than it will be more exciting as the chance of finding traitors will be bigger, the clues on a certain person will stack up (as they would've been a traitor from the start).
Trying to pick two out of that many is near impossible especially as all they have to go by is a gut feeling.

The show can really do with a lot of rethinking and improvement to turn it into a real murder mystery. Everything is just left to luck and randomness as it is, at the moment, isn't it.

Hipalong · 13/01/2025 11:26

ElaborateCushion · 13/01/2025 10:50

On your second point, over the weekend I've caught up with the "uncloaked" programme and it's been quite telling that quite a few of the murdered/banished had suspected that there was 4 traitors. This is the first time I've watched it, so I have yet to catch up on earlier series (though will once this one is over). Is it always 3 traitors from the start? Have various other series/countries changed it up?

I do agree though that the traitors haven't had the opportunity to sabotage any tasks (yet). The only thing people have to go on is suspicion and reading each other's attitudes and body language. Hence why Kas went and made a point of using the most ridiculous accusation levelled against him as his parting shot.

Show quote history

They were trying to sabotage the gunpowder plot. And people thought a faithful was a traitor because they looked like they were sabotaging in the boat task (they weren't)

Suzuki76 · 13/01/2025 16:48

Recruitment is desirable because the faithful don't know if the traitor they catch is original or recruited. I think if they assume they have been murdering people all along it can throw them off the scent.

Like if they now recruit Freddie and he gets caught they will be looking at the murders from the perspective that he may have been deciding on who should go. Paying attention to who he voted out etc.

fairytailcat · 13/01/2025 17:08

It's a highly produced show. The narrative is controlled by a production team

It's edited and filmed over hours. We just see what they want us to see

They eat breakfast at their hotels and spend hours filming the breakfast scenes. They go over and over with different orders

There's no way there wouldn't be any traitors at any point. The producers can change the
Rules at any time

The roundtable bit takes hours to film. They vote and vote until there's a consensus

fanaticalfairy · 13/01/2025 17:14

u3ername · 13/01/2025 11:17

@fanaticalfairy
Yeah, there is no point in eliminating traitors in the current format as production keeps making sure there's at least two of them though recruitment, etc. while also saying the aim of the game is to get rid of traitors so the faithful can share the money at the end.
I think it will still be good tv if it's only faithfuls in the final, simply because the contestants will not know for sure. Production can always make up a reason as to why there was no murder (as they previously have done).

If it starts with more traitors, no recruitments, than it will be more exciting as the chance of finding traitors will be bigger, the clues on a certain person will stack up (as they would've been a traitor from the start).
Trying to pick two out of that many is near impossible especially as all they have to go by is a gut feeling.

The show can really do with a lot of rethinking and improvement to turn it into a real murder mystery. Everything is just left to luck and randomness as it is, at the moment, isn't it.

It's just werewolf/mafia but you don't know how many traitors there are. It works fine for what it is.

xCharlotteT · 20/01/2025 14:20

ive said this since the last season and this season I am even louder about expressing how ridiculous it is! (even though I love the show) and they dont film it multiple times because I googled it and a traitor 'legend' debunked it by saying a traitor came in last once.. ONCE! in season 1 .. its such a flaw in the plot x

fanaticalfairy · 20/01/2025 15:28

xCharlotteT · 20/01/2025 14:20

ive said this since the last season and this season I am even louder about expressing how ridiculous it is! (even though I love the show) and they dont film it multiple times because I googled it and a traitor 'legend' debunked it by saying a traitor came in last once.. ONCE! in season 1 .. its such a flaw in the plot x

A traitor came in last this series too.

Pozz · 09/01/2026 23:14

Theredfoxfliesatmidnight · 08/01/2025 22:36

There are so many flaws in The Traitors.

-No contestants ever watch previous series and learn from them.

All the Faithfuls prioritise "feelings" about people particularly "gut feelings" rather than any other glaring objective practical evidence
None of the faithful ever believe the Traitors might work against each other, despite common sense dictating this might be the case, and previous series evidence that this often happens
The Faithfuls all seek evidence of a traitorous/nasty nature to identify the Traitors despite the fact all they've done is receive a tap on the shoulder. No inherent evil or personality disorder required!
They all fail to recognise that keeping quiet and flying below the radar can also be a tactic of a Traitor, even though this is a really obvious course of action. They seek a devil they can "see" instead.

I could go on! I watch this show because I think it's a great case study in how poorly our feelings and opinions serve us, as human beings. And how devoted we are as humans to putting feelings (which really mean nothing and are demonstrably unreliable) over actual practical objective evidence in social situations. It makes you wonder how we ever survived to this point in time at all, given that our collective judgement is so weak when it comes to each other.

Completely agree. I’ve thought about this a lot. Also confiding their ‘friends’ about their suspicions even though they don’t know if they’re talking to a traitor.