To think cannabis isn't harmless?

[freedom26]

Cannabis seems to be normalised and many people don't even consider it a drug. My brother-in-law is a psychiatrist and he says that he fears legalization in the UK as it would increase

In his 20 years of work, he says that the patients who only used, alcohol, or prescription drugs had a far better outcome for their mental health than those who smoked cannabis regularly (apart from the addiction) who regularly visited after suffering a psychotic break.

Cannabis is obviously far safer in terms of physical health than other drugs and not everyone gets the bad effects, but people seem to downplay the potential harm it can cause if you're predisposed to psychosis/schizophrenia.

If I think back my childhood, I went to a high achieving private school were many people I knew dabble in all sorts of drugs and it seemed that even among the excessive users, those who used cannabis and didn't develop psychosis still fared worse in terms of academic achievement than those dependent on alcohol who usually reduced their drinking as they age.

InAnotherUniverse
So it is a gateway drug, anecdotally

This is way too simplistic

I dunno. Sometimes the simple answer is the right one. If it looks like shit and smells like shit it probably is...

Virtually everyone I know who has used to regularly over the years (from mid-90s onwards) now has some kind of issues, mostly serious mental health related.

I grew up in a village and several of the boys started regularly smoking cannabis around the age of 14/15. By the time they were 17/18 most of them had changed beyond recognition and were suffering various mental health issues. One developed crippling OCD, to the point he couldn't leave the house unaided because he'd spent the whole day going through his 'before I leave the house routine' of checking light switches, oven knobs etc.

One developed issues where he couldn't properly control his bladder, and then think it was hilarious that he'd wet himself in public. He was eventually sectioned.

One is now in prison for attempted murder. He developed psychosis after prolonged drug use (mostly cannabis).

Another has severe anxiety & depression, and has been on medication for decades.

DH used to occasionally smoke it but the change in his personality when he did was horrible (suspicious, depressed, angry) etc. I gave him an ultimation, he stopped snd hasn't touched it for over 20 years.

I hate the stuff & truly believe it's life destroying.

@PlopSofa
Here's www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/balanced/202312/cannabis-adhd-and-quality-of-life

Fair points. I don’t believe enough is being done on the alcohol front though - although I may be biased, having seen too many deaths in fairly young people directly from alcohol. I do believe that there are many people who would benefit from cannabis being available on the NHS. If isn’t always harmful to public health, I know one young man with epilepsy who’s quality of life has drastically improved since he’s been prescribed cannabis oil. A woman in her 40s I know of has severe neuropathic pain after a bad car accident, and was housebound before being prescribed cannabis oil. Both these people are severely disabled and are having to pay for private prescriptions out of their benefits as they’re unable to work.

So, if we’re not going to legalise it completely, how about we at the very least make it available to those who will (and do) genuinely benefit from it?

Our son got into cannabis smoking at Uni and it has totally ruined his life, and severely affected his relationship with us and his DS. We have had stand up arguments with him for over 20 years, but everytime we stressed the dangers, he came up with articles showing how safe it is. It all came crashing down 3 years ago when he had severe psychotic episodes, accusing us of running a conspiracy with MI5 and the police. He attacked DH in the kitchen, which resulted in the police being called, but they just told him to leave. He got a flat through a friend, but a year later he hadn't paid rent so the landlord and his friend ended up getting into A and E where he was sectioned and put in a secure hospital, where he refused to see us. He was treated with anti psychotic drugs, and as he had nowhere to live, he was given a council flat and benefits to support himself. He had started talking to us by then, so we helped in move in and decorate with paint supplied by a gov grant. He has stabilised over the last 18 months, has managed to hold down a minimum wage job, but still on medication, which flattens his personality. We have to be very careful what we discuss so we don't trigger him. He is depressed, has no future, no relationship, and threatens to walk out of his job every time there is a problem. We are on a few facebook groups for parents and carers for people with Mental Health problems, and if anything, our experience is minor compared to what others have gone through. Cannabis destroys lives, our politicians have brought this on us by wishy washy attitudes to drug abuse, probably because them and their families have been involved, and they got away with it.

So sorry for your loss! Such a young age. Was this directly related to smoking weed?

I would think anybody working in this field is well aware of both the benefits and limitations of prescription drugs in the treatment of mental health due to the vast amount of literature on the matter.

The idea that a psychiatrist would just think prescription drugs = good and illegal drugs = bad is laughable.

Problem with conditions like schizophrenia / Bipolar is finding alternative treatments. The drugs are not great and have many side effects but it's not like there are lots of other treatments for those suffering from psychosis.

And just because the prescription drugs have their problems doesn't mean we should say cannabis is safe. From my reading/research I would be very wary of condoning the use cannabis today despite the fact I rather liked it when younger. It's a very different drug today to what I was putting in joints in the 1980's.

A lot of what is sold has been specifically cultivated to have a sky-high THC content, which is going to make the creation/exacerbation of mental illness for more likely.

And many of us have no problem with taxation going even further to disincentivise people from consuming harmful stuff.

Walk into any supermarket. The volume of sugar filled, over processed crap is horrifying. Look at levels of obesity and obesity related illnesses. Look at the impact on health services. You're right: many things consumed to excess, or in some cases, in any quantity, are harmful.

I guess the big difference with things like smoking and vaping is the anti social nature of it. I can consume a donut in the street and it won't affect you at all. If I light up a fag, smoke a spliff or use a vape, I'm inflicting a really unpleasant odor on you.

The other thing about any kind of smoking or vaping is there's clear evidence that children of parents who smoke, are more likely to become smokers themselves. What's really weird is that the smokers I do know (admittedly not many because most people have more sense now) have said they hope their own kids don't take it up!

Personally I think anyone who adds to the govt coffers in tax through smoking is nuts anyway. Just from a financial point of view it would put me off.

This !

I don't like threads like this. I have a medical condition that cannabis massively improves; I don't appreciate its use as a medicine being treated as irrelevant.

It's all very well to condemn cannabis but all that is happening is that the UK is now overrun with shit cannabis.

I am lucky enough to know someone who can get hold of illegally imported US weed, which comes in a proper packet with medical warnings. It's significantly better than UK crap, with much less likelihood of causing paranoia and jitters.

It's like Prohibition. Do you want people drinking alcohol that has been brewed sensibly or do you want everyone drinking moonshine? Because they're not going to stop drinking. And people will not stop smoking.

This

Even in the 90s I was smoking a wee bit of what my friend grew which was not at all the same thing as my brother & his friends were buying - of his group 3/8 developed life changing mental health issues.

I suspect that adolescent brains are more susceptible to the damage it can do.

It has devastating effects on those with fragile brain chemistry & no one knows which person is which.

Createausername1970 · Today 10:41
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My understanding is that it can be harmless for some people but have devestating consequences for others.

Nothing that involves sucking smoke into your lungs is harmless.

@SilviaDaisyPouncer 👏

"In his 20 years of work, he says that the patients who only used, alcohol, or prescription drugs had a far better outcome for their mental health than those who smoked cannabis regularly (apart from the addiction) who regularly visited after suffering a psychotic break."

Also anecdotally, in my 40odd years on earth the only people I know of who died young (non-accidentally) were alcoholics, either as a direct result of alcoholism or connected illnesses/diseases

I know more weed smokers than I can count on 20 fingers - all absolutely fine afaik

Plus, don't underestimate the effect of alcoholism on others mental health. Alcoholism is 100% harmful and risky to everyone. Smoking weed isn't. Said by someone who used to get smacked around regularly by an alcoholic, funnily enough my weed smoking ex was far too chill to ever want to lay a finger on me.

Compare the damage to society by alcohol v cannabis. Yet alcohol is not demonised.

But you don’t need to smoke it. So by your logic would it then be ok?

I teach teenagers who have the impression that cannabis is perfectly safe. Research suggests that this is not the case especially for developing teenage brains.

I also am aware of much research where cannabis can be beneficial for many health conditions. However, just because of this doesn't mean we should let youngsters think it is perfectly safe to take cannabis. The links with psychosis are well established and although many may be fine, a significant number won't. Those working in mental health have been talking about his for some time.

I'm not sure about making it illegal again as I think it causes more issues than it solves, but we do need to get the message out that cannabis is not safe.

I don't like being stoned but I very much appreciate living in a cannabis-tolerant country. I'm able to grow one or two plants of a CBD-rich strain to make my own gummies and oils.

The relief from menopause-caused pain and insomnia has been life-changing for me.

OP, is it possible that a psychiatrist is likely to see a lot of people struggling with cannabis (and other drugs) and perhaps draw conclusions that aren't representative of broader use?

I think people are very naive about the effects of cannabis, particularly skunk. I know people who now suffer severe mental health problems such as schizophrenia, agoraphobia and psychosis from smoking weed.

Surely it's the same as being a heroin mainliner? Medicine uses drugs like morphine intravenously for surgical procedures and it is thoroughly appropriate for short-term pain relief but not okay to take home and shoot up every weekend for fun.

@Megifer no one has said alcoholism isn't harmful to oneself and others. I've no time for anyone who drinks in a way which impacts on others - directly or indirectly, eg through impact on health services. And actually that means people should really drink very very little if at all as guideline levels for 'safe' levels of alcohol are very low.

I would have no issue with someone choosing to consume alcohol provided it doesn't impact on others. I have no problem with people using gummies.

Just don't smoke or vape (tobacco or any other shit) in public places because it smells fucking rank. And there are no safe levels of smoking anyway.

I’d love to see it legalised for medical use and controlled. I believe in the studies of the amount of harm by drugs cannabis and mdma were shown to be the lowest harm substances with heroin and alcohol the most harmful.

Whereas you might not be at risk of overdosing on cannabis and the dangers of heroin and alcohol are higher. But the very recent studies on brain development in teens the the link with schizophrenia and psychosis are very worrying.
I'll go find the research links in a bit as have them saved on my computer.
I just think we need to challenge the current way of thinking that cannabis is harmless.
Bearing in mind that I've taught kids that smoke cannabis every day and will readily admit this and don't see the danger.

I would also like to see it regulated for medical use too though !