To think cannabis isn't harmless?

[freedom26]

Cannabis seems to be normalised and many people don't even consider it a drug. My brother-in-law is a psychiatrist and he says that he fears legalization in the UK as it would increase

In his 20 years of work, he says that the patients who only used, alcohol, or prescription drugs had a far better outcome for their mental health than those who smoked cannabis regularly (apart from the addiction) who regularly visited after suffering a psychotic break.

Cannabis is obviously far safer in terms of physical health than other drugs and not everyone gets the bad effects, but people seem to downplay the potential harm it can cause if you're predisposed to psychosis/schizophrenia.

If I think back my childhood, I went to a high achieving private school were many people I knew dabble in all sorts of drugs and it seemed that even among the excessive users, those who used cannabis and didn't develop psychosis still fared worse in terms of academic achievement than those dependent on alcohol who usually reduced their drinking as they age.

I wonder if you could provide evidence for that statement - because the Netherlands does not have a "soft approach" to drugs. All drugs, hard or soft, are still illegal in the Netherlands, and those found selling, producing, dealing or in possession of drugs are liable to prosecution. There is a limited toleration of the sale of soft drugs in cafes - it is still illegal to sell them, but their prosecutors do not prosecute such cases as a rule, and the same applies to people with small amounts of soft drungs for personal use (as in the UK).

The reason for the Netherlands problem is the fact that it is a major multi- continental transportation hub for both land and sea - a gateway in effect. With exactly the same problems relating to drug related crime as we have and for pretty much the same reasons.

There is nowhere in the world where prohibition has worked. Nowhere.

https://www.government.nl/topics/drugs/difference-between-hard-and-soft-drugs

Also, the places in the US that have legalised cannabis are absolutely disgusting to visit. You can’t walk through NY or Chicago without the horrible stench.

There seem to be plenty of doctors who will prescribe it even though the research is poor.

It's good for toothaches and easier to source than an NHS dentist.😀

https://www.colorado.edu/today/2023/01/24/gateway-drug-no-more-study-shows-legalizing-recreational-cannabis-does-not-increase

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10176789/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31927413/

plenty of research evidence shows that legalising cannabis does not increase cannabis use disorder, mental health conditions or other substance use disorder. The final article linked here concludes that although use of recreational cannabis is higher in states where it is legal, it is not possible to conclude that this is a result of legalisation rather than existing social trends. It's logical that states where there is an existing higher level of use would be more receptive to legalisation arguments!

One issue that does appear to be a genuine problem is increasing instances of driving under the influence of cannabis. Though again we need to know if this is happening more often or just being tested for more often.

Yep.

This can't be disputed. We know there is a strong link between cannabis and psychosis. We also know that people with psychosis who smoke cannabis are more likely to have poor treatment outcomes.

You are correct

I self medicate with Marijuana. Never felt the urge, or need, to use anything more drugwise. I do not drink alcohol anymore so I suppose I replaced one addiction with another but it works for Me.

It might be your opinion that it's a shitty substance, but many don't agree with you. I think hyaluronic acid facial fillers and cheap ultra processed pork products are shitty substances but I'm not advocating that other people who don't agree with me shouldn't be allowed to consume them.

Well Said
Bravo

Of course it would increase use. It gives the message that it's OK, especially to younger generations growing up with that message it would hugely increase use.

Yes, but not exclusively

There are also "bongs" where water is needed (I haven't ever used one) and you push something down and it creates vape/smoke that is then inhaled.
Hash Cakes are another, and Hash Tea etc . Again, I have never done this but have had the odd hash cake or two that others made.

I don't understand why people keep saying this. The research on it is really well established now, it significantly increases the chance of developing psychosis.

The harm comes not necessarily from the drug itself, like any drug it can can cause harm as well as benefits depending how it's used. If it were prescribed and it's use controlled, harm would be minimised.

The main reason I think you're unreasonable is assuming as a psychiatrist, your brother in law should have the last word. He my well be an excellent psychiatrist and is so he sees the benefits of prescription drugs and the negatives of illegal drugs. These two extremes do not reflect reality so while his exprt opinion is valuable, it's particular snapshot. Psychiatry itself is beneficial to many, but it has also done untold harm and continues to do so, particularly to women. No-one person or profession can be held up as the arbiter of truth.

That may be so but not Everyone goes onto harder stuff

Almost 60 years old Me, and never had nothing more than marijuana. Friends did, so I do get your point there. I think it depends on ones personality and some, sadly, seem to have addictive personalities.

I could throw some articles at you that say they do increase, because they appear regularly in my local media, and while I normally out of politeness would, I am not going to today, you can look for them if you are really keen. I've lived through the legalization of cannabis where I live, and the increasing hospital admissions and usage, which have been far and beyond what I thought might happen beforehand. I went from being supportive of decriminalization and neutral about legalization, to being seriously against both.

Not being able to tell if it's cultural change rather than the change in law is a foolish statement though I am sure that's what the researchers really thought - laws are a part of culture and contribute to, as well as being responsive to, cultural values.

I was mainly talking about medicinal herbs in general. I know a lot of people think they are somehow safer than pills, but in many cases they are not.

I dont know much about cannabis farming (I thought it was illegal here?) but I guess if you have a cultivated plant and the conditions are constant then its probs safer.

It’s interesting the number of posts that start out by saying some version of it’s not harmless, therefore shouldn’t be allowed. I find this odd, because basically nothing is harmless. We should have a level playing field across substances imo, so we must immediately ban alcohol (after all, I thought of 5 people in under 2 minutes that I knew personally who died young directly through alcohol misuse, including 2 close family members). Of course, any form of nicotine’s got to go, much of the food we eat needs to be banned too… goodbye chocolate, crisps and sweets… 😩

Doesn't it incapacitate you to drive, much longer than a drink would?

Also, I read a news article this morning about cannabis users being hospitalised with a side effect that has apparently doubled in numbers recently.

So it is a gateway drug, anecdotally

I hope they don't legalise it because the stench is absolutely horrendous. I cannot stand it when you walk somewhere and it wafts around you.

Yes and these things are being actively reduced. Sugar taxes. Cigarettes are on their way out with vapes replacements etc. The dangers of alcohol are widely publicised, lots of youngsters now abstaining, Dry January campaigns etc. Why actively try to introduce something as harmful to public health as cannabis to a wider audience?

What side effect?

Only dopes smoke dope

This is way too simplistic

@InkHeart2024 apologies for daily fail but it was elsewhere and there is also the report. Interestingly its increase is linked to legalisation...

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-14078775/amp/warning-weed-smokers-cannabinoid-hyperemesis-syndrome.html

jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2824833