The flaw in the traitors

[Dumbles]

Not sure if this has been discussed before as it’s my first time watching the traitors!

Every evening the traitors name three possible people who they might murder. Then to keep up suspense for the viewer the two who aren’t killed come in last the next morning at breakfast.

Why don’t the faithful realise from previous series that the last two to return are also faithful? Then from a process of elimination they can narrow down the traitors.

What am I missing?

YANBU - it’s a clear plot hole
YABU - there’s more to it

Loads of people are thinking that don't worry

It will mean the group will think they've tried to kill someone with a shield. Which could be a problem or not

That’s valid as a traitor can’t kill a traitor. Never thought of it either.

I think sometimes they dint want to know. They just gang up on someone, often people they don’t like for some reason.

i felt sorry for Kaz, that was a shit reason, of him being a doctor, and they just ganged up on him. I think they sometimes don’t even care if it’s a traitor, as they don’t know, they just decide to eliminate someone they don’t like, they even isolated kaz.

often I think they try to pick on someone so it’s not them,

I think they just get very paranoid in there! They just banished someone for having a proper job ie a doctor as that would make him a ‘good’ traitor’ apparently! Idiots.

they don’t know which 3 have been selected for ‘murder’ so perhaps it’s not obvious to them that the last one’s coming in were on the hit list and they do mix it up…

I felt so bad for Kaz when he tried explaining that he can't actually play the game properly because he wasn't being included in discussions.

The last two to arrive are not necessarily going to be faithfuls they could include one or more Traitors.

"There's honestly very little opportunity to use logic or reason. People go on feelings because that's really all they have. "

Ooh I don't know about this. I feel like I've seen lots of instances where there is compelling practical evidence which is ignored in favour of "gut feelings". For example the recent round table where the sister, in tears, said she thought her sister was the traitor. So, a person with 25? 30? years intimate and personal knowledge of this person saying they believe she is a traitor. Someone who is actually crying when they say it. Who is breaking the familial bond of loyalty and trust to say this, betraying their sister. But no everyone else knows best based on their "feels" of having known her for 5 minutes 😁

The only logical conclusion to be made from the sisters betrayal, if the faithfuls DIDNT believe the accused was a traitor, would be that the accuser was a traitor herself, trying to misapportion blame. But no faithful even considered that, and it was just swept under the carpet. This huge out of character family betrayal based on 25 years + knowledge of the person, and the dynamics of that, just ignored.

I feel like there have been many instances like this but I haven't watched previous series close enough to remember them exactly!! Maybe I will rewatch and come back.

Oh yes the good old "you save people by day so it makes sense you kill people by night" argument. (Edited to add; this is what he was accused of, verbatim). Just absolute rubbish based on nothing whatsoever. No common sense or critical thinking applied at all.

But it does show how humans behave when thrown into (in this case fake) survival situations. Bonding with a trusted group that has your back instictively becomes more of a survival priority than identifying the aberrant person. Nonsense arguments like the "Harold Shipman" one outlined above causes trusted allies to bond with you. This is more important to group survival than removing an intruder straightaway.

I'm probably far too invested in this show but the 'late faithfuls' thing is a myth that's been debunked by former contestant Ivan on Twitter:

https://x.com/IvanBrett/status/1874826871747330342

Basically, in episodes 3, 5, 6 and 11 of the last series, a Traitor was amongst the last three to arrive at breakfast.

I am tempted to send this to The Rest Is Entertainment but I haven't yet.

That's a rare example of having someone who would be in a good position to pick up changes so there's some logic there, but even then she said she was only "60% sure". In the overwhelming majority of cases, there really isn't anything concrete that you can reason from, so people come up with reasons because they've got to decide somehow.

Jaz clocked Paul and Harry because Paul repeated something to Jaz that Jaz had told only Harry...and Jaz realised that they had left the castle straight afterwards and Paul had come to him with it first thing the next day. He realised that the only way Harry could have passed this on to Paul would be if they had met at a Traitors' turret that evening. And he was right, of course. But he was careful not to let on to Harry that he knew. That was another example of being able to use reason, but again, it was rare. I'm still not over Harry winning after cocking up like that (it's a big blunder!) and Jaz being SO GOOD at staying in and keeping his powder dry until the end. Harry had no idea Jaz was on to him until that moment at the firepit!

I thought that round table was the best and good on Maia. Armani was so taken aback that she couldn't defend herself. If she'd had time to think she could have easily said 'yes I've been suspecting you too as you're behaving out of character'.

At least some of the group listened to Maia, otherwise you questitn the intelligence of the faithfuls😆

Yup he was being bullied. They forgot it was a game and they ostracised him.

I can't stand Joe. What a horrible bully.

I think there's a certain type of man who badly wants to be a Traitor and gets super arsey when he isn't but knows someone else is. Everyone wants the upper hand in the game and almost everyone wants to be a Traitor, but some people find it easier to accept than others when they're not.

It was awful. He was such a lovely bloke.
TBH that little clique are thick as mince, that is lamb mince as they all follow each other like sheep.

Good luck Kaz. We see them for what they are and I look forward to them being booted off with as much compassion as they dished out.

They all fail to recognise that keeping quiet and flying below the radar can also be a tactic of a Traitor, even though this is a really obvious course of action. They seek a devil they can "see" instead. Seem to remember that's how Alyssa in s1 was caught.

Wilf helped it along...

It's really frustrating to me how they keep gunning for Anna and Freddie when it's so obvious it's Linda, Minah is playing a blinder, and I genuinely think unless Linda throws her under the bus she will make it to the end. No one suspects her at all!

Anna- didn't tie the knot of the boat up correctly, that's really her only crime.

abd Freddie- said he hopes they don't get it, which is actually quite a faithful thing to say really because if they don't get it they're all up for murder and it gives him a higher chance of surviving the night. If they did get it, he'd had had a 1 in 5 chance of being murdered. If they didn't he'd sleep a lot better. Yes it wasn't a very team player comment. But it makes total sense to hope they rest don't get immunity

they keep gunning for Anna and Freddie when it's so obvious it's Linda

It's obvious to us because we already know and are getting the edits and camera talks that show it. In reality, with 18 people or however many are left, with tasks and conversations etc all day, it's not obvious. If it were, they'd have got her!

Yeah I suppose it's easy to say sat at home watching, I imagine the stress of expecting to go home everyday at some point whilst also trying to watch everyone's every move would be really hard

I think it's easy to underestimate how hard it is to be "on" that much, all the time. Imagine when you had to go to a wedding or work event and you had to be "on" and presenting only a certain side the whole time. Now imagine doing that every day for several weeks, with a bunch of strangers, for TV with no idea how they'll edit it, carrying out very physical and mental tasks designed to fuck with your head every day, while also knowing there are Traitors in there looking to murder and manipulate and really not having a clue who they are. You're not seeing an hour of edited footage a day, you're with this big group from early morning to late evening, all the hustle and bustle and conversations everywhere among everyone.

In those circumstances, I don't think many of us would get the right person too quickly and stick with it. And if we did, it would probably be more luck than anything else, and maybe a stubborn personality.

I don't get why the Faithful are bothered about unmasking Traitors at all in the first half of the show. If traitors get depleted they will just recruit, and the remaining Faithful are then back to square one, with a tougher job trying to identify newbie traitors. Better to keep suspected traitors in longer and be more sure about who they are later in the game.

If it were realistically possible for them to find all the traitors before the denouement then it would be different, but it all seems to be made up on the fly to keep the numbers balanced as prescribed by the format.

We still watch it though!

Watching it, knowing who is who, I find myself wanting to shout at the screen 'don't be so stupid, Freddie wouldn't be able to carry off being a traitor' etc etc. I do wonder though, if we as viewers didn't know who was who, whether we would be any better at spotting the villains. What we see is so carefully edited, and we are all in the know. It's fascinating to see how in the dark we all are about other people and their motivation. I fear for Fozia - too clearly intelligent!

I think it's all down to clever editing. The three "potentials" always come in together, but they're not necessarily the last ones to enter the room. It's just edited to look that way.

Someone will say "who's left" or "who's missing" but you're not necessarily seeing that comment in the context of who's actually walking through the door.

It really would be a massive flaw otherwise.

I don't think it's as good as The Traitors but there's a show on Netflix called The Mole which is a similar concept but the viewers don't know who the mole is until the final episode. I'm never able to work it out!