Talk me out of teaching

[Avaricii]

I don't enjoy my job. I've drifted into something that doesn't fulfil my need to feel like I'm making a difference. It pays ok.
I'd like to teach secondary maths. I think I'd be great at up to GCSE and have a relevant degree. But all I hear is that teaching is so stressful. What I don't get is why it's more stressful than any other stressful job? I'm stressed every day at work now so at least I would get a less stressful summer with my still primary kids who I feel are growing up fast at camp or at after school clubs.

There are a lot of vague "i wouldn't go into teaching. I hated it and left stressed"

But from those who have given reasons it seems to be.

• shitty SLT (which you can have in any job and aren't everywhere)
• being undervalued (again could be at any crappy workplace)

-kids that are abusive (but then others saying that the kids are the only good part)

• working more than 9-3 (playing catch up in the evenings and weekends. But I work 8-6 with a 1hr commute at each end so I don't see this as Big negative)
• not being able to switch off. Although others who have been positive say that this is a necessary skill to get through a teaching career.
• poor pay.

If there are any I've missed Let me know!

All are really valid points and worthy of working out what I can handle. I think shadowing a teacher also makes a lot of sense.
When I hear 'kids just want to be youtubers' I get that. But then I start to think of ways that maths can be relevant for youtubers. And maybe that's naive? And there is really no time to make maths interesting and fun within the curriculum now?

@RhaenysRocks Your experience definitely seems like the exception. I’m assuming you are primary? 169K members of one FB group looking to get out all experiencing similar says it all. There were around 100 people on my teacher training course 20 years ago. Less than a 10th of those are still teaching. Unfortunately it’s not a case of ‘my experience’ it’s pretty much the experience of the vast majority of us, especially in secondary.

Primary teacher in Ireland and it does seem v different from the horror stories I read about here wrt UK schools. The stress/tiredness comes from the fact, I think, that you're not just getting through your work day and doing your work, but you must bring all your students along with you - and many will resist. You're making literally hundreds of decisions each day and you've to customise how you deal with different students and situations as you go. No point saying this is what I expect, if the child is unable for whatever reason, you have to get creative on the fly.
Saying all that, while I am certainly tired at the end of the week, I can honestly say in many ways, I've never worker a day in 20 years. It's not a bother heading back to Swptember, to Monday etc. I genuinely enjoy my job. I am incredibly interested in the psychological side of it as well as being really passionate about education and learning. I loved school myself.

In my school, GCSE maths is being taught by a computer science teacher, a primary teacher and 2 external supply. I’d love someone to be maths trained and be able to teach my kids confidently at GCSE.

Ask your local state school if you can shadow for a week. It will probably open your eyes. That said, I hear from a couple of ex teacher friends that Maths is in such high demand these days you might hit lucky, do your training year and your NQT year (or whatever it's called now, early career?) and then get a nice easy maths tutoring job online.

Just to illustrate my point, these sorts of comments, that I have lifted from posts here:

“expectations to be switched on all the time- emails coming in 10pm on Sunday”

”expectations to be to arrive early and leave late, leaving at 3pm is frowned on”

are only problems if you are working to please management. Goes back to what I’m saying about teachers measuring their success and competency based on the opinions of their managers (I have been one of these teachers - so I am speaking from experience).
If you take another public sector role, paramedic say, I imagine that a lot of if not most of the daily decisions are made based on knowledge and training and on what will work for the patient, rather than based on what the manager will think of you and say about you in the next team meeting.

That’s why teachers are not treated as ‘professionally’ as they used to be.

I really think the teaching unions need to stop focusing on fighting for pay for a while and instead focus on working conditions and professional standards of practice.

If teachers stopped caring about what their headteacher thought about them leaving at 4pm, refused to answer their emails on Sundays and stood up to bullying, we might see a change. But they need to do it en masse, supported by their unions.

That's right - they don't.
Students don't have to do anything.
They just sit in class all day firing abuse at whichever poor mug is standing in front of them in the classroom. Teachers are then blamed for that too.

I've seen teachers lugging home sport holdalls full of notebooks each day for deep marking. Not that there's anything in the notebooks to mark - but teachers are expected to be magicians anyway.

And Ofsted is not there to check students' behaviour - it's there to harass teachers.
Did you know that the inspector linked to Ruth Perry's death is still out there inspecting schools?

Just left primary teaching after 20 years in. It's only going to get worse in education.

Alan Derry

https://news.sky.com/story/ruth-perry-inquest-headteacher-who-took-own-life-described-ofsted-inspector-as-bully-13019088

@Tuftykitten I wasn't doubting you. I'm genuinely interested in your experience. I have done some tutoring of undergraduates & have seen the entitlement - they expect to pass regardless of what they do / don't do. It's just sad to see that school students who actually want to achieve seem to be under huge amounts of pressure & suffering mental health problems too.

I’m a secondary teacher. I have a “mock-sted” tomorrow despite us having Ofsted in less than a year ago so I am spending today prepping answers to the departmental deep dive. Being in the classroom is great - the feeling of being inadequate not so.

@Avaricii
I think what people mean is that there are lovely kids in every school who are genuinely delightful and want to learn. That is what people miss. Unfortunately there are a large number of kids who are the absolute opposite and will make it their mission to make your life hell. When I started teaching this sort of behaviour wasn’t tolerated but in recent years consequences have largely been removed from most schools meaning the problem has got worse. I have been assaulted and I know many others have been too. The verbal abuse is off the scale too.
I do think you’re being slightly naive in thinking you can make maths relevant to those who want to be YouTubers. Those of us who have taught or have been teaching for years try to this every lesson with little effect. It’s drummed into you during teacher training.
When you say that you are happy to work until 6 because you have a long commute at the moment, I think you have misunderstood just how much extra work is involved. My typical day last year involved getting to school at 7:30, leaving at 6. Working again when I got home from 7-11pm plus working at the weekend.
In terms of unpleasant senior management , I get your point about these people being in every occupation. However, I’ve not experienced this to the level I saw in teaching elsewhere. It’s something you have to experience to fully appreciate.

It's for you then. Maths teachers are in short supply so you'll easily get a training post. I genuinely hope that you find it a rewarding and fulfilling profession. In five years time you can add positive things about teaching against the tide of exhausted teachers on Mumsnet.

"And there is really no time to make maths interesting and fun within the curriculum now?"

Maths can always be made interesting and fun. With the More Able you can stretch them by introducing them to UKMT style problems. For others, including those at the functional-skills end of the spectrum, they can be inspired through real-world examples that you are free to weave into your teaching.

Listen to the segment on "Core Maths" in this episode of the Money Programme to hear how students can be inspired at 16+: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001tpwb

You'll get a job, no problem.
Huge teacher shortage now and there's reasons for that, none of which are good.
Schools are always looking for NQTs.
Cheap, fresh meat - who they can work to the bone.

Enjoy the meat grinder.

I know I don't know. That's why I asked
But what happens if you say no?

No, secondary. Humanities.

Teaching is definitely harder than most jobs! I worked P/T as a teacher and found it way, way more exhausting than working F/T in a fast-paced office environment. You underestimate the mental exhaustion of it and the long hours. We were expected to be in school by 7am; our lunchbreak was often taken up with lunch duties, meetings, preparation. I’d get home from work and have hours of work to do in the evening.

But the real killer is the constant interference from SLT, academy trusts and the government. This interference includes a degree of micro-management you can only imagine in your worst nightmares. It’s relentless. Nobody would put up with anything like that amount in an office job. It’s exhausting and soul-destroying.

I love teaching but until teachers are allowed to teach and not overburdened with crap, then it will never be a good job.

But also people who just add " it's horrific" please don't contribute. I asked why it's worse than any other stressful job? And I've had loads of good answers
But if you are just going to say "welcome to the meat grinder" or "it's only going to get worse" you're not helping me here!
I am being put off to a certain extent (but that's what I asked for!) Bur not by the dramatics- by the specifics facts and experiences. I mean, I am thinking of being a maths teacher for a reason!

I was pushed down the stairs whilst I was pregnant and still expected to teach the pupil. I must have done something to provoke him - SLT are toxic.

Edit to say choose your school carefully. I haven’t experience physical violence or intimidation is my current school. The toxic SLT still exists though!

Secondary Maths teacher here!
You’ll love it. Don’t stress about A-level, no decent HoD would dream of putting an NQT in front of an A-level class until they are proven. There is loads of free in service CPD available from AMSP etc to improve your confidence should you wish to spread your wings later on.
My advice is train via SCITT on the job with an in school training provider (our local one is Lion Alliance) and choose your school carefully.

My DH is a Deputy Head in a large secondary and I’m a head of a professional services department in a local authority. Our pay is roughly equivalent. At certain times of the year his job is absolutely more stressful than mine and at others mine is way worse. I think there’s become a bit of a narrative where teachers feel they’re the most stressed and put upon workers in their pay band and I don’t actually think that’s the case. That’s not to say it’s not a really hard and stressful job - I couldn’t do it - but it’s not the only hard and stressful job and I think there is a lot of grass is greener thinking going on.

The big difference is actually flexibility. DH has none, I have quite a lot, so I can do some days WFH, some days starting later or finishing earlier to accommodate drop off and pick up at school and wraparound.

I think you should get some experience in a few different schools and see what you think.

I've been teaching 15 years and enjoy it on the whole. I career changed in my late 30s.

I'm a 6th form specialist though. That has its down sides but students have generally chosen the subject.

To succeed in teaching you need: excellent organisational skills; high energy; optimism; bullet proof physical and mental health; supportive home (DH did all the cooking etc while I was training and did all the out of the way child stuff like chickenpox - do you have a partner? How flexible is their job?) Plus the ability to learn fast and go in learning. There's no budget or time allowance for subject CPD. You're mostly expected to teach yourself what you need to know. You need to have patience with management fads and being managed by people with no training to do it.

There's also a big element of luck - you need a normal head teacher and reasonable SLT and they are rather rare!

I'm not a Maths teacher but I've observed Maths teachers stick together so the character of the Maths HOD will also be crucial.

One of the problems is it's hard to find out what the Head/SLT/HOD never mind the kids and parents) are like before committing. You might have to switch school a few times to find one. Took me 4 goes!

I'm not sure there are many other "professional" jobs where you sometimes get treated like a naughty school child!

@Avaricii My school was established as a free school a few years ago and is filled with mostly positive, enthusiastic teachers, especially at SLT. It is Outstanding in all areas. It has nevertheless been through the mill over the last few years due to underfunding. Major concerns are:

• More children with complex SEN and pastoral needs which are difficult to meet with the resources available (our school has a good rep for these areas so attracts a relatively high proportion).
• The up-step in the tutoring industry (including the National Tutoring Programme) has reduced the number of cover teachers available and their cost. This increases the pressure on other staff to provide cover for each other so impacts their workload.
• Drop in the number of applicants for some teaching posts (including maths) making them hard to fill.

These issues can be addressed by increased funding. Hopefully the new Government can make a difference. And people like you can make a difference too.